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Old 2013-07-27, 14:43   Link #1921
AuraTwilight
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I think you're onto something. Kyrie is an intelligent person, and took a very select group of people with her. Getting food might be a pretense.
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Old 2013-07-27, 14:46   Link #1922
Kealym
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So ... uh ... just keep reading.
That's all.
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Old 2013-07-27, 14:49   Link #1923
Sauzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
I think you're onto something. Kyrie is an intelligent person, and took a very select group of people with her. Getting food might be a pretense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
So ... uh ... just keep reading.
That's all.
Yeah, it's just that. That move seems so insensible.

Even if one or two people want to go for whatever reason and and give an excuse: "we're off to get some food", everyone else should've stopped them. By force if necessary. Not be like "uh, I guess some food would be nice".
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Old 2013-07-27, 19:28   Link #1924
Sauzer
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Finished ep3. Just a couple of quick thoughts for now.

1. Lambdadelta is not a witch. She's a friggin' demon!

2. Eva: "Hey, stupid Rosa! Why are you so stupid?"
Good to know nothing changed since ep2

3. So this is where the "witness testimony" comes from, eh? Damn.. That was indeed a pretty huge hint.

4. I guess Beatrice just used a red truth that specificly targeted Evatrice's red-web and thus denied her existance as a witch. The rest was a show.

5. "In short, at the time of the crime, only Nanjo and Jessica were in the servants' room"

Nanjo could be standing at the door and the killer be right outside the servants room. And if I'm not mistaken Evatrice does not say specificly "At the moment Nanjo is being killed only Nanjo, Eva, Battler and Jessica are alive". It was just a laundry list of people who were alive or dead at some point after Nanjo died.

Also I feel so stupid for not considering orangutans sooner
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Old 2013-07-27, 21:29   Link #1925
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Quote:
4. I guess Beatrice just used a red truth that specificly targeted Evatrice's red-web and thus denied her existance as a witch. The rest was a show.
Battler heard no Red Truth, nor did one appear on the screen. >:3

Quote:
And if I'm not mistaken Evatrice does not say specificly "At the moment Nanjo is being killed only Nanjo, Eva, Battler and Jessica are alive". It was just a laundry list of people who were alive or dead at some point after Nanjo died.
But she did one better; she listed everyone on the island who was dead. Everyone she listed is dead, and the remaining people had no ability to kill Nanjo. So who killed him? There is no 19th person on Rokkenjima.
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Old 2013-07-28, 04:24   Link #1926
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Battler heard no Red Truth, nor did one appear on the screen. >:3
Well I guess if Evatrice was that much of a pawn, Beato had the ability to create and erase her at will.

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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
But she did one better; she listed everyone on the island who was dead. Everyone she listed is dead, and the remaining people had no ability to kill Nanjo. So who killed him? There is no 19th person on Rokkenjima.
Yeah that's the thing. She listed everyone on the island who was dead including Nanjo. She does not say when they died or more specificly at what moment that list is in effect.
All I know is that list is true after Nanjo is dead. Maybe it's an hour after Nanjo has been killed. That's what I mean.

One has to be a lawyer with these red truths.

I was also going to argue about definition of murder and say it was a homicide by Jessica, because of:
Ushiromiya Jessica has not committed murder
She was not involved with Nanjo's murder

Her eyes were completely blocked.
It's impossible for her to carry out a murder like that

Neither Eva nor Battler killed Nanjo, nor were they involved


However that is put to rest by The culprit who killed Nanjo was neither Battler nor Eva nor Jessica
Nanjo was killed by another person

Spoiler for The rest of impressions:

Last edited by Sauzer; 2013-07-28 at 06:21.
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Old 2013-07-28, 06:18   Link #1927
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Where do I find the music from this fight? What's it's even called?
Fake Red Shoes. Also, if you're disappointed with the anime version of that scene, you may like this.
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Old 2013-07-28, 06:29   Link #1928
Sauzer
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Originally Posted by Drifloon View Post
Fake Red Shoes. Also, if you're disappointed with the anime version of that scene, you may like this.
Thanks a lot!

As for the video. If I were nitpicking I'd say it's not as fast-paced as it should be. Otherwise pretty darn good )
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Old 2013-07-28, 06:54   Link #1929
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Thanks a lot!

As for the video. If I were nitpicking I'd say it's not as fast-paced as it should be. Otherwise pretty darn good )
Actually you can listen to the song directly from the Umineko folder. In the BGM folder it is the track called

あかいくつ偽.ogg

Enjoy!
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Old 2013-07-28, 07:50   Link #1930
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Originally Posted by Sauzer View Post
"Tragic accident"
How the hell did Eva manage to twist a mass-murder into "tragic accident"?
Even if she bribed all the police, lawyers and judged that went after her, how does someone turn killings into an accident? What the hell did she do to the bodies for it to not be seen as a murder? Only Jessica is missing in the end.
Actually, EP1 has a BIG hint on that. It's comparatively short and comes at a point where many people are prone to let their attention slide.
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Old 2013-07-28, 08:21   Link #1931
Sauzer
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Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Actually, EP1 has a BIG hint on that. It's comparatively short and comes at a point where many people are prone to let their attention slide.
Hm if it was during one of those long discussions comparing Beatrice to Santa-Clauss or how Maria's severe obsession with witches is completly normal for a girl her age, yeah probably I'd miss it.
Oh, well I can't go back reading the whole first ep1 searching for a specific hint, just because I was told there is one. That's just not playing fair. If I missed it on the first time, that's my own fault.
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Old 2013-07-28, 09:27   Link #1932
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Originally Posted by Sauzer View Post
Hm if it was during one of those long discussions comparing Beatrice to Santa-Clauss or how Maria's severe obsession with witches is completly normal for a girl her age, yeah probably I'd miss it.
Oh, well I can't go back reading the whole first ep1 searching for a specific hint, just because I was told there is one. That's just not playing fair. If I missed it on the first time, that's my own fault.
I wouldn't call it hidden. It's just inserted at a point where attention automatically goes down, because normally not much VITAL information is supposed to be put there.
If you wanna know clearly where to look, it's
Spoiler for EP1:
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Old 2013-07-28, 12:49   Link #1933
Sauzer
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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
Actually you can listen to the song directly from the Umineko folder. In the BGM folder it is the track called

あかいくつ偽.ogg

Enjoy!
Found it! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
I wouldn't call it hidden. It's just inserted at a point where attention automatically goes down, because normally not much VITAL information is supposed to be put there.
If you wanna know clearly where to look, it's
Spoiler for EP1:
I wanted to say "nope". But damn "quote" renders spoiler tags useless

Spoiler for more thoughts:

Last edited by Sauzer; 2013-07-28 at 13:04.
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Old 2013-07-28, 13:13   Link #1934
GreyZone
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Battler observed Eva closely during that time, so she couldn't have killed Kyrie at that point without Battler noticeing.
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Old 2013-07-28, 13:19   Link #1935
Sauzer
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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
Battler observed Eva closely during that time, so she couldn't have killed Kyrie at that point without Battler noticeing.
But that was when Evatrice was talking about Nanjo's death. After that this red truth becomes obsolete - kill Kyrie, turn around, kill Battler.

Ah.. unless
So committing a crime was impossible for her.
would be talking about any crime. rrrr

edit: okok. Kyrie dies from her own wounds after killing Nanjo... Though all together that's pushing the boundries of desperate.
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Old 2013-07-28, 23:47   Link #1936
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Originally Posted by Sauzer View Post
Ah.. unless
So committing a crime was impossible for her.
would be talking about any crime. rrrr
No, the series of reds you're talking about are referring specifically to the approximate time of Nanjo's murder, because part of Eva's alibi are lines like After Jessica was injured, Eva was always under Battler's supervision., and Eva was with you the whole time..

Battler obviously wasn't in Eva's company for the ENTIRE time, so it stands to reason (as you probably already have), that certain statements are context sensitive. Don't think of it as a 'trick', so much as just the Witch being able to talk about specific situations.

Also, just so it's not confusing, I believe the red that Greyzone is probably pulling that red from memory, because in the text, it reads as "He wasn't forging an alibi for her, and he took the possibility that she was the culprit into account, watching her actions carefully. No chance existed for her to do anything suspicious!", so, Kyrie was not mentioned, specifically, in that regard.
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Old 2013-07-29, 02:08   Link #1937
GreyZone
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No, the series of reds you're talking about are referring specifically to the approximate time of Nanjo's murder, because part of Eva's alibi are lines like After Jessica was injured, Eva was always under Battler's supervision., and Eva was with you the whole time..

Battler obviously wasn't in Eva's company for the ENTIRE time, so it stands to reason (as you probably already have), that certain statements are context sensitive. Don't think of it as a 'trick', so much as just the Witch being able to talk about specific situations.

Also, just so it's not confusing, I believe the red that Greyzone is probably pulling that red from memory, because in the text, it reads as "He wasn't forging an alibi for her, and he took the possibility that she was the culprit into account, watching her actions carefully. No chance existed for her to do anything suspicious!", so, Kyrie was not mentioned, specifically, in that regard.
Yes, you are correct, so don't bother with my red. However, if I remember correctly, right after they found Nanjo's corpse, it was proclaimed in red that Kyrie is dead. Also there was no indication at all that Battler left Eva's side, until she shot him.
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Old 2013-07-29, 02:23   Link #1938
Sauzer
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Yes, you are correct, so don't bother with my red. However, if I remember correctly, right after they found Nanjo's corpse, it was proclaimed in red that Kyrie is dead. Also there was no indication at all that Battler left Eva's side, until she shot him.
That's the thing - I did not see it stated that Battler/Eva even came across Nanjo's corpse.
Nanjo is seen killed in the "fantasy version" and his death is discussed in the "courtroom".

Battler's POV ends with him running off after Eva. After that we only see Eva shooting Battler. that's it.

That's why I'm questioning Evatrice's red truths timeline. They are in effect after Nanjo dies "Nanjo is dead" and before Battler dies "Battler is alive". However any amount of time could've passed between those two events and at some point someone else could've been alive (and died before Evatrice's red truths come into effect), since before that red truth only confirmed 8 people as dead (Kinzo, servants, Rosa and Maria).
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Old 2013-07-29, 02:48   Link #1939
GreyZone
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That's why I'm questioning Evatrice's red truths timeline. They are in effect after Nanjo dies "Nanjo is dead" and before Battler dies "Battler is alive". However any amount of time could've passed between those two events and at some point someone else could've been alive (and died before Evatrice's red truths come into effect), since before that red truth only confirmed 8 people as dead (Kinzo, servants, Rosa and Maria).
That is indeed true, but Battler already suspected Eva at that point, so he most certainly followed Eva until she shot him. And for the case of an unknown "19th person" (using your theory of a dead Kinzo), he had all the more reason to stay close to Eva.
What I want to say is:

Someone else could have been alive to kill Nanjo, but it was most likely not Eva who killed that unknown person.
Your theory of "one of the others dying after having killed Nanjo" is valid though.
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Old 2013-07-29, 09:26   Link #1940
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Hm while comparing to the previous episodes couple other things pop-up:

All of the twilights are half-assed.
On the first twilight there are 5 exact same symbols, but none of the other symbols from previous episodes appear.
On the second twilight there is no symbol and no stakes, though previously there was at least one stake (Kanon's body not found).
There are no more letters or symbols, yet the stakes are still used for the other five murders?

Now I'm more convinced that there are several people/allies with different objectives and, by solving the epitaph and then killing Rosa and Maria to keep all of the gold, Eva somehow f***ed up all of the occult stuff that was supposed to happen.
Of course it could also be because one of the six who died in the 1st twilight wasn't supposed to die.

Also at first I thought Lambda was mad at Beato for failing in tricking Battler into making him accept Beato as a witch. But now that I think about it - is she actually mad because someone actually survived and got off the island?

If I remember correctly Lambda was talking about a cage for Bern. But if Battler accepts Beato then the game is over, right? So in order to keep that cage intact the game must reset over and over and over again.

And doesn't solving the epitaph put the witch to sleep (on that note - why didn't the witch go to sleep?)? So again the game ends. And so far the only way to survive is solve the epitaph.

So Lambda was mad about Beato "not caring who wins" in the "Epitaph game". Not the "game with Battler". The game with Battler is supposed to drag on for all eternity and everyone on the island is supposed to die for all eternity.

And the game is set up in such a way - as long as Battler doesn't accept that witches exist, the game with Beatrice continues.

Hm.. the problem with this logic though is that in that case Lambda also doesnt want Beatrice to win. So she would have to constantly somehow keep status quo intact.
And how does this become a cage for Bern if she came to this game of her own free will and will leave of her own free will if it becomes boring?

Need to re-read the tea party...

edit: envermind. Lambda wants Beato to win and defeat Bern. Though as long as Battler keeps saying "I don't believe in witches" Beato can never win.

Still doesnt explain how Bern becomes a bird in a cage if she came of her free will and could leave of her free will. Unless you lure the bird and then close the cage?

Last edited by Sauzer; 2013-07-29 at 10:37.
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