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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 14 Rating
Perfect 10 216 59.18%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 84 23.01%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 28 7.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 4.11%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 1.37%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 0.82%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 0.55%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 3 0.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful 9 2.47%
Voters: 365. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-07-16, 18:49   Link #1061
Eliarine
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I think if there's something "changing" Suzaku it's Lelouch, actually.
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Old 2008-07-16, 18:51   Link #1062
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Diedrupo View Post
....right they were so dangerous that Lelouch easily wiped them out in one battle, eh?.
He had the element of surprise. Something that won't exist if he attempted to negotiate. And the BK had lost men in the attack, which wouldn't happen if they were attacking "civilians".
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Old 2008-07-16, 18:51   Link #1063
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Bennyswan View Post
I think it was on here someone said that its becoming the opposite that its Britannia changing Suzaku, well his actions and such. Gah 4 more days... it feels like forever lol.
It's torture it is. Suzaku seems to forget that he'd have to unseat Bismark to gain the Knight of One status. Bismark isn't likely to drop that title any time soon.
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Old 2008-07-16, 18:52   Link #1064
lordblazer
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
The plan changed because his girlfriend got killed by a maniac dog. Not because of the whole dangerous thing.
Still from a Black Knight's point of view they are a threat.
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Old 2008-07-16, 18:57   Link #1065
Bennyswan
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Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
I think if there's something "changing" Suzaku it's Lelouch, actually.
True i think Suzaku is getting kind of obsessed with Lelouch being Zero, taking his actions so far as to drug one of his friends to confirm that Lelouch is Zero. Even if he gets the answer he wants, how is he going to react when Lelouch tells him that his Geass went permanent when he was making a cruel joke.

Last edited by Bennyswan; 2008-07-16 at 18:58. Reason: added quote lol
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Old 2008-07-16, 19:04   Link #1066
SoldierOfDarkness
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He had the element of surprise. Something that won't exist if he attempted to negotiate. And the BK had lost men in the attack, which wouldn't happen if they were attacking "civilians".
Well they lost 1 guy to that kid puppeting that BK (Which would be self defense)who was then killed by Rolo (the guy's a loose cannon I swear). The others were taken out by VV who was simply buying time for the others to escape. I mean you really don't expect such a cult to not have any means of defending themselves and having a siegfried isn't something you have everyday.

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Originally Posted by Bennyswan View Post
True i think Suzaku is getting kind of obsessed with Lelouch being Zero, taking his actions so far as to drug one of his friends to confirm that Lelouch is Zero. Even if he gets the answer he wants, how is he going to react when Lelouch tells him that his Geass went permanent when he was making a cruel joke.
He seems to have simply just "snapped" when Shirely died. Lelouch not being there during the funeral obviously didn't help things either.
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Old 2008-07-16, 19:12   Link #1067
Eliarine
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Originally Posted by Bennyswan View Post
True i think Suzaku is getting kind of obsessed with Lelouch being Zero, taking his actions so far as to drug one of his friends to confirm that Lelouch is Zero.
Not...quite what I meant but I guess you can see it that way too.
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Old 2008-07-16, 19:17   Link #1068
Yorae_paladin1
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Lulu and suzaku truly have gone off the deep end now Lulu murdering innocents who didn't fight back. and Suzaku now going to drug his friend.
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Old 2008-07-16, 19:26   Link #1069
Eliarine
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Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1 View Post
Lulu and suzaku truly have gone off the deep end now Lulu murdering innocents who didn't fight back. and Suzaku now going to drug his friend.
See this? See this simple, short comment? This is what I think we're supposed to think after seeing the episode (well, apart from all the...other developments of course ). Simple as that.
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Old 2008-07-16, 19:26   Link #1070
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennyswan View Post
True i think Suzaku is getting kind of obsessed with Lelouch being Zero, taking his actions so far as to drug one of his friends to confirm that Lelouch is Zero. Even if he gets the answer he wants, how is he going to react when Lelouch tells him that his Geass went permanent when he was making a cruel joke.
But can't you understand that behind the cupcake-filling of Code Geass' Ashford Schoolmates dynamic that Kallen is the ACE pilot of the opposing side? She's just not some hawtygirl he was kinda cool with in school...She holds damning information that a KoR may want to know...V.V. JUST FOUND OUT that Lulu regained his memories...Villetta and Rolaid have been lying to Suzaku about what they know creating doubt...It is well within Suzaku's authority to be able to ascertain the info that will shed his doubt and allow him to go back at Lulu full force (what he has been holding back on since Lulu has been back in school)...

If a couple Refrain stabs gets him the answer then sobeit, but again he's only threating this...He hasn't done anything yet and quite honestly under almost any other KoR Kallen would be subject to torture and//or death...And before you or anyone else pulls the "What does it matter if he knows or not?" card, what does it matter if Kallen gives up the info at this point? How would anything BIG change at this point? Suzaku has control of an enemy combatant and has the right to use any tactic to get answers, thank god he's only trying to get her high verses what he could be doing to her...But if you just look at it as friends don't hurt friends instead of the militaristic situation that it really is, then that is what it is...
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Old 2008-07-16, 19:32   Link #1071
Var
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
It is well within Suzaku's authority to be able to ascertain the info that will shed his doubt and allow him to go back at Lulu full force (what he has been holding back on since Lulu has been back in school)...
That's the trick. Kallen is not his prisoner. She is under Nunally's authority. It is not within his power to do as he wishes as KoR do not have say over royals, they simply cannot be commanded by anyone but the Emperor in what they have to do. A KoR's power on the political stage is pretty low, only the KoO holds any actual authority over people. Suzaku is overstepping his bounds by doing this, he's neither a general nor a governor, and PoW are under the jurstiction of the Governor-General, Guilford made that point clear.

This is equivalent to a soldier taking a prisoner and torturing them without orders. He is going behind Nunally's back and doing something that is illegal.
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Old 2008-07-16, 19:39   Link #1072
bladeofdarkness
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topic change
in keeping with the theme that r2 eps seem to reflect the first season eps
in ep 14 of last season we meet mao
a man granted geass by c.c and then forsaken by her for failing to fill their contract
this ep i got the feeling from c.c's words right before she killed v.v's henchmen that she thinks this would be hers and lulu's last time together
in other words lulu has failed her as well and she is about to ditch him just like mao
in keeping with this theory next ep we will have lulu gain a better understanding of c.c and they would renew their contract
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Old 2008-07-16, 19:54   Link #1073
DN24
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Kallen is not his prisoner. She is under Nunally's authority
Well, the Chinese turn her to Suzaku so she's his prisoner,and because she was captured in China not Japan she's not in anyway under Nunnally's authority.

Quote:
Suzaku is overstepping his bounds by doing this, he's neither a general nor a governor, and PoW are under the jurstiction of the Governor-General,
A KoR do have some power over people,Suzaku took control of the police and fireman in turn 13. Also he's Governor-assistant and is doing all the governing for Nunnally.
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Old 2008-07-16, 19:55   Link #1074
Bennyswan
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
If a couple Refrain stabs gets him the answer then sobeit, but again he's only threating this...He hasn't done anything yet and quite honestly under almost any other KoR Kallen would be subject to torture and//or death...And before you or anyone else pulls the "What does it matter if he knows or not?" card, what does it matter if Kallen gives up the info at this point? How would anything BIG change at this point? Suzaku has control of an enemy combatant and has the right to use any tactic to get answers, thank god he's only trying to get her high verses what he could be doing to her...But if you just look at it as friends don't hurt friends instead of the militaristic situation that it really is, then that is what it is...
There is a chance that hes just trying to scare her, but don't you think drugging her is just as bad as torture? I mean forcing Refrain on her isn't exactly a "not harming" her kind of method, we've seen the side effects. If Suzaku knows Zero is Lelouch then he could use it against him and then cause something big to happen.
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Old 2008-07-16, 20:05   Link #1075
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
That's the trick. Kallen is not his prisoner. She is under Nunally's authority. It is not within his power to do as he wishes as KoR do not have say over royals, they simply cannot be commanded by anyone but the Emperor in what they have to do. A KoR's power on the political stage is pretty low, only the KoO holds any actual authority over people. Suzaku is overstepping his bounds by doing this, he's neither a general nor a governor, and PoW are under the jurstiction of the Governor-General, Guilford made that point clear.

This is equivalent to a soldier taking a prisoner and torturing them without orders. He is going behind Nunally's back and doing something that is illegal.
Kallen is a prisoner of the Britannia army, captured by the Chinese given to the Brit army inwhich Suzaku has KoR authority...Nunally is the governor of Area 11...Obviously she can use whatever political influence to neutralize the situation, but until she hops outta that chair and opens her eyes I doubt that is gonna happen...Unfortunatley the fact that Nunally's authority is that of a puppet regime doesn't help matters...However beside the point that is, Nunally only has authority of the area and her authority means nothing if it isn't enforced, furthermore she has given Suzaku carte-blanche as her personal Knight so far this entire series and trusts him completley...Now while she may or may not support his methods in this situation she has clearly already given him the right to take matters in her stead given the nature of their relationship...Now when she enforces her so-called authority, it's authority, until then it doesn't exist and Suzaku's does...How can he be overstepping bounds that don't exist? The bounds must be set by Nunally and perhaps next episode she will...

We shall see...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennyswan
There is a chance that hes just trying to scare her, but don't you think drugging her is just as bad as torture?
I'm not suggesting that it isn't torture...It's hella psycological torture, but the stakes are too high in his mind...Has anyone thought for a minute the toll it takes on a person like Suzaku to be willing to do something like this? (Not that he even will do it) Suzaku isn't laffing manically when in his cockpit when he's fighting or killing people..The dude has basically said he's dead inside with Eufie's dream being pretty much the only thing keeping him alive (Other than the "Live" geass)...He feels that opposing Zero and confirming Lulu's involvment is paramount to achieving that dream...So if Kallen doesn't wanna get a needle addiction she had better spill the beans because she is a follower of Zero and a thorn in the side of the Brit army where Suzaku is currently a Knight...I mean at this point whether you like it or not, he's a KoR's and Kallen is his enemy...I'd say she's gotten supreme treatment thus far given her involvment with Zero, but it can't be all good times in war man...Kallen has killed just as many, just as much and now she has been caught by the enemy...Should we expect all roses??
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Last edited by wingdarkness; 2008-07-16 at 20:23. Reason: Responding
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Old 2008-07-16, 20:19   Link #1076
Var
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Well, the Chinese turn her to Suzaku so she's his prisoner,and because she was captured in China not Japan she's not in anyway under Nunnally's authority.
She is under Nunally's authority. In Area 11, she used her political power to put Kallen under her juristiction. Or do you think they just let people take prisoners out of their cells and let them get dressed in nice gowns? In her governatorial area, she has full custody of anyone she wants unless someone with more authority says otherwise. Suzaku is not one such person.

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Originally Posted by DN24 View Post
A KoR do have some power over people,Suzaku took control of the police and fireman in turn 13. Also he's Governor-assistant and is doing all the governing for Nunnally.
I said KoR have a small amount of political power, not no political power. He took control of public servants, that's not exactly high on the list of powers. He may be her assistant but he is still doing something behind her back, he needs her approval before he has the right of doing anything. Hence, he is breaking the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Kallen is a prisoner of the Britannia army, captured by the Chinese given to the Brit army inwhich Suzaku has KoR authority...Nunally is the governor of Area 11...Obviously she can use whatever political influence to neutralize the situation, but until she hops outta that chair and opens her eyes I doubt that is gonna happen...Unfortunatley the fact that Nunally's authority is that of a puppet regime doesn't help matters...However beside the point that is, Nunally only has authority of the area and her authority means nothing if it isn't enforced, furthermore she has given Suzaku carte-blanche as her personal Knight so far this entire series and trusts him completley...Now while she may or may not support his methods in this situation she has clearly already given him the right to take matters in her stead given the nature of their relationship...Now when she enforces her so-called authority, it's authority, until then it doesn't exist and Suzaku's does...How can he be overstepping bounds that don't exist? The bounds must be set by Nunally and perhaps next episode she will...
She does not trust him completely, they've pointed that out already. She's already begining to doubt him, and I think this next episode is going to be the culmination of that and it will bite Suzaku in the ass. He is exploiting her naivety, trust, and kindness for his own vendetta. He is no better than a common criminal at this point.

As I said, Guilford said that there were international laws for treating PoW. This is not overstepping Nunally's power, it is overstepping her trust, but it is much more overstepping international law and breaking it. This completely ignores the fact that refrain will not get him what he wants. It is not a truth serum, all he's going to hear from Kallen is about her brother and mother in their happiest times. Unless he plans on turning her into a junkie, at which point he below dirt.
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Old 2008-07-16, 20:31   Link #1077
EternalMelody
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
She is under Nunally's authority. In Area 11, she used her political power to put Kallen under her juristiction. Or do you think they just let people take prisoners out of their cells and let them get dressed in nice gowns? In her governatorial area, she has full custody of anyone she wants unless someone with more authority says otherwise. Suzaku is not one such person.



I said KoR have a small amount of political power, not no political power. He took control of public servants, that's not exactly high on the list of powers. He may be her assistant but he is still doing something behind her back, he needs her approval before he has the right of doing anything. Hence, he is breaking the law.



She does not trust him completely, they've pointed that out already. She's already begining to doubt him, and I think this next episode is going to be the culmination of that and it will bite Suzaku in the ass. He is exploiting her naivety, trust, and kindness for his own vendetta. He is no better than a common criminal at this point.

As I said, Guilford said that there were international laws for treating PoW. This is not overstepping Nunally's power, it is overstepping her trust, but it is much more overstepping international law and breaking it. This completely ignores the fact that refrain will not get him what he wants. It is not a truth serum, all he's going to hear from Kallen is about her brother and mother in their happiest times. Unless he plans on turning her into a junkie, at which point he below dirt.
To add into this,
If Suzaku really injects the Refrain, then he is a criminal because it is against the law to use Refrain, regardless of whom he injects it into. Remember in Kallen's mom episode? People who uses Refrain are considered criminals and are punishable by the law. Kallen's mom was sentenced for 20 years.
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Old 2008-07-16, 20:37   Link #1078
bladeofdarkness
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why does he choose to use refrain as a way to get answers
it never been used as a means to interogate someone (that we heard of)
its been shown to be a pain in the britannans backside since it effects a persons ability to function
and it makes you delusional about being in your past (its not a truth drug)
so what reason does he have to choose to use it
other then the fact that kallen herself has a personal reason to fear it
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Old 2008-07-16, 20:39   Link #1079
morbosfist
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There's two reasons:

1. He's simply lost his damn mind.
2. He knows Kallen's history with the drug, to an extent, and is trying to bluff her into talking.
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Old 2008-07-16, 20:43   Link #1080
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by Var
He is exploiting her naivety, trust, and kindness for his own vendetta. He is no better than a common criminal at this point.
Man your scale is clearly in one direction...Can't really come to a common agreement with this as your ground Zero so to speak...So he's exploiting her by taking an action that is ultimatley trying to progress the agenda of her and Euffie's common dream...A dream he shares? Now you can say he's going about it the wrong way or that their's a pepper-shake of selfishness in his actions, but to that end of advancing that dream of becoming a KoOne and building a protected area for all people this is what he feels he has to do...Confirm Lulu's involvment...

Quote:
It is not a truth serum, all he's going to hear from Kallen is about her brother and mother in their happiest times. Unless he plans on turning her into a junkie, at which point he below dirt.
People will answer alot of questions truthfully while under the influence, trust me^^...It's called inhibitions and breaking them down...Although I think the idea of him getting her addicted then taking it away from her to force her to give the name would make for very harsh and dramatic tension, which in a televised drama would be welcomed for my money...But I am centered enuff to enjoy something in a literary sense that I wouldn't champion in the real-life...
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