AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-12-26, 13:53   Link #81
orangejuicetang
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Age: 23
So the 3rd novel is now fully translated

Spoiler for some chars:


Also, is it just me, or does each novel make ii-chan appear more and more abnormal?
__________________
WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN

If a corrupt court will not behead an evil king, than the watchman should do it himself.
orangejuicetang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-26, 19:11   Link #82
Kunagisa
赤緑黒白
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Spoiler for couple guesses:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
so aside from Ningen series, does she show up again in Zaregoto's main books at all?
Outside of Ii's random musings, I don't believe so (it's been a while though, and I still haven't finish the very last volume). However ...
Spoiler for Kinda related to Ningen but not sure:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Hmm, so I wonder if Shiogi is the only "strategist" character in the series, or if her entire family is. If she is the only strategist character, that could be an interesting reason for understanding why she's Nishio's favourite, particularly considering the way her concept contrasted with Ii-kun, the "scammer" main character.
I thought her mom is one of the four + one families of the Econimcal world, which I don't think was explored too heavily. Ma ... I can't shed too much light on this because I haven't read everything's related to this series ...

One more thing though, Hime-chan's the strongest character in the entire series in terms of pure fighting strength, which was a nice contrast to Shiogi's character type~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
Yeah, and Hime-chan is a bit like Hachikuji.
I like Hime-chan a lotttt more, cause she's so stupid. When Hachikuji appears it's none-stop neta talk = /me rivers of tears

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
Also, is it just me, or does each novel make ii-chan appear more and more abnormal?
For me, at least up until the end of arc one (vol 1-3), he is the "most normal" character, at least in comparison to everything/one else. The only part that made me ??? is when he fought Zerozaki to a standstill. WTF?!?!
Kunagisa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-27, 04:24   Link #83
Sean Gaffney
Nomad of the Time Streams
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunagisa View Post

For me, at least up until the end of arc one (vol 1-3), he is the "most normal" character, at least in comparison to everything/one else. The only part that made me ??? is when he fought Zerozaki to a standstill. WTF?!?!
It's hard to define Ii-chan as normal when the books are filtered through his unreliable narration. We've already had him outright lie to the reader a few times. And his avoidance tendencies make me feel confrontational by comparison.

The prologue to Book 4 seems to be done, by the way.
Spoiler:
Sean Gaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-27, 15:57   Link #84
Shikijin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunagisa View Post
One more thing though, Hime-chan's the strongest character in the entire series in terms of pure fighting strength, which was a nice contrast to Shiogi's character type~
There are stronger characters, like Jun Aikawa for example.

I read the translation of the first chapter of book 4, but there are some points wrong. Ayaminami Hyou is called "Cheetah" (because he is fast), not "Cheater". And the Mad Demon is "indulgence in depravation", not "Fallen Three-string".
Shikijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-27, 18:02   Link #85
Kunagisa
赤緑黒白
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
There are stronger characters, like Jun Aikawa for example.
Nisio says Hime-chan's strongest! Here's the excerpt:

Spoiler for spoiler past ... volume 6/7 I think, forgot which one:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Gaffney View Post
It's hard to define Ii-chan as normal when the books are filtered through his unreliable narration. We've already had him outright lie to the reader a few times. And his avoidance tendencies make me feel confrontational by comparison.
Normal people lie too .

All his actions seem logical enough at least early on (I assume you mean normal as in behavior, not intellectual level etc.; dude was in ER3 afterall).

PS: So awesome that people are still discussing this series. I do wish there are more official English translations though, I'd buy the series again just to read it in another language.
Kunagisa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-27, 21:45   Link #86
orangejuicetang
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunagisa View Post
For me, at least up until the end of arc one (vol 1-3), he is the "most normal" character, at least in comparison to everything/one else. The only part that made me ??? is when he fought Zerozaki to a standstill. WTF?!?!
Well, what I mean by getting more abnormal is sort of like this.

Volume 1: He's on an island filled with geniuses and eccentrics, so by comparison he seem like a simple normal person. Although there are a few hints thrown here and there mostly by other people's perceptions and comments on him like the mindreader Maki's, although nearly everybody's somewhat unreliable and deceptive. Still, compared to all those people, he seemed like he could just be a normal person.

Volume 2: This is where I felt I could see his abnormalness more clearly, since unlike volume 1, in this volume he's surrounded by more or less 'normal' people (not counting zerozaki). Actually the way he sort of sees Zerozaki as a mirror image first hints towards something of an abnormality, and the conversations and interactions with the rest of the normal 'students' sort of causes ii-chan's difference to show. Also, in light of the third novel, it's sort of interesting to remember Muimi's line near the end of the book, which went something like 'We got along so well, then as soon as you appeared everything went to shit'.

Volume 3: This is where people call more attention to his difference from normality and even begin theorizing about it, mostly Shiogi and Jun, that he's an 'aimless equation' or filled with 'missing parts' or the like.
__________________
WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN

If a corrupt court will not behead an evil king, than the watchman should do it himself.
orangejuicetang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-28, 09:00   Link #87
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
I just finished the 3rd novel translation, and wow... What a ride. I'll need a few hours at least to fully form my thoughts on this one, but then I'd like to slip in some of my impressions of Ii-chan before they slip away into forgetfulness.

Spoiler for Ii-chan:


In any case, Jun pestering Ii-chan with her assorted character impressions was many shades of awesome.
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-18, 18:06   Link #88
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Finally got around to reading Vol. 3.
Am I the only one kind of disappointed by Ikkun's character in this book? He's FAR crazier in Vol. 2... here he felt quite a bit more sanitized, and the story being more simple/straightforward didn't help matters.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-18, 19:45   Link #89
blackwhite67
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Where are you guys reading it? I can't find it anywhere.
blackwhite67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-18, 21:51   Link #90
Arczyx
None. ない. Nihil.
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
Where are you guys reading it? I can't find it anywhere.
Suimin Chuudoku

Of course, the volume 2 is not there.
__________________
Arczyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-18, 22:14   Link #91
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Finally got around to reading Vol. 3.
Am I the only one kind of disappointed by Ikkun's character in this book? He's FAR crazier in Vol. 2... here he felt quite a bit more sanitized, and the story being more simple/straightforward didn't help matters.
The thing about Ii-chan is that he likens himself to a passive observer. That is his default state of action. Volume 2 is what happens if he ends up getting too personally caught up in an incident and becomes an actual player. Still, the fact remains that nothing ever ends up well as long as he's involved.

Well, that's what I'd like to say, but he did seem to do quite a bit of interference in the events of the third volume, so I can't really say that he was all that passive. But then, I guess I should say that his talents lie with inductive reasoning and psychological warfare, so there wasn't much opportunity for him to use those talents. I probably didn't help that he ended up projecting Kunagisa Tomo onto Yukariki Ichihime for a good chunk of the novel.

You could probably say that his presence in the story was utterly pointless. You could probably even say that he made things even worse. At least two less people would have died if he didn't happen to come.
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-18, 22:49   Link #92
blackwhite67
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
I think Il coming off as broken should be no surprise at this point. I mean he's really been stressing it out in the first two volumes.
blackwhite67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 03:48   Link #93
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
The thing about Ii-chan is that he likens himself to a passive observer.
Just like every other light novel protagonist, which is rather frustrating, reading this now.
It's probably possible that Ikkun helped to inspire those kind of utterly boring characters though. Not that I think Ikkun himself is that boring as long as he's actually involved in things and isn't talking about how tsukkomi he is every three lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
You could probably say that his presence in the story was utterly pointless. You could probably even say that he made things even worse. At least two less people would have died if he didn't happen to come.
You could say the latter two statements about Vol. 2 as well, but at least there he felt like a major character.
Here it was pretty much The Jun Show and as much as I like her she really isn't all that interesting due to being entirely too overpowered. Much like Medaka, I guess.

I really hope the rest of the series is more like Vol. 2 than it is like Vol. 3. This was rather disappointing.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 11:52   Link #94
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Just like every other light novel protagonist, which is rather frustrating, reading this now.
It's probably possible that Ikkun helped to inspire those kind of utterly boring characters though. Not that I think Ikkun himself is that boring as long as he's actually involved in things and isn't talking about how tsukkomi he is every three lines.
I'd argue that that's the entire point of his character though. He's an utterly broken individual with nothing left within him except for an irrational devotion towards Kunagisa Tomo. Take that away and you'd have an empty husk with an equally empty set of rules that defines it's existence. In that sense, he's comparable to Hanekawa Tsubasa in Nekomonogatari Black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
You could say the latter two statements about Vol. 2 as well, but at least there he felt like a major character.
Here it was pretty much The Jun Show and as much as I like her she really isn't all that interesting due to being entirely too overpowered. Much like Medaka, I guess.
Well, I can't argue with that. Jun's flashiness easily overpowers Ii-chan's bland-ish character. Still, he didn't exactly do anything especially different from the things he did in the previous volume, so the difference is either Jun hogging the climax all to herself or how little control he had over the entire incident. That's reasonable, I guess.

I personally liked it since it places into perspective what exactly is wrong with his character to begin with, exactly what was unsettling about his interactions with the people around him.
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 12:29   Link #95
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
I'd argue that that's the entire point of his character though. He's an utterly broken individual with nothing left within him except for an irrational devotion towards Kunagisa Tomo. Take that away and you'd have an empty husk with an equally empty set of rules that defines it's existence. In that sense, he's comparable to Hanekawa Tsubasa in Nekomonogatari Black.
In the sense that most of what's visible of his personality is just an act in an attempt to seem like a normal person, yeah. Kumagawa is exactly like this too (though he barely even tries). I guess Nisio loves these kind of characters.
My problem is that I have some difficulty really buying into that in this case, I guess? Ikkun felt too human in this book, as compared to the previous.
Spoiler:
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 18:51   Link #96
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
In the sense that most of what's visible of his personality is just an act in an attempt to seem like a normal person, yeah. Kumagawa is exactly like this too (though he barely even tries). I guess Nisio loves these kind of characters.
My problem is that I have some difficulty really buying into that in this case, I guess? Ikkun felt too human in this book, as compared to the previous.
Spoiler:
For me, it was the opposite. I found his portrayal a lot more human in the previous book than here. The previous story at least had Zerozaki and Tomo-chan for him to sympathize with no matter how remotely. Heck, his unusual actions in the novel were thanks to whatever little sense of likeness he felt towards Tomo-chan, which is probably the closest he can get to feeling for another human being. Here, on the other hand, he felt more like a piece of cardboard, vaguely going where the flow takes him. As a result, he felt even more unnerving considering what we already know about his character.

But yeah. I'd say that Vol. 2 was the exception rather than the rule in describing his usual behavior. Though I'd agree that I missed all the mind games that made the previous volume so enjoyable.
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 18:57   Link #97
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Here, on the other hand, he felt more like a piece of cardboard, vaguely going where the flow takes him.
I guess my problem is that there are way too many other main characters like that, although in their case it's never presented as a character flaw.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 19:09   Link #98
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I guess my problem is that there are way too many other main characters like that, although in their case it's never presented as a character flaw.
Fair enough. Perhaps this is Nisio's attempt at deconstructing a popular character archetype?
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 19:53   Link #99
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Fair enough. Perhaps this is Nisio's attempt at deconstructing a popular character archetype?
Ikkun might predate a lot of characters like that. Zaregoto was first published in 2002.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 21:24   Link #100
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Aside from being caught up in Jun's task for him at the beginning, I don't really see how this third volume involved Ikkun being caught up in a flow.

In the beginning him and Hime were caught up/trapped in Shiogi's strategy, but throughout that section it was mostly Ikkun leading the way. Subsequently they were rescued by Jun, but that only lead to them discovering the murder and locking themselves up in the Dean's office.

From that point forward, it was Ikkun's will to throw himself out there and not live in dependence upon someone greater than him. That/those actions got to one of the legitimate core of Ii-kun's character. Despite knowing himself as broken (or perhaps rather, because he knows himself to be broken), Ii-kun refuses to allow himself to depend on any other person. Correspondingly, Ii-kun develops a contempt for any kind of person who tries to depend on him. The only exception to this is Kunagisa Tomo, who is both the victim and responsible for why Ii-kun is broken in the first place.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 30/5 :: Hanayamata 30/5 :: Locodol 80/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.