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Old 2008-08-03, 18:14   Link #21
bbduece
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You are right Nor Cal consist of many counties but because of the city of San Francisco has rich history, news coming from this area usually revolves around SF Bay Area. When you have parades or protest in Norcal, these events are usualy magnified in San Francisco thus providing the Illusion that the whole Northern California is a liberal state. All these conservative counties don't really reach the media so they carry less weight when other people view this area. In the bay, Berkely is actually the most liberal city in California and ranks 3rd nation wide.

You are right the the whole California is not completely liberal but just more so than some states. The north east is actually the most liberal.

are these reliable sources?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1461517/posts
http://www.epodunk.com/top10/liberal/index.html
http://www.govpro.com/News/Article/31439/

If you look at the map on epodunk, cali is barely covered with liberal cities but why do people repeatedly assumed that Cali is a liberal State? SF Bay Area carries more wieght in the media and the media is manipulative.

LA area is bigger (they are probably more influential in the media) and they are not liberal but most people don't look at that since everywhere else is conservative so it doesn't draw attention when liberal issues are being discuss.

Last edited by bbduece; 2008-08-03 at 18:25.
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Old 2008-08-03, 18:51   Link #22
aznegglover
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I doubt that
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Old 2008-08-03, 19:28   Link #23
nines
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Mmm well i live in California im 15 years old i guess teenager through like 25 or so is your range for "Youths" but hell no this state isnt as conservative as most people think. Theirs trash like every one and a fck load of illegal aliens here.

Yes they're alot of people who do eat healty, use hybrids, recycle, and use economicaly safe products. But thats probably a rough estimation about only 2/5s of California. I recycle just because I drink alot of soda and sobe and shit and its good money when i turn it in...well it used to be got cheap as hell now cause of gas prices <.< i do eat vegetables and stuff but im one of the weird "youths" thats actually gives a shit. Most people who you see who arn't white are not conservative at all they litter and shit and just do shit to piss people off. Im not generalizing a whole ethnicity like saying all black people are in gangs or some shit but a majority of them do this kinda crap and yea the wealthier black people or wealthier mexicans probably do all the economical crap.

Basically you will see like some people trying to make this a nice place but yea their white and ive seen it so damn much i can say it like that freely white people are just cleaner people who are like in 20s+. but Highschoolers and stuff....no lol so ya NO Califonia sucks lived here 15 years i can say i hate this place more than Florida >.>

Plus i appologize for my bad grammar and if most of you cant understand one damn word i say i tend to jam things up into one huge sentance. I know bad habit x.x
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Old 2008-08-04, 21:02   Link #24
bbduece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nines View Post
Mmm well i live in California im 15 years old i guess teenager through like 25 or so is your range for "Youths" but hell no this state isnt as conservative as most people think. Theirs trash like every one and a fck load of illegal aliens here.

Yes they're alot of people who do eat healty, use hybrids, recycle, and use economicaly safe products. But thats probably a rough estimation about only 2/5s of California. I recycle just because I drink alot of soda and sobe and shit and its good money when i turn it in...well it used to be got cheap as hell now cause of gas prices <.< i do eat vegetables and stuff but im one of the weird "youths" thats actually gives a shit. Most people who you see who arn't white are not conservative at all they litter and shit and just do shit to piss people off. Im not generalizing a whole ethnicity like saying all black people are in gangs or some shit but a majority of them do this kinda crap and yea the wealthier black people or wealthier mexicans probably do all the economical crap.

Basically you will see like some people trying to make this a nice place but yea their white and ive seen it so damn much i can say it like that freely white people are just cleaner people who are like in 20s+. but Highschoolers and stuff....no lol so ya NO Califonia sucks lived here 15 years i can say i hate this place more than Florida >.>

Plus i appologize for my bad grammar and if most of you cant understand one damn word i say i tend to jam things up into one huge sentance. I know bad habit x.x
U got some racial issues or atleast your wording sounds like it. Take a sociology course when u hit college.
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Old 2008-08-05, 00:39   Link #25
bleachfanxd
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Yes, I believe they are more conservative.
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Old 2008-08-05, 08:32   Link #26
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nines View Post
Mmm well i live in California im 15 years old i guess teenager through like 25 or so is your range for "Youths" but hell no this state isnt as conservative as most people think. Theirs trash like every one and a fck load of illegal aliens here.

Yes they're alot of people who do eat healty, use hybrids, recycle, and use economicaly safe products. But thats probably a rough estimation about only 2/5s of California. I recycle just because I drink alot of soda and sobe and shit and its good money when i turn it in...well it used to be got cheap as hell now cause of gas prices <.< i do eat vegetables and stuff but im one of the weird "youths" thats actually gives a shit. Most people who you see who arn't white are not conservative at all they litter and shit and just do shit to piss people off. Im not generalizing a whole ethnicity like saying all black people are in gangs or some shit but a majority of them do this kinda crap and yea the wealthier black people or wealthier mexicans probably do all the economical crap.

Basically you will see like some people trying to make this a nice place but yea their white and ive seen it so damn much i can say it like that freely white people are just cleaner people who are like in 20s+. but Highschoolers and stuff....no lol so ya NO Califonia sucks lived here 15 years i can say i hate this place more than Florida >.>

Plus i appologize for my bad grammar and if most of you cant understand one damn word i say i tend to jam things up into one huge sentance. I know bad habit x.x
Despite what the word might sound like, conservative does not mean "enviromentally friendly" as you seem to think. It's a politcal position which is too complicated for me to explain and I probably don't understand it myself. It's often used as a synonym for Republican but that might be an oversimplification.
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Old 2008-08-05, 15:37   Link #27
bbduece
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Liberals generally want less goverment control and more equality especially for the "middle" (middle class is debatable since most believe it is around $100,000 annual family income while others are saying it is more around the $200,000+ range) and lower class. Things like pro choice is a liberal view.

Conservative likes more goverment control in areas such has the legality of marriage (most conservatives lean away from gay marriage) and favors more traditional way of thinking.

Democrats are usually more on the liberal views while Republicans are generally more conservative (this is not 100% but it should explain a bit about conservative vs liberals).
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Old 2008-08-06, 18:30   Link #28
raikage
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It's important to differentiate between social xxxx and economic xxxx.

Economic conservatives are generally for less government influence in the market.
Economic liberals are often for more government influence in the market.

Social conservatives are often what people think of when they talk about the religious right. More government influence in private lives.
Social liberals are for less government influence in people's lives -- generally when people talk about pro-choice, or legalizing drugs, or things like that.

Hawks/doves can be on either side. A person who might be against the Iraq occupation may be in favor of military intervention in Darfur.

Libertarians are economic conservatives and social liberals -- that is, for less government overall.

Fascists and authoritarians would be economic liberals and social conservatives -- that is, for more government influence everywhere.
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Old 2008-08-06, 23:47   Link #29
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raikage View Post
It's important to differentiate between social xxxx and economic xxxx.

Economic conservatives are generally for less government influence in the market.
Economic liberals are often for more government influence in the market.

Social conservatives are often what people think of when they talk about the religious right. More government influence in private lives.
Social liberals are for less government influence in people's lives -- generally when people talk about pro-choice, or legalizing drugs, or things like that.

Hawks/doves can be on either side. A person who might be against the Iraq occupation may be in favor of military intervention in Darfur.

Libertarians are economic conservatives and social liberals -- that is, for less government overall.

Fascists and authoritarians would be economic liberals and social conservatives -- that is, for more government influence everywhere.
And to further complicate things, both the historic far left and far right (commies and fascists, essentially) are both economically "liberal" and socially "conservative" in this pro-libertarian model; on the other hand, "moderates" aren't necessarily economically conservative and socially liberal either. We shall not of course even attempt to ask where libertines and libertarians would fit on this left-right spectrum; moreover the commonly accepted model above, at first glance perfectly logical and efficient, is utterly unable to distinguish the underlying motives of different ideological viewpoints, much less something like difference of opinions on individual issues.

The joy of politics.
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Old 2008-08-07, 01:09   Link #30
Vexx
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This is why I refuse to answer linear "ideological spectrum" questions on survey polls.
(Do you consider yourself 1) flaming communist? 2) progressive? ......... 3) conservative? 4) fiery fascist?) The two dimensional scale is stupid and misleading.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:36   Link #31
flowerkill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
Really? As a "Cali Youth", this is kinda news to me. I'm definitely not conservative, personally (just about the only liberal measure I oppose is Affirmative Action). Then again, my teens are coming to an end, so I dunno if that's too old for you...
it's ironic, this opposition against AA. It comes from a false perception that blacks and whites start from the same point, so giving blacks a leg up is seen as unfair.
That blacks and whites leave from the same starting point is of course ludicrous.
try driving around in the back of a car with two black men sitting in front. It's really shocking how much you get pulled over. The weird thing is, they totally seem to accept this situation.

There's a nice parallel between blacks and poor whites:
African Americans, at some levels, have completely internalized the perception that black culture is inferior to white culture.

And poor whites have completely internalized that voting conservative is good for them because of some cultural issues, even if this means worse healthcare and education for their kids and a crumbling infrastructure. So, basically they sacrifice their kids to some idealogistic issuess:
- Having guns (which the Democrats don't really oppose anyway, but get painted as the villains nonetheless)
- international 'security' issues.
- tax breaks for the wealthy, this one is really insane. Poor whites have been talked into drinking the Kool-aid that it's better for them to vote for a party that gives money to the rich, instead of tax breaks to the poor and middle class families. You gotta admire all the Rovian spin on that one. Especially if you consider that the wealthy and upper middle class don't tend to invest in America, but invest overseas, or in companies that ship jobs overseas. That's not evil, that's simply good business sense. Overseas ow wage businesses are simply more profitable.

Also, think about this one for laughs. After WW2, us troops have been in Germany and Japan for 50 years or more, this the troop presence mccain wants. Partly because of that, German and Japanese infrastructure is the best in the world, surely MUCH better than America. Why do rightwingers insist on showing Iraq the same courtesy? How are Halliburton built, US taxpayer funded Iraqi bridges exactly helping poor whites over here??? Riddle me that.
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Old 2008-08-07, 15:47   Link #32
flowerkill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
And to further complicate things, both the historic far left and far right (commies and fascists, essentially) are both economically "liberal" and socially "conservative" in this pro-libertarian model; on the other hand, "moderates" aren't necessarily economically conservative and socially liberal either. We shall not of course even attempt to ask where libertines and libertarians would fit on this left-right spectrum; moreover the commonly accepted model above, at first glance perfectly logical and efficient, is utterly unable to distinguish the underlying motives of different ideological viewpoints, much less something like difference of opinions on individual issues.

The joy of politics.
Also the recent rise of muslim immigrant issues has confused both left and right.

The left seems confused because they're traditionally champions of minorities, but they're against Muslim stances on women (honor killings) and headscarfs etc.

The right seems confused since they're traditionally NOT pro minorities, but the muslims are at times a very conservative bunch who agree with conservatives on limited roles for women.

and so it goes round and round
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Old 2008-08-07, 19:36   Link #33
bbduece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerkill View Post
it's ironic, this opposition against AA. It comes from a false perception that blacks and whites start from the same point, so giving blacks a leg up is seen as unfair.
That blacks and whites leave from the same starting point is of course ludicrous.
try driving around in the back of a car with two black men sitting in front. It's really shocking how much you get pulled over. The weird thing is, they totally seem to accept this situation.

There's a nice parallel between blacks and poor whites:
African Americans, at some levels, have completely internalized the perception that black culture is inferior to white culture.

And poor whites have completely internalized that voting conservative is good for them because of some cultural issues, even if this means worse healthcare and education for their kids and a crumbling infrastructure. So, basically they sacrifice their kids to some idealogistic issuess:
- Having guns (which the Democrats don't really oppose anyway, but get painted as the villains nonetheless)
- international 'security' issues.
- tax breaks for the wealthy, this one is really insane. Poor whites have been talked into drinking the Kool-aid that it's better for them to vote for a party that gives money to the rich, instead of tax breaks to the poor and middle class families. You gotta admire all the Rovian spin on that one. Especially if you consider that the wealthy and upper middle class don't tend to invest in America, but invest overseas, or in companies that ship jobs overseas. That's not evil, that's simply good business sense. Overseas ow wage businesses are simply more profitable.

Also, think about this one for laughs. After WW2, us troops have been in Germany and Japan for 50 years or more, this the troop presence mccain wants. Partly because of that, German and Japanese infrastructure is the best in the world, surely MUCH better than America. Why do rightwingers insist on showing Iraq the same courtesy? How are Halliburton built, US taxpayer funded Iraqi bridges exactly helping poor whites over here??? Riddle me that.
Pretty much how things are. Life is unfair most people realize that and deal with it.

That fact that there is a term such as DWB (driving while black) should give off a hint.

There are different hot spots for concentrated liberal views and SF Bay Area is definitely one of them which correlates with the question ask on this thread.
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Old 2008-08-08, 02:34   Link #34
Reckoner
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To the OP:

The reason that you may be experiencing a lot of conservatism in San Diego is because there are military bases in the city.
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Old 2008-08-08, 10:34   Link #35
flowerkill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbduece View Post
Pretty much how things are. Life is unfair most people realize that and deal with it.
Dealing with it is not just accepting it. If we did that, the Japanese would still be in those internment camps 60 years after ...
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Old 2008-08-09, 15:38   Link #36
Maids! Maids! Maids!
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Originally Posted by Abashi View Post
California isn't a Democrat/Blue state. The state is mixed, it has generally favored Democrats on national races, but Republicans on local races. The state is ran by more Democrats with a moderate GOP governor, however the state population is predominately conservative and VERY REDNECK. Most of California is culturally and politically like a red state, with the exceptions being the Bay Area and Los Angeles Basin.

Some notable issues would be that: -) the most important political issues are the death penalty and immigration, California is more pro-death penalty than any other state even Texas; & -) also take into account that CA Democrats are generally more moderate while its Republicans are very right-wing.
Every bit of statistical data regarding voter registration, suggests the opposite of nearly every point you made. If we look at the political makeup of the state senate and assembly, it also seems to contradict your statement about local elections.

You can't generalize about the political makeup of such a large state by using the people you come into contact with in San Diego in much the same way I can't accurately generalize about it by using my contacts in San Francisco.

It's true that, until very recently, the percentage of registered Democrats in the state has declined. To a lesser extent, this is also true of Republican registered voters. However, over the last several months, there has been a surge in registration that appears to favor the Democrats. Democratic registration actually went up, while Republican registration went down.

Recent statewide local elections have also favored the Democrats. Here's the current breakdown of the state legislature:

State Assembly
Democrats: 48
Republicans: 32

State Senate
Democrats: 25
Republicans: 15

True, the governor is a Republican. However, the circumstances around his election were fairly unusual. As far as I know, with the exception of Insurance Commissioner and the judiciary, every other elected statewide office is held by a Democrat.

Lt. Governor: Democrat
Secretary of State: Democrat
Treasurer: Democrat
Attorney General: Democrat
Insurance Commissioner: Republican
Superintendent of Public Instruction: Democrat

Both U.S. Senators from the State of California are Democrats.

According to the "15-Day Report of Registration, May 19, 2008 for the June 3, Statewide Direct Primary Election," 43.5% of registered Californians are Democrats while 32.5% are Republicans.
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Old 2008-08-09, 19:32   Link #37
solomon
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Before I make my observations based on research let me just say this.

I think it's a tad.........well it's somewhat of a stretch I think to rely on postings on the internet. It isn't a good cross section of a community.

According to my informal research. I see that overall LA and the Bay are rather lefty. I don't think anyone will dispute that. However while the BAY AREA is overall lefty, the LA area (I call it southern california as defined by ABC 7, which is LA, Ventura, Orange, San Bern, and Riverside) Is diverse.

LA is lefties, Ventura is in the middle. The rest are righties (is that due to military, rural or old people?) I hear OC is soccer mom capital of the country.

By comparison;

Sacramento, I think is in the middle somewhat.

San Diego, Fresno, Bakersfield and San Bernadino are righty.

This is based on federal election results and congressional representatives and the Cook Partisan Index ratings (basically saying how far left or right a county or state is)

see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Partisan_Voting_Index




Interestingly, aside from San Diego. The pacific coast is quite lefty when you include western washington (Seatlle and the Puget Sound) and Oregon (Portland and The Willamette Valley)


Me, I live in Nothern Virginia which used to be righty tighty (due to soccer moms, Military and Rich folk) but now we SLIGHTLY lean left due to more diverse populations. Rest of VA is overall Righty Tighty cept for inner cities and college towns. How bout you all?
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Old 2008-08-09, 19:39   Link #38
solomon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
(Do you consider yourself 1) flaming communist? 2) progressive? ......... 3) conservative? 4) fiery fascist?) The two dimensional scale is stupid and misleading.
A Very astute observation. Unfortunetly due to millions of moderate voters not caring (thus leaving things to hardcores on both sides) and a shameless media simplifying things. We see our political discourse in either (Left or Right) or even worse (Good or Evil)
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Old 2008-08-09, 19:52   Link #39
mg1942
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Are Cali youth more conservative?

If you count in the immigrants, then yes Cali youth are (socially) Conservative.

Btw I used to live in 90029 Los Angeles area. There are a lot of place to go to worship.... ranging from Catholic to protestant churches that cater to Filipinos, Koreans, Hispanics, Armenians, etc.
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Old 2008-08-09, 20:02   Link #40
solomon
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That's an interesting facet, but isn't that just SOCIAL conservatism.

I bet if you talked to a lotta Hispanic Americans in Cali, young or Old one thing they wouldn't be conservative about IS IMMIGRATION.

I wonder how they're doing in Pheonix with that Looney Tooney sheriff of theirs.
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