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Old 2009-10-12, 13:44   Link #1001
Takamura Mamoru
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Maybe more like "too delusional".

People seem to forget that apart from being evil, she's also insane. As in, not rational.
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Old 2009-10-12, 15:03   Link #1002
spawnofthejudge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I wonder how Alicia would've reacted had she found out that she had a new little sister and her mother treated her like crap. >.>
The only real characterization we have of Alicia w/o Fate's neurosis coming from being abused so much was in what is essentially a dream constructed from Fate's desires. (We also had one scene, IIRC, of Alicia/Precia before Cataclysm) I'd love to see more on her characterization... and while I think it'd be really hard to pull off without ruining something, I'd love it to actually see her interact with Nanoha/Fate and Co.
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Old 2009-10-12, 17:42   Link #1003
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Yeah, that would be a trick to pull off convincingly.

I could go for actually seeing her interact though, it might be neat to see just how much of a contrast with Fate she really is.
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Old 2009-10-13, 00:41   Link #1004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takamura Mamoru View Post
Maybe more like "too delusional".

People seem to forget that apart from being evil, she's also insane. As in, not rational.
Evil is relative.

What I like is a good explanation, showing how a character becomes evil, which I felt was done well with Precia. It's not enough for me, for a character to just "be bad." Alicia was the center of Precia's world, and losing that, sent her into a deep depression that slowly warped her. That's what made her a good villian.

It's also why I like characters like Regius; he wanted to ultimately protect the world, but lost himself in trying too hard (which causes Hayate's reflection at the end of Strikers, feeling she may go too far as well). I've seen many a people develop the mindset of "we must destroy the village to save it." Sounds illogical, but there's a clear path that leads there, that traps minds.

I really wish we got more info on Jail's past and motivations. It's something I plan to rectify with the fic I'm writing. :P
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Old 2009-10-13, 00:51   Link #1005
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I figured Jail was a tool/weapon created to fill a need of expanding military might for a purpose of saving more lives, tho what from?

At least that question is something I can answer.
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Old 2009-10-13, 01:21   Link #1006
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Btw, truely mad people aren't rational enough to pull of schemes the size of Precia's. It's a cartoon misnomer. That in itself shows Precia to be relatively sane, albeit suffering from chronic bipolar disorder.

Bottomline though: it's just a fanon theory of mine, something that I came up with simply because it went against conventional "wisdom". I wanted to show an alternative take on everything. Regrettably, it is also why when people read my concepts they think I've turned the world upside down.

And so, for those readers, I decided to not change one little aspect, and cast Jail as Heath Ledger thus keeping his canon state of Joker-class villainy.
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Old 2009-10-13, 01:25   Link #1007
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I approve of Joker!Jail :P
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Old 2009-10-13, 08:17   Link #1008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Btw, truely mad people aren't rational enough to pull of schemes the size of Precia's. It's a cartoon misnomer. That in itself shows Precia to be relatively sane, albeit suffering from chronic bipolar disorder.
Precia never struck me as particularly insane, either. She definitely has psychological issues, but there was a certain rationale behind her main plan, and she stuck to that plan right to the end.
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Old 2009-10-13, 10:13   Link #1009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Precia never struck me as particularly insane, either. She definitely has psychological issues, but there was a certain rationale behind her main plan, and she stuck to that plan right to the end.
I have to agree. Toward the end there, when her plan was failing, she really lost it. But prior to that, she wasn't really mad, per se. Got horribly depressed when her daughter died, went through every method of research to see how to revive her, learned of alhazard, became convinced she could revive her daughter there.
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Old 2009-10-13, 15:38   Link #1010
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Yeah, the way I see it, Precia was more angry and obsessed, rather than insane. One can call her plan to reach Al Hazard insane, but not Precia herself.
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Old 2009-10-13, 16:59   Link #1011
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Yeah, the way I see it, Precia was more angry and obsessed, rather than insane. One can call her plan to reach Al Hazard insane, but not Precia herself.
Personally, I'd call her treatment of Fate de facto proof of insanity. Either she takes pleasure in inflicting pain on an innocent victim, which is clearly a form of mental illness; or she is suffering from some form of delusion which convinces her that Fate "deserves" such punishment, again a form of mental illness; or she is deliberately and intentionally treating Fate in this way as a method of psychological programming, in which case she's a sociopath and again, mentally ill.

Remember that one can be insane and still capable of operating in society, creating a plan, and taking intelligent, rational steps in pursuit of the plan (to wit, any successful serial killer).
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Old 2009-10-13, 17:08   Link #1012
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True. Dunno why I didn't take that into consideration when I made that post.
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Old 2009-10-13, 17:09   Link #1013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
Personally, I'd call her treatment of Fate de facto proof of insanity. Either she takes pleasure in inflicting pain on an innocent victim, which is clearly a form of mental illness; or she is suffering from some form of delusion which convinces her that Fate "deserves" such punishment, again a form of mental illness; or she is deliberately and intentionally treating Fate in this way as a method of psychological programming, in which case she's a sociopath and again, mentally ill.

Remember that one can be insane and still capable of operating in society, creating a plan, and taking intelligent, rational steps in pursuit of the plan (to wit, any successful serial killer).
I agree that she's a sociopath. I wouldn't consider a sociopath to necessarily be insane, however.

Lex Luthor, for example, is unquestionably a sociopath, but the man is brilliant and quite sane. He's simply evil.

To me, insane means that reality itself is massively distorted to you, either through actual hallucinations, extreme paranoia, bizarre goals that make no sense, or something of that nature.

Precia's desire to want her daughter back makes sense.
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Old 2009-10-13, 17:21   Link #1014
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I agree that she's a sociopath. I wouldn't consider a sociopath to be insane, however.

Lex Luthor, for example, is unquestionably a sociopath, but the man is brilliant and quite sane. He's simply evil.

To me, insane means that reality itself is massively distorted to you, either through actual hallucinations, extreme paranoia, bizarre goals that make no sense, or something of that nature.

Precia's desire to want her daughter back makes sense.
It's called Antisocial Personality Disorder for a reason.

Seriously, though--I know what you mean, she's not a raving looney who's incapable of functioning at all. But that doesn't make her sane; there's most definitely a sliding scale of mental illness from "mildly neurotic" (i.e. "almost everybody") through various high-functioning illness into the level of distortion you're thinking of.

But Precia goes way beyond the level of a Lex Luthor, Darth Vader, or other Evil Overlord type. Wanting her daughter back does not necessarily make you insane (Indeed, not feeling grief at Alicia's death would be a more abnormal response!). But in order to return her daughter, Precia engages in multiple kinds of illegal magical experimentation (artificial-mage cloning and using the Lost Logia Jewel Seeds), she tortures and abuses her own lackeys because she's incapable of dealing with their resemblance to her missing daughter, and she's willing to risk causing a dimensional disturbance that could kill billions (i.e. "the entire population of Non-Adminstered World 97"--plus whatever happens if it spreads) in order to attempt to travel somewhere no one has ever been in order to recover legendary lost magic that no one is sure actually exists. She's basically decided that resurrecting Alicia--something that's not even necessarily possible--is more important than the life of everyone else in the universe. If that doesn't qualify as a major distortion in her perception of reality, I don't know what does.
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Old 2009-10-13, 17:28   Link #1015
Takamura Mamoru
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First of all, irrationality has nothing to do with intelligence.
I can be a brilliant scientist and still be a megalomaniac who doesn't see his own end coming.

Also, Precia never was a big schemer. She was a brilliant scientist, that probably made a lot of breakthroughs, but she still is insane.

She didn't give up on going to Alhazard or whatever it's called even when the chance was already lost. Her desperation and depression made her mad and she craved for a magic "fixing" even though it wasn't even certain.

As I said, it's not about how evil her actions are but that she's literally irrational and delusional. She lost her grasp on reality quite a lot.
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Old 2009-10-13, 18:54   Link #1016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
But in order to return her daughter, Precia engages in multiple kinds of illegal magical experimentation (artificial-mage cloning and using the Lost Logia Jewel Seeds), she tortures and abuses her own lackeys because she's incapable of dealing with their resemblance to her missing daughter, and she's willing to risk causing a dimensional disturbance that could kill billions (i.e. "the entire population of Non-Adminstered World 97"--plus whatever happens if it spreads) in order to attempt to travel somewhere no one has ever been in order to recover legendary lost magic that no one is sure actually exists. She's basically decided that resurrecting Alicia--something that's not even necessarily possible--is more important than the life of everyone else in the universe. If that doesn't qualify as a major distortion in her perception of reality, I don't know what does.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I'm sure you've heard that before. And probably heard two people in some show somewhere, say that the other person is more important to them than anything. That's what Precia is following through on: Her daughter is more important to her than anyone or anything else.

She was quite aware of reality: She just didn't care. She wanted her daughter back. Someone who is insane doesn't perceive reality like we do. Precia was well aware that she needed a certain number of jewel seeds, and didn't think the amount she had would get her there. She also knew what might happen when she used them.

Truly insane people don't form long-term plans. They don't come up with plans at all. They act randomly, based on voices only they can hear, or things only they can see. If Precia had gone insane, she'd be talking with her dead daughter, nodding her head and listening, hearing her daughter's voice in her mind. Basically carrying on a conversation with a dead girl. Truly insane either can't see reality, or deny the reality the rest of us see. It's not insane to say, "Hey, I see this reality, but I don't like it, so I'm going to take steps to change it."

But at all times, Precia was aware of herself and her situation. I only think she really lost her sanity at the end there, when her plan had failed.
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Old 2009-10-13, 20:43   Link #1017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
It's called Antisocial Personality Disorder for a reason.

Seriously, though--I know what you mean, she's not a raving looney who's incapable of functioning at all. But that doesn't make her sane; there's most definitely a sliding scale of mental illness from "mildly neurotic" (i.e. "almost everybody") through various high-functioning illness into the level of distortion you're thinking of.

But Precia goes way beyond the level of a Lex Luthor, Darth Vader, or other Evil Overlord type. Wanting her daughter back does not necessarily make you insane (Indeed, not feeling grief at Alicia's death would be a more abnormal response!). But in order to return her daughter, Precia engages in multiple kinds of illegal magical experimentation (artificial-mage cloning and using the Lost Logia Jewel Seeds), she tortures and abuses her own lackeys because she's incapable of dealing with their resemblance to her missing daughter, and she's willing to risk causing a dimensional disturbance that could kill billions (i.e. "the entire population of Non-Adminstered World 97"--plus whatever happens if it spreads) in order to attempt to travel somewhere no one has ever been in order to recover legendary lost magic that no one is sure actually exists. She's basically decided that resurrecting Alicia--something that's not even necessarily possible--is more important than the life of everyone else in the universe. If that doesn't qualify as a major distortion in her perception of reality, I don't know what does.
I personally interpret this as simply very selfish and self-centered; not as outright insane. Precia's main problem is that Alicia is the only person that she cares about; the outside world beyond her and her biological daughter means nothing to her, and that's what makes her so dangerous, imo.

The reason I'm not too keen on Precia being viewed as insane (except at the very end; I think just about all of us can agree that she had clearly snapped by the time of her last face-to-face with Fate) is that I think it downplays her evil actions by extension. It takes an edge off of her, rather than giving her an edge, imo.

So... I pretty much agree with what Kaijo wrote above my post here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Takamura Mamoru View Post
First of all, irrationality has nothing to do with intelligence.
I can be a brilliant scientist and still be a megalomaniac who doesn't see his own end coming.

Also, Precia never was a big schemer. She was a brilliant scientist, that probably made a lot of breakthroughs, but she still is insane.

She didn't give up on going to Alhazard or whatever it's called even when the chance was already lost. Her desperation and depression made her mad and she craved for a magic "fixing" even though it wasn't even certain.

As I said, it's not about how evil her actions are but that she's literally irrational and delusional. She lost her grasp on reality quite a lot.
At the very end, probably, yes. But before her HQ was under siege by TSAB...
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Old 2009-10-13, 23:12   Link #1018
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An interview with the voice actors and creators

This interview was done after voice recording.
http://journal.mycom.co.jp/articles/...oha/index.html
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Old 2009-11-08, 00:11   Link #1019
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MGLN A's is aired again from October in Japan and commercials for THE MOVIE 1st are inserted in the re-airing program.
Episode 6 was already aired and each episode had 1 different CM so currently there are 6 kinds of CM.If they continue this pace until the last eipsode,they will be 13 kinds.

Here is a vid of the CMs(Sorry this is only for Niconico user)
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8744606

[0:00-0:15] vol 1
[0:15-0:30] vol 2
[0:30-0:45] vol 3
[0:45-1:00] vol 4
[1:00-1:30] vol 5
[1:30-1:59] vol 6

Vol 1,2,3,4 and 5 are like trailers.Vol 6 is a explaination by Subaru and Teana.
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Old 2009-11-25, 14:58   Link #1020
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Precia is S-ranked, if I recall. Barring, perhaps, Reinforce I don't believe we've ever seen a SSS-ranked mage.
Wait, but wasn't Hayate a SSS mage? If I'm not wrong it has been stated that she was the strongest...
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