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Old 2009-02-17, 12:31   Link #1041
chibidoro
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But dont you remember that in episode 1
Spoiler for Umineko chessboard:
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Old 2009-02-17, 12:47   Link #1042
Klashikari
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No, the chessboard refers only to a kakera where everything happen.
The stage, so to speak. So the rokkenjima of the first episode is the first chessboard.
The second chessboard is in episode 2, with different murders etc.

Basically, a chessboard is called a "game" by beato, which is its literal meaning here.
There is only 1 chessboard at a given time, but for all intent and purpose, they say "next" etc, since they reset it.
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Old 2009-02-17, 12:47   Link #1043
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Quote:
Frederica talked to someone (Presumably Battler, cause Beatrice went to get a new board) in that ??? room, explaining the way to defeat Beatrice telling him that she will give him some of his power, and in episode 2 Lambdadelta told that same person (when both Beatrice and Bernkastel went away) to get back on his feet, and also, didnt you say just earlier that there was only one chessboard, and werent Frederica and LD invited as supporters (Frederica for Battler, and LD for Beatrice)?
We're not sure if she really talked to Battler, she might've been talking to the player (you/me). Lambdadelta also might've been talking to Rosa, not Battler. Bern and LD are not part of the regular game.

Quote:
So to sum it all up, would you please say how many chessboards there really are, what area do they have, which pieces and what is the victory condition?
First game. Game between Battler and Beatrice. Objective: prove or disapprove the existence of witches. Virgilia plays on Battler's side (for a while), Ronove plays for Beatrice's side, but the real player are only Battler and Beatrice.

Second game. Game between Bernkastel and Beatrice. Beatrice's objective is to make Battler lose and accept witches, Bern's objective is to prevent that. Lambda supports Beatrice's side. This second game is related to the first game, so Bernkastel can use her pieces there (Ange) to help Battler win and thus win her own game with Beatrice. Bern's victory condition's here are not as clear as in the first chessboard (think Higurashi, which was also a game between Bern and LD).

Quote:
So the first Battler-Beato chessboard has the Rokkenjima area (purgatorio (meta-land) not included, nor anything after the golden land door gets opened (after the 10th twilight), 18 characters and Battlers victory condition is to solve the murders so that he may deny Beato in the meta-world.

what about the 2nd chess game (between Beato and Bern) does it also include purgatorio, is Beatrice herself a piece in the game or ange, is the victory condition not for Battler to solve the crimes as in the first but to see if he will deny the witch or accept her in the meta-world?
For the second game, Beatrice herself is her own piece and Ange is Bern's piece so to speak.
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Old 2009-02-17, 13:05   Link #1044
chibidoro
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Thank you very much, I had similar thought myself, so the first game is Battler vs. Beatrice, she does crimes, he has to prove a human did them and deny her in the meta-world (here, Battler is his own piece and Beatrice can move herself from meta to game), if he denies her in the meta-world, then Frederica wins in her Bernkastel vs. Beato game of which the meta-world is part of (but as you said, like in Higurashi, maybe that is not the real victory condition).

And for Beatrice, in the first game she has to pin him down with those crimes so much that he accepts her in the meta world (outside the 1st game, inside the 2nd) and then she can win in the Bernkastel vs. Beato game.
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Old 2009-02-17, 15:41   Link #1045
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All the talk of the Meta-World is getting me excited to think about how they will do it in the anime.
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Old 2009-02-17, 15:58   Link #1046
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All this talk aobut the game in general makes me be worried about how the anime will fare in the west. The expectations on the TV series are too high for its own good
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Old 2009-02-17, 17:27   Link #1047
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Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
Spoiler for replies:
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-02-17, 17:39   Link #1048
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Spoiler for Episode 2:




Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysjd89 View Post
Some of those motives are very shaky, really. Obviously, everyone has atleast one motive of "money".

Natsuhi: I don't think she despises most of the family like you have said. She obviously despises Eva, but I don't think she despises George, though I think she does hold some hatred for him. As for the rest, she certainly doesn't act like she hates them, and acts worried for them on many occasions.
I agree. I don't think she despise the family, besides Eva. She seems to be in good terms with Rosa, for exemple (when she offers the tea for her headaches).

And she acts somehow like a mother whith the other children. I remember this touching scene, after the incident in the boiler room in ep1 when she held Battler in her arms, saying she will protect all the children.

Last edited by Chadauw; 2009-02-17 at 17:59.
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Old 2009-02-17, 17:54   Link #1049
Matrim
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Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler for ep.3:
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Old 2009-02-17, 18:05   Link #1050
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Spoiler for ep.3:
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-02-17, 18:10   Link #1051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
Spoiler for ep.3:
I don't think it didn't happen, I think it happened, but just not the way it is shown.

Beato can definitely lie (and I think even her red text should be put in doubt), but I don't think she'd find it fun if everything was a setup. If everything is a lie, then what's the point? It would be easy for Battler to say, "It's all a lie, you're making this up just so I can't win. State in red that everything shown happened truthfully." What makes the game interesting (both for us and Beato) is finding was is true and what is not.
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Old 2009-02-17, 18:20   Link #1052
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I meant that parts of the story didn't happen, not that all of it was a big lie. So the result is the same - Rosa is late and carries some candy with her but not because she had a guilty concience in regards to Maria.
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Old 2009-02-17, 20:18   Link #1053
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Okay, we know a lot of scenes can easily be red herrings, such as the possible Natsuhi and Kinzo scene in episode 1. But that means we must question how far does Beatrice's red text goes?

Spoiler for Beatrice's Domain:


EDIT:

Spoiler for Shannon Ep 1 and Ep 2:
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Old 2009-02-17, 20:22   Link #1054
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Quote:
But that means we must question how far does Beatrice's red text goes?
Personally, I would doubt other characters' use of red text, such as Ronove and Eva-Beatrice. Beatrice might also word things in a certain way as to avoid being discovered. (e.g. saying such and such are alive, instead of such and such are dead.)
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Old 2009-02-17, 21:09   Link #1055
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Spoiler for Shannon Ep 1 and Ep 2:
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-02-17, 21:37   Link #1056
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An earlier theory on Ange's sickness said

Spoiler for ideas:


Spoiler for other ideas (EP 1-3):


Spoiler for Connecting theories:
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Old 2009-02-17, 21:56   Link #1057
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Quote:
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An earlier theory on Ange's sickness said
Spoiler for other ideas (EP 1-3):
There's a theory that there might be a time limit on Beatrice's red text. A character might've still be alive until Beatrice stated he/she was dead.

Quote:
Spoiler for Connecting theories:
She stated that Kinzo was dead.
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Old 2009-02-17, 22:06   Link #1058
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Spoiler for Kinzo/Episode 1 spoilers:
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Old 2009-02-17, 22:07   Link #1059
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Originally Posted by Avisch View Post
An earlier theory on Ange's sickness said

Spoiler for ideas:
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-02-17, 22:22   Link #1060
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Quote:
Spoiler for maho's spoilers:
Spoiler for response:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Haruyan View Post

She stated that Kinzo was dead.
Are you getting confused by my post? Otherwise I'm alittle confused by your response.

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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Spoiler for Kinzo/Episode 1 spoilers:
First off Marion. You have a very nice Rosa avatar.
Spoiler for Theories:
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