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Old 2008-07-17, 18:43   Link #61
silverado
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Join Date: Jul 2007
So to sum it up you spend so much time in irc that you don't need any kind of tool for updates. Do all group work like you? Can all members spend equal amounts of time on irc? I think rome can help groups who cannot idle 3 hours a day in irc.

Yes, we've also worked with ftp and name codes. In Rome you can have 1 wiki page and maybe 20 versions, all with annotations. it is much simplier if you have only ONE file.
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Old 2008-07-17, 18:48   Link #62
theknife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado View Post
So to sum it up you spend so much time in irc that you don't need any kind of tool for updates. Do all group work like you? Can all members spend equal amounts of time on irc? I think rome can help groups who cannot idle 3 hours a day in irc.
They don't need to work like that. If you want, you can log in, see what you have, log out, do something, log in, change the topic, and log out. There's no need to sit and stare at IRC for hours. That's just silly. Do you expect that someone will sit and stare at their email for hours waiting for a notification? Of course not.
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Old 2008-07-17, 18:48   Link #63
日本ひきこもり協会
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not Japan :((
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado View Post
When you close an issue in Rome all involved members will be automatically notified. You don't have to say "Hey, I'm done." They already know that you are done.
No, I just update the topic and everyone in the channel will see that. Also I don't run my email client 24/7 and check them just once a day. Also all the email traffic annoys me.

Quote:
If you are a translator, your members will know where to find the text file (in the wiki).
The members with a brain will know that if I translated episode 4 of show A, the translation will be in the show A's episode 04 folder.

Quote:
If you are a proofreader, your members can compare the current version with a previous version. New lines are highlighted green, deleted lines are in red.
Googledocs can do the same thing. Also the editor either accepts or declines changes before uploading the next release candidate. Also the magic of IRC helps to discuss lines in a timely manner since IRC works in real time.

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If you find mistakes, you can annotate the texts or edit it directly. You always see who did what. As manager you can create mile stones like "Bokurano Season 1". You can see the overall progress and plan whether you need to recruit new members or not.
That's just too chaotic. I have seen several mistakes appearing because more than one person fiddled with the script and caused some errors. Definitely a bad idea.

You can create milestones by creating a new folder on your FTP.

You recruit new members when you see things aren't moving.

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If a member is absent, he can create an "I'm Absent" issue or create a topic in the staff forum, all you need is one browser. How easier can this become?
If he's going to be absent he will just say that in the staff channel. As the people are not illiterate they will understand the meaning behind that person's words. You can also use the topic to leave a message.

With IRC you can do everything that your complex package offers. So why make this all so complicated and confusing while you just need to change the topic? Doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 2008-07-17, 18:50   Link #64
silverado
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Because it's simplier and much faster?
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Old 2008-07-17, 18:58   Link #65
theknife
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it takes 5 seconds max to change a name in a topic
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:02   Link #66
日本ひきこもり協会
awarpsharp is good
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not Japan :((
Uh... I seriously can't find the right words. Just come back when you get a grasp how fansubbing groups operate as you clearly don't know about that. Not knowing aside, you don't seem to be capable of imagining it. Luckily getfresh can teach you how a fansub group operates.
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:14   Link #67
silverado
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look it's like this:

you start your irc client, login your channel and then wait for changes. ofc you can log out but after hearing all that today I strongly believe that you actually just stay in irc ALL the time. Be it as pretext for "socializing" or "coordinaton" it's actually all the same: You are waiting.

And this "login" and "waiting for updates" is what takes up most of the time.

No critic, it's completely ok if you do it that way. No critic here.

In rome there are only two situations where you login:
1. either to close your issue or 2. to create a new issue.

you can still discuss problems and chat in irc. i have no objections. it's not what rome was made for. rome was is used to visualize all group activities and to inform the members. if you stay in irc anyway you can turn the email subscription off. as group leader you only need three clicks to provide a new task to a member and you can always see how everyone's doing. The task can contain addional information and even file attachments.
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:17   Link #68
theknife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado View Post
look it's like this:

you start your irc client, login your channel and then wait for changes. ofc you can log out but after hearing all that today I strongly believe that you actually just stay in irc ALL the time. Be it as pretext for "socializing" or "coordinaton" it's actually all the same: You are waiting.
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but it is actually possible to minimize IRC and use your computer for other tasks. For example, right now I have IRC open, but amazingly at the same time, I'm using Excel to work on something (are you sitting down?) completely unrelated to fansubbing!
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:17   Link #69
silverado
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Originally Posted by theknife View Post
it takes 5 seconds max to change a name in a topic
but it takes 4 hours to wait for an update.
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:19   Link #70
theknife
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Originally Posted by silverado View Post
but it takes 4 hours to wait for an update.
Does Rome somehow transport updates back through time so I can work on something that someone else hasn't finished yet?
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:20   Link #71
silverado
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Originally Posted by theknife View Post
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but it is actually possible to minimize IRC and use your computer for other tasks. For example, right now I have IRC open, but amazingly at the same time, I'm using Excel to work on something (are you sitting down?) completely unrelated to fansubbing!
great, and you can even do the same with rome, (if you browser supports it)
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:21   Link #72
theknife
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great, and you can even do the same with rome, (if you browser supports it)
So I should learn a new system because it can do the same thing as the existing system?
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:24   Link #73
silverado
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Originally Posted by theknife View Post
Does Rome somehow transport updates back through time so I can work on something that someone else hasn't finished yet?
i will leave it as that. but do you seriously think that irc is good for team management? don't you think companies would have gone through blood and hell to install their own irc client on every computer?
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:26   Link #74
silverado
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Originally Posted by theknife View Post
So I should learn a new system because it can do the same thing as the existing system?
you spend hours learning all irc commands. you can code your own irc scripts to update a mere topic. and you're telling me that you can't use a mouse to click on a finish-button?
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:27   Link #75
theknife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado View Post
i will leave it as that. but do you seriously think that irc is good for team management? don't you think companies would have gone through blood and hell to install their own irc client on every computer?
Fansubbers do not work like a company. If you don't understand that, then you really have no business creating a tool for them. The first thing you should have done is documented the fansubbing process. I've seen this exact same problem at work. A new system is put in by someone who thinks they know better, without consulting the users, and instead of the system being adapted to the users, the users have to adapt to the system. Fortunately, here we have the ability to reject the new system and stay with the old one, which works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado View Post
you spend hours learning all irc commands. you can code your own irc scripts to update a mere topic. and you're telling me that you can't use a mouse to click on a finish-button?
I don't know any IRC commands. To change the topic, I double-click the window in mIRC, edit the topic, and click "OK". No scripts involved.
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:33   Link #76
silverado
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I'm open for feedback be it positive or negative. But saying old is better and newer is worse isn't really helping anybody. So why don't you try to find out what is good about rome and tell me what could be done better. I think this is a much better way to solve things out.
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:39   Link #77
silverado
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I've created a project called Animesuki. You can login using anime/suki

i created an email demo account: animesuki@mint.us.to

You can check your emails here: http://www.mintemail.com/?email=anim...&override=true
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:40   Link #78
theknife
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For me, Rome provides no additional functionality that I require. Therefore, I have no incentive to switch. It would just add another layer of complexity.
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Old 2008-07-17, 19:47   Link #79
silverado
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nevertheless it would be nice if you could try it out and give me a feedback.
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Old 2008-07-17, 20:42   Link #80
getfresh
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado View Post
I think the real problem here is how to explain that a wheel rolls better than a square. That specialized management software are sweeter than an instant messanger. That advanced web based text editors with roll back feature are more suitable for text editing then ftp clients, because this is exactly what you are doing.
yeah a wheel does roll better than a square, and as far as fansubbing is concerned you are offering a triangle. You are creating at least 3 times as many steps in something that is simple, easy, and fast. Why is over over complication so much better? I don't see why you would make a product for a group of ppl to use and not even listen to their input. They are the end user who you are hoping will use it. Every software development company gathers info from the end users and gears the function and interface towards what the major of users want.
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