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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10 37 31.90%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 30 25.86%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 27 23.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 10.34%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 4.31%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.72%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.86%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.72%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-07-18, 02:02   Link #101
Ottocycle
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Oh wow the serenading was awesomesauce. Hats off to that scene.

And to call Ranka the next Minmay? I guess it's just paparazzi or sensationalising. Think Fox News.
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Old 2008-07-18, 02:15   Link #102
LuMiZu
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I think many have said/quote this comment, but when I first heard the first line of the new Diamond Crevasse, I screamed to death. It was indeed "terribad" =/ Feels like the opposite of what the song should be about =.=
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Old 2008-07-18, 02:25   Link #103
Westlo
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Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
ED theme:

I liked how she did it in episode 3 way better, but I don't think Ranka's diamond crevasse is THAT bad. If I hadn't heard the May'n version, I wouldn't really see it as lacking. She sounds like singing a very sad song with optimism. Works for me. I bet if Sheryl sings Aimo, people will have problems too (even if it sounds decent) since Ranka's voice fits it better. Out of the 3 singers here though, I still want to hear more from Maaya. =/
Yeah the main problem with Ranka DC (and yeah her acapella in episode 2 was better than this) is that it just doesn't suit Megumi whereas something like the Ranka version of what bout my star does. If Megumi had sung what bout my star in the same manner as Sheryl's original it would've sounded as awkward as this DC version.

As for a May'n version of Aimo... I wouldn't exactly pencil in that Megumi's version would be superior... as shown by Maaya Megumi's version is nowhere near the best rendition.

And for your last paragraph, yes anime = lolz
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Old 2008-07-18, 02:37   Link #104
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Wont comment too much since i just watch the show for what it s worth but :
I though that recap episode with 90% stock footage only were sunrise registered :/ at least second part of eps was ok.
Ending was horrible.
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Old 2008-07-18, 02:54   Link #105
Sleepy100
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Meh, Ranka singing Diamond Crevasse wasn't that bad. I kind of expected it to be like that. The song was made to have a jazz like somber feel to it, and sung by someone who sounds like an adult. Ranka's voice is too child-like. Maybe the VA did that on purpose?

Spoiler for Episode 15:
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Old 2008-07-18, 02:56   Link #106
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pretty good and overall in vogue with plot advancement

too much scene reusage gives it a solid 7

cmon ranka wasnt that bad, it just turned a soulful song into a jpopy one LOL
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Old 2008-07-18, 03:04   Link #107
Sleepy100
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Originally Posted by foolycooly7777 View Post
cmon ranka wasnt that bad, it just turned a soulful song into a jpopy one LOL
It wasn't even close to jpop like. It sounded like a elementary schooler. Except they don't slur the words.

I feel so sorry for Alto, having to deal with an unwanted free show. And Brera having to watch the chaos.
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Old 2008-07-18, 03:09   Link #108
ickem
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Originally Posted by Sleepy100 View Post
Meh, Ranka singing Diamond Crevasse wasn't that bad. I kind of expected it to be like that. The song was made to have a jazz like somber feel to it, and sung by someone who sounds like an adult. Ranka's voice is too child-like. Maybe the VA did that on purpose?

Spoiler for Episode 15:
She called him ouji-sama or prince.
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Old 2008-07-18, 03:12   Link #109
LuMiZu
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Originally Posted by Sleepy100 View Post
It wasn't even close to jpop like. It sounded like a elementary schooler. Except they don't slur the words.

I feel so sorry for Alto, having to deal with an unwanted free show.
/agree

Maybe Megumi just tried too hard, or DC wasn't like other songs (e.g. Aimo) that another "version" with a different singing style could be pulled off easily. It just felt "elementary schooler". BTW, just to echo with some of you, I'd also like to hear Sheryl's version of Aimo. Maybe it would be good (like Maaya's version XD) , or maybe it won't, but it'll be interesting to hear a trio on Aimo

The sing-off was really nice though, especially to emphasize the "triangular" feel in the show
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Old 2008-07-18, 03:31   Link #110
Sleepy100
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Originally Posted by ickem View Post
She called him ouji-sama or prince.
Prince??? As in the Prince who go and whisk of the Princess from the evil Dragon??? (Princess could very well be the same thing as "Little Queen") What is she thinking?? *Mutters*incestfreak*mutters*
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Old 2008-07-18, 03:35   Link #111
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That song duel/duet was well worth the wait! Gotta think about this episode some more before I can write something coherent about it.... too much information to absorb right now <lol>.
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Old 2008-07-18, 03:37   Link #112
Kaoru Chujo
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I don't know what you critics are talking about. That episode was great, especially all -- and I mean all -- the music. It seems to me you must have too-definite preconceptions of how certain songs should be sung. And if vocal perfection is so important, we might as well all listen to opera, and forget about pop music altogether. Pop music is about art and emotion, not about sterile technique. My apologies for going overboard, but you struck a nerve.

I thought May'N and Nakajima Megumi were wonderful singing together. They will be doing it live, too. Here is a pic of them rehearsing -- or maybe just playing around during rehearsal, I'm not sure (click to enlarge):



And in my opinion, there were plenty of developments in that episode, more than enough to allow us to enjoy a bit of rerun.

Inoue Kikuko is just excellent as Grace. And Endou Aya has such a beautiful voice playing Sheryl.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2008-07-18 at 03:55.
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Old 2008-07-18, 05:02   Link #113
Sleepy100
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With Ranka and Sheryl doing their little concert inside the hospital, I wouldn't be surprised if Alto starts wondering why he's feeling killing intent from military personal a few days later. Oh and Ozma would most likely put him through the grind house.
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Old 2008-07-18, 05:38   Link #114
Swampstorm
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I don't know what you critics are talking about. That episode was great, especially all -- and I mean all -- the music. It seems to me you must have too-definite preconceptions of how certain songs should be sung. And if vocal perfection is so important, we might as well all listen to opera, and forget about pop music altogether. Pop music is about art and emotion, not about sterile technique. My apologies for going overboard, but you struck a nerve.
Whether or not you like a given song is a matter of personal preference. It doesn't need to have technique, art, or emotion, so long as you enjoy it.

Vocal technique is important, regardless of style. Different styles might have their own variations on the rules, but the basic principles remain the same.

Technique simply has to do with sound quality. You can listen to pop music on a damaged speaker system and still enjoy it, but the exact same song sounds so much better on a good system. The basic goal with any instrument is to produce the best sound that you can in the most efficient way possible (and doing so also limits the strain that you place on your voice, as an added bonus).

Technique can influence the emotional impact of a song as well. Imagine listening to a catchy rock song with the bass muted. Sure, you can hear the melody, but it's obvious that there's something missing. Similarily, if you don't make proper use of your diaphragm when you sing, you're only using part of your vocal capabilities. The richness of the sound is lost, and even when you try to put some punch into a note, it still ends up sounding rather lackluster.

Aimo, for example, is nice on the ears due to its phonetics, but the original version lacks punch. So when Sakamoto performs the same song, you still get the nice pure sound from the phonetics, but you can instantly tell the difference in sound quality. It's a similar situation with Diamond Crevasse. There's no problem with the style or the notes; but you can hear that the richness of the sound is missing, and with it, the emotional impact.

That being said, this issue isn't so important for most of the songs that Nakajima sings, so for the most part, everything works out fine.

While you might not care for a discussion on technique, it allows people to pinpoint specific details about why they liked or didn't like a song. You might not be able to agree on an emotional level, but at least it enables you to see where the other person is coming from. Besides, professional musicians of all styles dedicate their lives to that craft, sterile though it may appear. So it's nothing to frown upon.
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Old 2008-07-18, 11:01   Link #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I don't know what you critics are talking about. That episode was great, especially all -- and I mean all -- the music. It seems to me you must have too-definite preconceptions of how certain songs should be sung. And if vocal perfection is so important, we might as well all listen to opera, and forget about pop music altogether. Pop music is about art and emotion, not about sterile technique. My apologies for going overboard, but you struck a nerve.

I thought May'N and Nakajima Megumi were wonderful singing together. They will be doing it live, too. Here is a pic of them rehearsing -- or maybe just playing around during rehearsal, I'm not sure (click to enlarge):



And in my opinion, there were plenty of developments in that episode, more than enough to allow us to enjoy a bit of rerun.

Inoue Kikuko is just excellent as Grace. And Endou Aya has such a beautiful voice playing Sheryl.
I take offense over your opinion on music on this post. Some voices do not work with some songs, at least in the way the songs are portrayed. There ARE versions that are better than others.

This reminds me of the Pop artists who go and remake classic Rock and Roll songs. Complete rip-offs that don't sound half as good as the originals. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

I think Sheryl wouldn't be able to bring out Aimo as well as Ranka and her mom could. However, Ranka obviously can't bring out DC as well as Sheryl can. It's how the songs are sung, and what the singers are capable of doing.
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Old 2008-07-18, 11:07   Link #116
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
...Vocal technique is important, regardless of style.... [Lots of interesting stuff omitted].... Besides, professional musicians of all styles dedicate their lives to that craft, sterile though it may appear. So it's nothing to frown upon.
Well, of course I went overboard, as I said. As usual, this comes from another movie: I am consistently put off by the way Japanese seiyuu otaku seem to like only a narrow range of technically excellent seiyuu, and don't seem to me to appreciate seiyuu with distinctive styles or more ability to express emotion, but who are less technically perfect.

But I still disagree with much of what you wrote, probably since I prefer a rougher sound to the excessively expert, but to me boring, rock and pop that I hear too much of. You are clearly talking about this from a musician's point of view, which I deeply respect. But in fact I think musicians tend to have different standards from fans, and especially from me. I think the best pop music is less expert and has more spirit. I tried to make it clear that I was talking about my own opinions here. But do you really think that star musicians get better over time? They may get more technically perfect, but their music is often most enjoyable near the beginning of their careers, it seems to me.

I disagree that less richness of sound necessarily means less emotional impact. I think that vocal technique and sound quality can be a snare and a delusion to musicians, diverting them from the things that really make good pop music: phrasing, sensitivity to lyrics and to rhythms, emotional hooks, real feeling, etc.

And if technique and sound quality really are equivalent, as you said, I consider my case proved, since sound quality is clearly not the be-all and end-all, as proven by the fact that people are largely turning to mp3's over CDs.

I can certainly see where people are coming from, and I probably come from that place myself, sometimes. It is best when a singer has both emotion and technique, as with Onitsuka Chihiro, for example. But I also think we often reject a different singer's interpretation of a song because we are too used to one version, and can't hear what's good about the new one.

By the way, I actually like a lot of classical vocal music -- lieder, choral music, some opera. There, technique is more important, but the spirit of the music and of the performance still counts for a lot. And, of course, even in pop music, really horrible technique remains really horrible.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2008-07-18 at 17:40.
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Old 2008-07-18, 11:26   Link #117
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a very long talk in this episode, but the part in the hospital is nice, especially the song sing by Sheryl and Ranka together, real war is started(in term of getting Alto).

the story now is more exciting, but alway stop in a mid way then like ntg happen. Actually what Grace and her comrade want? hopefully more clue in the anime.
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Old 2008-07-18, 11:28   Link #118
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I am no musician, so I know absolutely nothing about who is a technically good singer or not. It's the lack of emotion that is exactly the reason why I don't like the Ranka DC version. May'n is able to convey so much emotion in her version, but I get nothing like that from Megumi unfortunately.
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Old 2008-07-18, 12:54   Link #119
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by zalem View Post
I am no musician, so I know absolutely nothing about who is a technically good singer or not. It's the lack of emotion that is exactly the reason why I don't like the Ranka DC version. May'n is able to convey so much emotion in her version, but I get nothing like that from Megumi unfortunately.
I think I know what you are referring to, but I consider that emotion to be surface emotion. It's beautiful, but that controlled emotion is not any better than the subtler emotion in how the less adept Nakajima-san sings. That is precisely what I object to in how otaku see seiyuu: they think all emotion has to be projected, which often seems fake to me. It's just my opinion, but that's how I hear it.

But I don't want to overplay this any more than I already have. Professional singers are almost all superior to seiyuu-singers, musically as well as technically. The only exceptions I know of are Hayami Saori, Mizuki Nana, and Sakamoto Maaya. And I still don't get Nana-chan's appeal, although I can hear how able she is.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2008-07-18 at 13:05.
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Old 2008-07-18, 13:59   Link #120
Sleepy100
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Kaoru

I believe you forgot Megumi Hayashibara. As for the song they sang in the hospital, after listening to the sound track for like the fiftieth time, I believe the one they sang was different than what was on the OST track. Different as in the hospital, they sang as a duet, while @ Forma was more like Ranka being the lead singer with Sheryl being a supporter/background singer.

PS I guess what I'm trying to say is that in the @ Forma song, Sheryl didn't have enough solo lines to actually make it a duet.

Last edited by Sleepy100; 2008-07-18 at 14:16.
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