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View Poll Results: Clannad - Extra Episode (Tomoyo Chapter) Rating
Perfect 10 161 54.03%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 83 27.85%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 27 9.06%
7 out of 10 : Good 13 4.36%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 1.68%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 1.01%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.34%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.34%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 4 1.34%
Voters: 298. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-07-21, 14:40   Link #141
mso
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Well, this time I made an exception and watched the RAWs. And even though I didn't understand about 95% of the dialogs, the picture and mood says a lot. Hope SS-Eclipse will sub this one... Anyway, from what I caugh from the picture and the little japanese I know, this episode is really good, perhaps the best Clannad episode so far. The ending is simply brilliant.
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Old 2008-07-21, 17:31   Link #142
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Kyou's arc: WHERE?!

Way better than the Tomoyo arc IMO, Kyoani really has to animate it!
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Old 2008-07-21, 17:37   Link #143
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Ok I never played the game. But still this ep deserves a 9.5, rounded to a 10. Only misgivings was the rushed start but since it was only 1 ep, they had to give it a headstart.

Otherwise, the mood, the pace, the story was all great. Moving and full of impact.
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Old 2008-07-21, 17:42   Link #144
velocity7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyosak View Post
Kyou's arc: WHERE?!

Way better than the Tomoyo arc IMO, Kyoani really has to animate it!
I am a Kyou fan, and I would have to say that this is not true.
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Old 2008-07-21, 18:57   Link #145
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Hm, Tomoya's kind of really out of character in Kyou's arc. It was kind of odd to see him do what he did, even though I kind of understood his thinking. And the story was quite generic when it comes to twins, but, I think it'd be interesting to see that.
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Old 2008-07-21, 23:51   Link #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
God this episode was better then entire bloody series that came before.

And yes, I'm being fully serious.
I'd have to agree with you on this.
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Old 2008-07-22, 07:37   Link #147
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I thought the drama in this episode was very good, but I was never completely convinced by the romance. As others have mentioned earlier, they did rather force it on us by throwing us into what was clearly the middle-to-end of the story. Obviously they had a severely limiting time constraint on them, and something had to be sacrificed, but this is what I'd call a text book case of "not properly developed".

But the drama itself was good. The relationship between Okazaki and Tomoyo was given a significant hurtle, and as has been the case with all of Clannad so far, the drama allowed the story to thoroughly explore some very interesting and down-to-earth themes. I had a bit of trouble with the ending itself, and the choices the characters invariably made (such as Tomoyo giving up a promising life just to be with Okazaki), but I'd imagine things would have been much more credible if the relationship was better developed.

Who complained about Okazaki being slightly OOC? haiz123321? I thought that was on the mark. He just seemingly lost a bit of his "edge" in this episode, and was a bit blunted compared to what we're used to. Arguably Tomoyo tamed him, but he kinda felt to me that he was diluting his naturally sardonic personality for Tomoyo's sake. Maybe something happened between them leading up to that, but, again, there's this big hole in their relationship development that we unfortunately weren't privy to in this episode.

Good episode, but the short time scale muted its potential, IMO.
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Old 2008-07-22, 13:05   Link #148
destiny4everlove
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Episode 24

-Sunohara was hilarious as always. He was my favorite part of this episode.

- Even though, I'm a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge fan of the Nagisa x Tomoya pairing (and I mean HUGE, since Nagisa x Tomoya is my OTP in the whole anime world), I was still able to enjoy this episode. They were really touching and amazing moments, like the break up scene and the sort of make up scene at the end of the ep. It was a very good episode, but in a weird way... it made me love my favorite pairing even more, because this episode showed me just how much Nagisa and Tomoya are perfect for each other.

-O.K. I admit that I'm biased, completely biased in fact, but when Tomoya and Tomoyo were about to kiss I was internally screaming: "nooooooooo!!!", because I really want for Tomoya's first kiss to be with Nagisa.

-It was a good ep, but I sure missed Nagisa and the other girls. Anyway, after watching this episode I so can't wait to watch the second season of Clannad!!
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Old 2008-07-22, 21:07   Link #149
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Watching this episode has kind of spoiled my anticipation for the second season of Clannad. Tomoyo and Kyou were my favourites from the first series, (although Kyou got a little weird/possessive at the tail end of it all) but I accepted the Nagisa x Tomoya pairing because it was pretty much clandestine from the get-go. Nagisa is a little......door-matty and helpless, which is completely not my thing. She's really the only Key/Kyoani lead I don't care for. At least Ayu and Misuzu had some spunk.

Having seen how good the Tomoyo x Tomoya storyline could have been, my enthusiasm to see S2 seems to have waned.

Anyway, my thoughts on the episode have already been articulated in a better fashion than I could manage (the rushed pacing impacting the flow, the sub-par animation for Kyoanis' standards). I will however mention that Tomoyo's VA Kuwashima Houko is a standout with the more emotional scenes. So props to her.

And I agree with whoever it was that said this episode was better than the 23 before it. So true.

Did anyone else get "5 cm per second" vibes from it at all? Or was it just me in my craziness?
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Old 2008-07-22, 21:52   Link #150
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mmmm my thoughts on the extra ep.

Spoiler for includes sum reference to the game: Tomoyo-its a wonderful life:


This ep really just sets up the scenario from: Tomoyo-its a wonderful life arc, unless thats the direction Key is gona take with After Story, its not relevant to the original Clannad TV (Nagisa) arc/story
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Old 2008-07-22, 23:25   Link #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
I had a bit of trouble with the ending itself, and the choices the characters invariably made (such as Tomoyo giving up a promising life just to be with Okazaki), but I'd imagine things would have been much more credible if the relationship was better developed.
If I had to make any rewrites on how things would developed from this extra episode's end, I'd have liked to see Tomoya be the one to follow Tomoyo and go wherever she goes rather than the other way around. Now, whether one can argue if this is at odds with his personality is another matter, but it's the outcome that would have made the most sense to me. Maybe this episode's end was a reflection of traditional Japanese gender roles.
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Old 2008-07-22, 23:32   Link #152
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Oh, this is what I was missing throughout the CLANNAD series! This episode, regardless of its slight problems, was was what I wish the series had been like. While I found myself enjoying it, CLANNAD had something that stopped it being as memorable or as moving as its KyoAni predecessors Kanon or Air. Watching the Tomoyo chapter helped reinforce why it wasn't as compelling-- it suffers from a lack of strong female leads.

Ayu was ballsy--as were all the other Kanon girls in one way, shape or form. As was Misuzu, in her more tragic, endearing way. In CLANNAD we have Nagisa-- who is too much of a timid, walk-over to let her moments of personal growth shine-- Ryou, Fuko and Kotomi who are all rather similar in terms of personality strength. Then on the other side of the spectrum we have Kyou and Tomoyo who both seem to have enough strength of personality to steam-roll anything that crosses their path. This made Kyou and Tomoyo my favourite characters in the series, so it was disheartening to see their stories whittled down to nothing.

The Tomoyo chapter was realistic and touching which helps to heighten the emotional impact of the story. While it was rather disappointing to skip the start of Tomoyo/Tomoya's relationship, KyoAni dealt with it in a way that made it believable and sweet without being saccharine. The progression of the relationship was dealt with effectively given the significant time constraints, and the chemistry between the two leads was palpable, as they seem to be much more evenly matched than Nagisa/Tomoya. As per KyoAni's standards, the emotional scenes were well done, if not a little lacking in their usual animation standards for this group. Seiyuu performances were excellent, special props to Kuwashima Houko who does a great job with making Tomoyo vulnerable and emotional without making her seem OoC, given her stoic personality in the series.

My gripes: Time constraints crippled it to an excellent--but not quite perfect--story. Had there been more time devoted to it, I'm sure I would have been able to rate it as a perfect ten.

And oh-my-word-the-Engrish! Tomoyo's speech sounded like the script-writers plucked random words out of the Japanese-English dictionary and threw them together haphazardly, same applies to the Engrish song at the climatic scene. Maybe it would have been okay for non-English speakers, but I found myself having to physically block out the lyrics to watch the scene. It's amazing how such bad English can be so utterly distracting. I honestly don't see why they didn't just fork out to have an English-speaking person, or better yet a translator, quickly check it over. In all honesty, I think a musical score works better in these moments without vocals to detract from the scene.

To summarise: This was a teasing taste of what could have been. Simplistic, realistic and powerful, and with a couple that I find more believable than the canon pairing, this added bonus made me rather disappointed that it is only a one-off. Here's to hoping there's enough material for a spin-off series!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fweakin
Did anyone else get "5 cm per second" vibes from it at all? Or was it just me in my craziness?

I did, actually. Especially with the rail crossing imagery. It also had the same understated epic feel, and the same bittersweet tone throughout the episode. Anything that can evoke the same feelings as that fantastic movie gets two thumbs way, way up from me.
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Old 2008-07-23, 00:23   Link #153
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@Fweakin: It's a bit unfair to compare Nagisa to the previous Key leads at this point though, since her full arc hasn't been animated yet. The first season only went into 3/4 of her arc in the School Life portion of Clannad. Also remember that a significant portion of After Story will be dealing with Tomoya x Nagisa.

@Woodchips: Same as above. Tomoyo's route is one of the more down-to-earth routes in Clannad (School Life portion), with the others being Kyou's, Youhei's/Mei's, and a character who hasn't been introduced in the anime yet. All these are more believable and easier to relate to than most previous Key stories. And about the Engrish: they were all taken directly from the game, even Tomoyo's speech. As I've said, KyoAni's faithfulness to the source is damn scary.

@Taricitous: This episode's actually the direct adaptation of the latter half of Tomoyo's arc from the Clannad game (Tomoyo After follows up from there), though they skipped most of the jokes and other fun stuff. And actually, this is somewhat significant to the main story (Nagisa's route), as with all other paths in the game. Depending on how KyoAni handles the plot, this episode may or may not be referenced in future After Story episodes. Subbing in Tomoyo After for AS though is out of the question, since all the flags for Nagisa's route and AS have already been set.
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Old 2008-07-23, 00:51   Link #154
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Originally Posted by Woodchips View Post
Oh, this is what I was missing throughout the CLANNAD series! This episode, regardless of its slight problems, was was what I wish the series had been like. While I found myself enjoying it, CLANNAD had something that stopped it being as memorable or as moving as its KyoAni predecessors Kanon or Air. Watching the Tomoyo chapter helped reinforce why it wasn't as compelling-- it suffers from a lack of strong female leads.
Perhaps you are looking for an actual dating sim adaptation?

This happens to be a different beast.
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Old 2008-07-23, 01:34   Link #155
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@Woodchips: Same as above. Tomoyo's route is one of the more down-to-earth routes in Clannad (School Life portion), with the others being Kyou's, Youhei's/Mei's, and a character who hasn't been introduced in the anime yet. All these are more believable and easier to relate to than most previous Key stories. And about the Engrish: they were all taken directly from the game, even Tomoyo's speech. As I've said, KyoAni's faithfulness to the source is damn scary.
I can appreciate what you're trying to get at, but I am only expressing my opinion based on what they have presented to us thus far. I have not referred to the source material, nor do I intend to until the anime is completed. How is it unfair to compare a character to another lead just because her full route hasn't been animated yet? We've had twenty-four episodes of almost constant exposure to Nagisa through the series--which is more development than any other female KyoAni/Key lead--and she still doesn't engage me. At this stage, unless she undergoes a personality transplant, I doubt I will find her as endearing as the characters I mentioned in my last post. That's not to say that I'm completely closed off to the possibility-- I would like to be proven wrong, but thus far, she just doesn't measure up.

Re: Engrish. Again, I don't really care about the source material. I am looking at the anime only, and this episode in respect to the others I have seen. I can appreciate that they wanted to stay true to the source material, but surely they could have done some minor tweaking to ensure it wasn't quite so weird. The only difference would be that she's make sense when she was making her speech. And are you saying that the weird Engrish song was in the source material too? Regardless, my opinion still stands-- the Engrish was weird and distracting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocity7
Perhaps you are looking for an actual dating sim adaptation?

This happens to be a different beast.
Could you explain what you mean? I'm not quite following what you're trying to say.

Last edited by Woodchips; 2008-07-23 at 03:20. Reason: Obviously smoking pot
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Old 2008-07-23, 01:58   Link #156
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Originally Posted by Woodchips View Post
Ayu was ballsy--as were all the other Kanon girls in one way, shape or form. As was Misuzu, in her more tragic, endearing way. In CLANNAD we have Nagisa-- who is too much of a timid, walk-over to let her moments of personal growth shine-- Ryou, Fuko and Kotomi who are all rather similar in terms of personality strength. Then on the other side of the spectrum we have Kyou and Tomoyo who both seem to have enough strength of personality to steam-roll anything that crosses their path. This made Kyou and Tomoyo my favourite characters in the series, so it was disheartening to see their stories whittled down to nothing.
Oh, I disagree about Fuko. Fuko had a strong determination about her that made her endearing. I resisted with all my might, but I couldn't help but really like Fuko by the end of her arc... although I didn't totally appreciate what they did with her after that.

Although, I don't disagree that Kyou and Tomoyo weren't given enough spotlight during the main series.
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Old 2008-07-23, 02:43   Link #157
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How is it unfair to compare a character to another lead just because her full route hasn't been animated yet?
It's just like comparing a college graduate to a grade schooler -- or in WoW, like comparing the DPS of a T6/Sunwell geared 0/21/40 warlock to a T5 geared 40/0/21 mage on Brutallus. As you can see, the difference is huge when you compare a finished product to a work in progress. Not saying though that you can't compare -- just that doing so would be unfair.
Quote:
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We've had twenty-six episodes of almost constant exposure to Nagisa through the series--which is more development than any other female KyoAni/Key lead--and she still doesn't engage me.
Twenty-four. More screentime =/= more development. In all these episodes, her character only received minimal development, except in Ep19-23. Note that this is not even a third (or maybe a quarter) of the entire Clannad timeline, or of Nagisa's route (including AS) for that matter.
Quote:
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And are you saying that the weird Engrish song was in the source material too?
Yes. It's actually a very beautiful song if you ignore the lyrics and just listen to the melody. Like I said before:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
As for ANA... the melody's good. Just don't mind the lyrics. TIP: don't think of the lyrics as English words. Think of them as some odd alien language.
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Old 2008-07-23, 05:20   Link #158
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As you can see, the difference is huge when you compare a finished product to a work in progress. Not saying though that you can't compare -- just that doing so would be unfair.
Who says I'm comparing a work-in-progress to a finished product? I didn't have to watch Kanon or Air all the way through to find either a more captivating series, nor did I have to see all the way through to like Ayu or Misuzu as characters. All this really sounds like is a difference in opinion more than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Twenty-four. More screentime =/= more development. In all these episodes, her character only received minimal development, except in Ep19-23. Note that this is not even a third (or maybe a quarter) of the entire Clannad timeline, or of Nagisa's route (including AS) for that matter.
Thanks for the correction, I think I suffered a bit of a brain-fart there.

I think you're also getting stuck at the same point: I don't really care about the source material when I am commenting on the anime. While they are clearly related, I haven't been exposed to it, so I am only commenting on what I have seen so far. I am talking only about the anime-- the source material is irrelevant for discussing what I thought of the anime adaptation.

And I know that being on screen doesn't always equate to increased development, but if that's the case, what were they doing with all those scenes she was on screen without any development happening? Seems like wasted opportunity to me. If she had all that time, why didn't they really use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Yes. It's actually a very beautiful song if you ignore the lyrics and just listen to the melody.
It does have a nice melody, but that's what I was saying: I couldn't block out the weird English during that scene. Other people may have had no problems doing that, but I did. If they had cut the vocals and left the melody I would have been a very happy camper.
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Old 2008-07-23, 08:41   Link #159
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All I have to say is that this was THE best episode of Clannad. Still I can't believe I watched this for three times in a row, and nothing else but this, in Crunchyroll and suddenly not watching a thing in that site for 2 whole days because of this episode.
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Old 2008-07-23, 09:45   Link #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodchips View Post
Ayu was ballsy--as were all the other Kanon girls in one way, shape or form. As was Misuzu, in her more tragic, endearing way. In CLANNAD we have Nagisa-- who is too much of a timid, walk-over to let her moments of personal growth shine-- Ryou, Fuko and Kotomi who are all rather similar in terms of personality strength. Then on the other side of the spectrum we have Kyou and Tomoyo who both seem to have enough strength of personality to steam-roll anything that crosses their path. This made Kyou and Tomoyo my favourite characters in the series, so it was disheartening to see their stories whittled down to nothing.
This was pretty inevitable. Clannad, being and anime based off a game, literally cannot include every possibility (by that I mean the various "paths") for every character. The basic storyline would inevitably collapse under the weight of conflicting relationships, and the audience would be confused if at some point Tomoya did not have a clear love interest. Although it was not "officially declared" until the end of the series, it was obvious that Tomoya was interested in Nagisa. I've never even played the game, yet it was blindingly obvious to me that the storyline was going to be "Nagisa's route" (I know of the game, so I know that it going to follow the classic formula of all H-games to anime style).
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