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View Poll Results: Favorite Pairing in Code Geass R2
Lelouch Stays Single 141 13.51%
Lelouch x C.C. 678 64.94%
Lelouch x Kallen 340 32.57%
Lelouch x Millay 54 5.17%
Lelouch x Harem 121 11.59%
Suzaku Stays Single 148 14.18%
Suzaku x Nunally 60 5.75%
Lloyd x Millay 23 2.20%
Viletta x Ougi 179 17.15%
Rival x Millay 93 8.91%
Lloyd x Cecile 116 11.11%
Kanon x Nina 45 4.31%
Xing-ke x Tianzi 150 14.37%
Todou x Chiba 81 7.76%
Gino x Anya 52 4.98%
Cornelia x Guilford 142 13.60%
Zero x Kaguya 87 8.33%
Others (please list) 96 9.20%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1044. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-11-18, 16:22   Link #9961
demon_god04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
...No, it's not. At least not in my opinion.
But when Kallen starts ordering Lelouch to love her, and Lelouch answers with "Yes, your Highness!", and they start turning into Euphemia and Suzaku... well, then I'll at least stop arguing.
Then you are ignoring the type of development that Kallen and Lelouch as had all season and to an extent even from the start of season one. The development of their relationship was never a Euphie and Suzaku clone nor are Euphie and Suzaku's "romance" even a satisfactory model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Protip: intelligent conversation is not possible when one of the two parties proclaims themselves sole judge of what is logical and what is not.
Protip: intelligent debate is impossible when one of two parties resorts to childish sarcasim and selectively ignore points and people if things don't go their way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Even if it's "canon" (which I somehow doubt), I'm still not convinced by this "he returns her feelings" thing.
Oh well. I doesn't really matter.
Lelouch is "dead", which means he's single, which means I "won".
Except if "heaven" is a dating centre. ;P
There is a concept of basically a lasting marriage that basically two people are joined in marriage even if one dies. There is also the concept of ghost marriages in some cultures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Dawn View Post
Of course it's fine not to agree with kalulu or any other ship. But nogitsune has openly admitted she doesn't care about material that is canon. What are we supposed to say?
Nothing. When someone has outright said they will ignore any new information that has come out from the staff and will only look at what is shown in the anime then you can only debate from that perspective or just not bother at all.
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Old 2008-11-18, 16:25   Link #9962
Eliarine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
? Is insult someone to say that dismissing facts coming from the staff because they don't agree with your view isn't really serious ?
Why yes, it is. Because that's not what we're doing. I get the feeling that you won't believe me, but whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Protip: intelligent debate is impossible when one of two parties resorts to childish sarcasim and selectively ignore points and people if things don't go their way.
I'm not selectively ignoring points, dear. I'm saying I don't agree with your interpretation of them. Which makes me lolillogical, apparently. It's okay, kind of getting used to your way of "discussing".
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Old 2008-11-18, 16:34   Link #9963
incorrupts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
I'm not selectively ignoring points, dear. I'm saying I don't agree with your interpretation of them. Which makes me lolillogical, apparently. It's okay, kind of getting used to your way of "discussing".
Alright, seriously now, do you ignore the Newtype booklet or you don't agree with how Kalulu fans interpet it? Cause it is kind of default that Newtype booklets come from the stuff and the "mutual" kiss segment do not leave a lot of room to argue.
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Old 2008-11-18, 16:37   Link #9964
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
Then you are ignoring the type of development that Kallen and Lelouch as had all season and to an extent even from the start of season one.
No. I just always viewed Lelouch's feelings for her as that of a close friend, not a lover.
And the new "canon" material doesn't convince me otherwise.


Quote:
The development of their relationship was never a Euphie and Suzaku clone
Never said that.

Quote:
nor are Euphie and Suzaku's "romance" even a satisfactory model.
But it was canon.
And that was my point.

Quote:
There is a concept of basically a lasting marriage that basically two people are joined in marriage even if one dies. There is also the concept of ghost marriages in some cultures.
Yep, certainly sounds romantic. xD

Quote:
Nothing. When someone has outright said they will ignore any new information that has come out from the staff and will only look at what is shown in the anime then you can only debate from that perspective or just not bother at all.
Agreed!
Not to mention that I interprete the booklet differently.
(It was just a kiss, damn it! Mutual or not.)
Then again, I don't know much Japanese, so I have to rely on what people offer me as a translation.
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Old 2008-11-18, 16:42   Link #9965
Eliarine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyless View Post
Alright, seriously now, do you ignore the Newtype booklet or you don't agree with how Kalulu fans interpet it? Cause it is kind of default that Newtype booklets come from the stuff and the "mutual" kiss segment do not leave a lot of room to argue.
I don't agree with the interpretations. I never saw Lelouch's feelings towards Kallen as romantical, and a "mutual chuu" line from some dude in a NT booklet is not going to suddenly make me change my mind. Especially when I remember Kallen's reaction to said kiss in episode 22.

I don't mind people interpreting stuff as positive for their pairing, but you don't need to go around insulting anyone else's opinions to celebrate.
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Old 2008-11-18, 16:45   Link #9966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
I don't agree with the interpretations. I never saw Lelouch's feelings towards Kallen as romantical, and a "mutual chuu" line from some dude in a NT booklet is not going to suddenly make me change my mind. Especially when I remember Kallen's reaction to said kiss in episode 22.
Yeah well except that it was not a random dude. And what do you mean about Kallen's reaction? You wanted her to act like a social-butterfly or something? She was confused and had a conflicted heart at the moment, that was the face she was supposed to have?
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Old 2008-11-18, 16:49   Link #9967
Grey Dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
I don't agree with the interpretations. I never saw Lelouch's feelings towards Kallen as romantical, and a "mutual chuu" line from some dude in a NT booklet is not going to suddenly make me change my mind. Especially when I remember Kallen's reaction to said kiss in episode 22.

I don't mind people interpreting stuff as positive for their pairing, but you don't need to go around insulting anyone else's opinions to celebrate.
Okay, so you accept that he returned the kiss now? Forget feelings, just that he returned the kiss.

So, for the fourth time, I will ask you for your reasonings about how returning a french kiss fits with a just friends relationship.
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Old 2008-11-18, 16:50   Link #9968
demon_god04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
No. I just always viewed Lelouch's feelings for her as that of a close friend, not a lover.
And the new "canon" material doesn't convince me otherwise.

Never said that.

But it was canon.
And that was my point.
And I can point out that the progression of Kallen's development throughout the entire series was essentially directed at Lelouch with common literary romantic devices thrown in as well as the new material coming out that seems to be more Kallen and Lelouch centric.

My reply was more that your point seemed to be that somehow Suzaku and Euphie is like some standard to romantic development. If it was not then that is fine.

Quote:
Yep, certainly sounds romantic. xD

Agreed!
Not to mention that I interprete the booklet differently.
(It was just a kiss, damn it! Mutual or not.)
Then again, I don't know much Japanese, so I have to rely on what people offer me as a translation.
Well, the eternal marriage thing may be but the ghost marriage is more of a cultural necessity for the raising of children with the deceased father's name more then anything. Although there was an interesting case of the ghost of the dead husband possessing his wife and the shaman interpreted the signs as the husband wanting a second wife so the deceased groom's family got together a bride price and then getting a second wife for the dead guy.

There was a discussion about the wording of the kiss thing and Lie explained the grammer and usage of the words.
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Old 2008-11-18, 16:50   Link #9969
Eliarine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyless View Post
Yeah well except that it was not a random dude.
Do we even know who wrote the booklet? Those who translate stuff from magazines usually warn us to take everything with a grain of salt. Why should I suddenly take interpretations of a line from those as canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyless View Post
And what do you mean about Kallen's reaction? You wanted her to act like a social-butterfly or something? She was confused and had a conflicted heart at the moment, that was the face she was supposed to have?
Anything other than that "Oh God, I'm so sad Lelouch doesn't return my feelings ;__;" face.
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Old 2008-11-18, 16:50   Link #9970
bladeofdarkness
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actually her face was showing signs of strong emotional response (her eyes shimering)
her "bad" reaction came only from seeing the lelouch's face wasnt showing the same expression
she felt something in that kiss (hence her face)
but she was under the impression that lelouch hadnt felt anything from it (or that it wasnt enough to make him drop the mask)
but from what we saw after she left it did leave an impect (the downcast "not showing eyes" sayonara kallen look)
he was just able to mask for a short while longer
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Old 2008-11-18, 16:53   Link #9971
incorrupts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
Anything other than that "Oh God, I'm so sad Lelouch doesn't return my feelings ;__;" face.
I think we have already elaborated that Lulu surely knows how to keep his mask on when he wants. Kallen just realized it a bit too late. :/
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Old 2008-11-18, 17:00   Link #9972
Eliarine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyless View Post
I think we have already elaborated that Lulu surely knows how to keep his mask on when he wants. Kallen just realized it a bit too late. :/
If it is sooo obvious that friends don't return kisses like Lelouch did with her, then I guess Kallen is just as stupid as me for taking this as proof that the guy didn't like her that way.

But the way I see it...that would make her really stupid.
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Old 2008-11-18, 17:03   Link #9973
Grey Dawn
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So you're dodging the actual question and trying to change the subject to something that is completely obvious in its answer so you don't have to answer the question.

In other words, for the fourth time I will be ignored. What do you think this says about how reasonable you are?

@Nogitsune: We aren't saying our pairing is cannon. We're saying he returned the kiss she initiated and discussing what that means. Okay?
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Old 2008-11-18, 17:03   Link #9974
Nogitsune
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Hm... yes, I can understand how Kallen missed the second tongue in her mouth.

Errr... anyway.
If Kalulu is really canon, then I'm quite sure that we'll get to hear/see a Sound Drama or Picture Episode in which Lelouch contemplates her feelings for her.
Those things were made over less "important" issues.
If that happens, I'll shut up about this, but until that happens, I won't accept any "extra info", except if its content is as clear as: "Yes, people, he was in love with her her!"

But even then that wouldn't change much for me.
It's like the ending. When I watched it for the first time, I got a feeling that was a result of the 0,1% possibility that Lelouch might still be out there, immortal and pissed because of it.
Now we were told that this possibility doesn't exist, but even though I know that, I still feel the same way about the ending and, therefore, can't "be sure" that he is death.
[It's the staff's own fault for not clearing it up in the anime. This goes for Kalulu even more. ;P]

Whoever thinks that doesn't make sense... just forget about it. xD
I'll accept Kalulu fans thinking of their pairing as "canon", but I won't until there is at least a Sound Drama about it.
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Old 2008-11-18, 17:06   Link #9975
demon_god04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
I'm not selectively ignoring points, dear. I'm saying I don't agree with your interpretation of them. Which makes me lolillogical, apparently. It's okay, kind of getting used to your way of "discussing".
Just because you do not agree does not make you illogical. Generally how one phrases their argument and what they use to back their points determine that. For example I have argued with Orga on many counts on Suzaku yet I did not view him as illogical and hell it was even an enjoyable experience for both of us despite us not agreeing. I'd say the same for Var as well when we were arguing whether Kallen was Bismark's daughter or not. (By the way Var if you are reading this, Kallen is so not Bismark's daughter. )

Saying you do not agree and then relying on sarcastic comments or changing the subject when your points are refuted are not exactly logical arguments.
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Old 2008-11-18, 17:08   Link #9976
Eliarine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Dawn View Post
So you're dodging the actual question and trying to change the subject to something that is completely obvious in its answer so you don't have to answer the question.

In other words, for the fourth time I will be ignored. What do you think this says about how reasonable you are?
Act 1:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Dawn View Post
Okay, so you accept that he returned the kiss now? Forget feelings, just that he returned the kiss.

So, for the fourth time, I will ask you for your reasonings about how returning a french kiss fits with a just friends relationship.
Act 2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliarine View Post
If it is sooo obvious that friends don't return kisses like Lelouch did with her, then I guess Kallen is just as stupid as me for taking this as proof that the guy didn't like her that way.

But the way I see it...that would make her really stupid.
I'm not ignoring anything, unless you're really missing the point. Kallen not understanding that Lelouch luvs her if his reaction is so obviously not that of a mere friend makes her too stupid for me to believe it.
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Old 2008-11-18, 17:09   Link #9977
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Dawn View Post
So you're dodging the actual question and trying to change the subject to something that is completely obvious in its answer so you don't have to answer the question.

In other words, for the fourth time I will be ignored. What do you think this says about how reasonable you are?

@Nogitsune: We aren't saying our pairing is cannon. We're saying he returned the kiss she initiated and discussing what that means. Okay?
its ok
no one actually relates to my post either

Spoiler for kallen's actual reaction:
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Old 2008-11-18, 17:10   Link #9978
Grey Dawn
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So you responded with the exact same thing, another attempt to change the subject to Kallen's thoughts on the matter.

...

I'm not talking about Kallen's thoughts. Kallen's thoughts in this are completely irrelevant. I'm talking about your thoughts about Lelouch's actions.

@bladeofdarkness: I remember your post. I agree, its why I said the answer to where hes trying to turn the subject to is obvious. I'm just annoyed at his absolute refusal to even discuss his opinions. I know its futile, but I feel like trying anyway.
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Old 2008-11-18, 17:11   Link #9979
Jaime Kordek
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Isn't the internet great? People from all over the world can get together and argue about which fictional characters love each other.

but leaving my inane comments aside, Eliarine, it's quite possible that during the kiss she felt as though he was returning it, but then upon seeing his face, assumed he had been doing that just to be a jerk. However, it is also possible that he returned the kiss more out of a way to say goodbye to her then because he was in lurrrve. And just because he did or did not return the kiss does not mean he showed his true emotions while doing so.
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Old 2008-11-18, 17:11   Link #9980
Nogitsune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Dawn View Post
@Nogitsune: We aren't saying our pairing is cannon. We're saying he returned the kiss she initiated and discussing what that means. Okay?
Errr... I think you missed something.
Quite a few people called the pairing either "canon" or "closest to canon" or "as good as canon".
Oh well.
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