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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 14 Rating
Perfect 10 216 59.18%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 84 23.01%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 28 7.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 4.11%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 1.37%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 0.82%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 0.55%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 3 0.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful 9 2.47%
Voters: 365. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-07-13, 22:20   Link #481
FuzzyWuzzy
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Suzaku wants a reason to kill Lelouch. It's just the way his character works. If he cannot justify an action in his mind, he can't go through with it. He views himself as a person in the side of justice. He cannot do anything to Lelouch if Lelouch has no memory. He most likely used the drug on Kallen. He needs to know whether Lelouch regained his memories.

Suzaku said that in order to prevent bad things from happening, he will use any method necessary or something like that. In this scene, Suzaku has found a reason or justification to hurt people that he cares about. Nothing is stopping him from using the drug on Kallen. Lelouch probably wouldn't do something like that to Kallen since she is a person in Ashford Academy that he is fighting for also. So in this moment, we can see a difference in character between Suzaku and Lelouch and how they deal with Shirley's death. While Lelouch's character is improving, Suzaku's character is degrading. Lelouch still holds onto a sliver of principles while in Suzaku's eyes, nothing is sacred anymore and all boundaries can be crossed. Of course, they are still both mass murderers, but that's another topic for another discussion.

The scene with Kallen is not about finding whether Lelouch killed Shirley or not. It's about whether he regained his memories or not. Kallen knows Lelouch's second identity and it was Suzaku who showed her that in S1 episode 25 or 26.
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Old 2008-07-13, 22:20   Link #482
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by thespringmoon View Post
Oh Suzaku-kun, you never fail to make me hate loving you. <3 You pulled a deliciously mean stunt towards end of the episode, dear.

I'm a little upset that Lelouch wasn't extremely upset [so what if I like seeing him messed up a bit?] about Shirley, but I guess he got it all out last episode.
Yeah, he's out of the grief stage and into the anger stage. And boy, is he angry.
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Old 2008-07-13, 22:21   Link #483
hayato
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Originally Posted by thespringmoon View Post
I'm a little upset that Lelouch wasn't extremely upset [so what if I like seeing him messed up a bit?] about Shirley, but I guess he got it all out last episode.
He keeps it bottled up inside, he tries to act tough to not let his emotions get the best of him, but there's a limit...
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Old 2008-07-13, 22:28   Link #484
FuzzyWuzzy
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Yeah, he's out of the grief stage and into the anger stage. And boy, is he angry.
I'm pretty sure that the 5 stages are denial, then anger, bargaining, depression and then acceptance.

Anyway, in this episode, all my hope for Suzaku x Kallen is gone. Last episode, it was Lulu x Shirley. Maybe next episode, it will be Villeta x Ohgi.
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Old 2008-07-13, 22:32   Link #485
amjzz
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Great episode...some actions and some interesting parts...

It seems kallen just noticed that nunnally was a princess in this episode.
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Old 2008-07-13, 22:37   Link #486
morbosfist
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By that chart, Lelouch is probably at bargaining. He'll likely run through the last three stages in the next episode.
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Old 2008-07-13, 22:39   Link #487
finalnight
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To our budding psychiatrists in this thread: Not everyone hits all 5 stages.
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Old 2008-07-13, 22:42   Link #488
edf91
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Originally Posted by JesseJamesRocket View Post
Lelouche sold out during Season 1 when Nunnally got kidnapped. However, since Nunally is his bottom line, the truth is, he's only sold out his followers, who mean nothing to him if Nunally is on the line. Lelouche decided early on to do anything and everything it takes, and we are reminded of that rather often.
I agree, which is what makes what he did in this episode a "sell out" - there are way more advantage is NOT push for a complete wipe of the cult, but yet he decide to go ahead anyway simply because Shirley die. The complete destruction of the cult was never his intention, or he wouldn't need to actually ask C.C. whether she will follow him even if he decide to wipe them out.

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Originally Posted by JesseJamesRocket View Post
While his latest decisions are indeed spurred on by Shirley's death, he is merely ridding himself of a major threat through whatever means necessary as usual. Suzaku in the other hand wouldn't join Lelouche to free his own country and people from the Empire solely due to his belief that it is wrong to fight using any means necessary. And what's he doing now? Kissing the (any means necessary) emperor's ass and using chemical drugs to make a prisoner of war give information behind Nunally's back. Let's not forget that due to her own history, this will likely scar Kallen for life.
No - his original plan was to "Take over" the cult and overthrow V.V. Like I said, the only reason he changed the plan was because of Shirley's death, as he is assuming more risks and reward in destroying them. Just look at his own troops questioning what they are doing, not to mention he didn't even notice Viletta and Ougi are not doing what they are supposed to. Diehardt might be good at information gathering or what not, taking care of stuff internally is not - he might make a mess of things.

If he is really such a "kissing ass", he would've killed the million of "Zero"s back then. While I agree he is definitely not the same person as he used to be, and I really don't think he picked the best method, but he never changed, as we have seen from his comment to Shirley (I will make sure the border between Getto and the main town disappear {something along those lines}). I already talked about why he is using drugs on Kallen - he already seen Lulu break way too many rules while he isn't (like killing all the zeros), and with Shirley's death, he feel that he has to "break the rules" to make sure his friends won't die because of Lulu again.

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Originally Posted by JesseJamesRocket View Post
So yeah, Lelouche is a bastard, but Lelouche is supposed to be a bastard, and Suzaku is supposed to only be against him because he refuses to be a bastard since they claim to want the same thing at base. Only now, Suzaku is a bastard as well, which really leaves no excuse for him to have the views he has. Unless he's hated his own country and people all along, and has done everything to obtain the power he now has that is which I doubt. He's just sold out and doesn't stand for anything anymore. The bottom line comparison between he and Lelouche shows Lelouche to have alot more credibility in the (relative) integrity tank. Suzaku has none. Not to mention that he's now grown into a second tier character. Just annoying imo.
That was his original intent - not anymore because of Euphie. Remember, if Euphie's "idea" worked, the Japanese people would probably be living slightly better than they are currently, and given the "support" Cornelia and Schzene (forgot how to spell his name ), it has a decent chance of at least stop the unrest for a while. Whether that leads to much better life remains to be seen, but even Lulu was ready to at least give it a shot, as he is confident that he can change it if it doesn't work. In Suzaku's point of view, Lulu did two horrible things - one, he killed Euphie and two, he completely destroyed Euphie's idea and turn it against her, making her the most terrible person in Japanese people's mind. If you were Suzaku, who really didn't know what really happen to Euphie, would you worked with Lulu?

As for his power, right now his power is not that much - he can influence things here and there, but if someone higher up decide to do something else, he cannot change that, hence he needs to become Knight of One, as then, the Area of his choosing, which would be Area 11, would be his to govern as please, and there is no one, other than maybe the emperor, can do anything about it. You can say it is a method that probably doesn't work, but he does have the well being of Japanese people in mind, whether that is realistic or not.

As for Lulu's goal, it was obvious from the start, and even to his own admission, he is doing it for purely personal reason, although in parts of R2, he seems to change his mind and decide to modify his plan to actually help out the people (like not making the Chinese Empress marry someone, etc.), but that went out the window after Shirley was killed - he is back to his own selfish reasons again. Nanaly's safety is number one, so if there is another incident that forces him to choose sides again, there is no doubt it would be his followers that got the short end of the stick. Both Suzaku and Lulu can now admit it even to themselves that this is what they would be doing (doing things for the ultimate goal), so I don't see the need to "dump" on Suzaku because they are now basically doing the same thing, except from different angle (need to be a bastard for the greater good).

Maybe it's just me, as I don't see why Lulu's goal is more "noble" than Suzaku, other than the fact that Lulu has better planning so his plans usually yield results, while Suzaku has nothing really to show for his efforts, other than his Knight of Seven title. Besides, in a strange way, Suzaku represent a way for the Japanese people to be "tolerated" by Britainnia, as the Ashford students, at least the student council, treat him as an equal somewhat. I agree that Lulu's method would yield results much quicker, but which way would yield a better result in the long run, no one would know for certain.
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Old 2008-07-13, 22:52   Link #489
Var
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It seems kallen just noticed that nunnally was a princess in this episode.
It was confirmed that she already knew, but she cannot simply open up a conversation as if she knew everything.
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Old 2008-07-13, 22:58   Link #490
m1thril
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not sure if this has been asked, but do you think LL will have rolo killed? and man did LL have a lot of people killed.....
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Old 2008-07-13, 23:00   Link #491
Var
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not sure if this has been asked, but do you think LL will have rolo killed? and man did LL have a lot of people killed.....
I think this episode made it painfully clear that he is going to die because of his Geass. There is no other reason for the defect to be mentioned.
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Old 2008-07-13, 23:02   Link #492
FlareKnight
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I think this episode made it painfully clear that he is going to die because of his Geass. There is no other reason for the defect to be mentioned.
Yeah no way they mention something like that and not have it used. Really can see him dying from it while using his geass to save Lelouch somehow. Though not sure why Lelouch didn't just blow him up anyways. Sure it wouldn't have taken out V.V. at the same time, but does that really matter?
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Old 2008-07-13, 23:03   Link #493
Var
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Yeah no way they mention something like that and not have it used. Really can see him dying from it while using his geass to save Lelouch somehow. Though not sure why Lelouch didn't just blow him up anyways. Sure it wouldn't have taken out V.V. at the same time, but does that really matter?
What would be his justification? He has people watching, if he does it with the Siegfried he can blame it on V.V., otherwise the Vincent just conveniently blows up?
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Old 2008-07-13, 23:12   Link #494
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Lelouch may have wanted to kill Rolo, but not before he got one last usage out of his rag.
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Old 2008-07-13, 23:14   Link #495
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What would be his justification? He has people watching, if he does it with the Siegfried he can blame it on V.V., otherwise the Vincent just conveniently blows up?
Well the unit was damaged to hell. Sure people would wonder why the heck it blew up, but its not like they will have much to go on. Its a remotely activated bomb after all. If it blew up while holding onto the Siegfried wouldn't there be as much question as to why it exploded? Of course there was that shocking attack used by V.V. so it probably would be better explained if it happened then. But its a unit carrying a guy none of the grunts really know. Sure might be some shocks as to what happened, but after what had already gone on a random explosion wouldn't be the biggest thing on their mind.
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Lelouch may have wanted to kill Rolo, but not before he got one last usage out of his rag.
That's probably the best explanation for it. Dying like that wouldn't get Lelouch anything.
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Old 2008-07-13, 23:16   Link #496
Var
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Well the unit was damaged to hell. Sure people would wonder why the heck it blew up, but its not like they will have much to go on. Its a remotely activated bomb after all. If it blew up while holding onto the Siegfried wouldn't there be as much question as to why it exploded? Of course there was that shocking attack used by V.V. so it probably would be better explained if it happened then. But its a unit carrying a guy none of the grunts really know. Sure might be some shocks as to what happened, but after what had already gone on a random explosion wouldn't be the biggest thing on their mind.
I meant more of a justification for throwing out the useful rag. As long as Rolo has not caught on he is an invaluable tool. Lelouch is not in a position to just be tossing aside pieces without using them to the fullest.
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Old 2008-07-13, 23:21   Link #497
demon_god04
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Also Lelouch may not be overly squeamish about sacrificing people, but we have yet to see him kill someone completely in cold blood without reason that I can recall. It is just like a chess game he does not sacrifice his pieces haphazardly.
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Old 2008-07-13, 23:28   Link #498
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So I'm away for one weekend and I come back and suddenly Code Geass is the bees knees all over the internet again. Amazing how quickly things can change.
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Old 2008-07-13, 23:28   Link #499
Var
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I have no idea if this has been asked, but it came up in a conversation. How long did the conversation/bonding session between Nunally and Kallen go on for? I'm inclined to believe that it was a good while before Suzaku walked in, but I cannot be certain.
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Old 2008-07-13, 23:30   Link #500
morbosfist
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The scene transition suggests it could have gone on for quite a while or it could have been the exact length they showed us. I'm inclined to believe it went a bit longer than they showed us.
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