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Old 2008-08-08, 14:23   Link #61
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
It is really quite mind boggling to think that guys like Aokiji and Kizaru, who are near-invincible logia users, still can't manage to take down any of the emperors. The emperors must truly be freaks of nature I tell you . This makes me believe that there must be other ways of beating logia users besides exploiting their natural weaknesses, because it appears to me that guys like Whitebeard and Shanks don't have devil fruits and yet the world government that has admirals on their side can't do a thing about them.

That's why I believe that Haki is the key to beating just about any DF user, Logias included. If a Haki-charged punch is capable of damaging guys like Aokiji or Ace, then it would be no wonder why the government fears guys like Shanks and Whitebeard (yes, I believe Whitebeard's familiar with the technique, too). I'd doubt that Oda would be building up Haki so much if that weren't the case (d'you really think it's only used to knock out weak-willed fools?).


But even if Rayleigh teaches the technique to Luffy now, I don't see him mastering it until the New World, so I'm pretty sure that the future Pirate King would still have to rely on gimmicks to fight Logias.... for a while, at least.
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Old 2008-08-08, 15:19   Link #62
james0246
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It doesn't even have to be a "charged" punch. We already know that a Logia user can be suprised (i.e. cuaght before they can turn intangible), so, it stands to reason, that the secret of the Haki technique, at least when dealing with Logia users, would be to use a burst of Haki right before the point of impact, effectively distracting the Logia-user for a brief second, allowing the attack to actually hit the Logia-users body without passing through their bodies.

So, Luffy would fire a Gumu Gumu Pistol, and right before it would hit the Logia-user, he would send a burst of haki at his opponent, distracting them for the briefiest moment, so that Luffy's attack would connect with the Logia-users body.
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Old 2008-08-08, 17:30   Link #63
Tommy
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Omg! This chapter was slammed with action!

Kizaru just whooped everyone and the strawhat finishing combo was .

Also glad to see that these clones aren't pushovers, just one gave the whole crew a bit of trouble. I'm eager to see how Kidd and Law fared against the other one, I would guess that they had an easier time since they are both monsters as well and they have their respective crews with them too.

Last edited by Tommy; 2008-08-08 at 17:43.
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Old 2008-08-08, 18:20   Link #64
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
That's why I believe that Haki is the key to beating just about any DF user, Logias included. If a Haki-charged punch is capable of damaging guys like Aokiji or Ace, then it would be no wonder why the government fears guys like Shanks and Whitebeard (yes, I believe Whitebeard's familiar with the technique, too). I'd doubt that Oda would be building up Haki so much if that weren't the case (d'you really think it's only used to knock out weak-willed fools?).


But even if Rayleigh teaches the technique to Luffy now, I don't see him mastering it until the New World, so I'm pretty sure that the future Pirate King would still have to rely on gimmicks to fight Logias.... for a while, at least.
Haki? What's that? >< sorry lol.

Just read chapter. If Kizaru finds SH I think its over for them...UNLESS Rayleigh helps out lol.
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Old 2008-08-08, 20:40   Link #65
The Imadori
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
It is really quite mind boggling to think that guys like Aokiji and Kizaru, who are near-invincible logia users, still can't manage to take down any of the emperors. The emperors must truly be freaks of nature I tell you . This makes me believe that there must be other ways of beating logia users besides exploiting their natural weaknesses, because it appears to me that guys like Whitebeard and Shanks don't have devil fruits and yet the world government that has admirals on their side can't do a thing about them.
Well I don't belive in MarvelBs "Haki solves" Theory But yeah. The four emporors the Three admirals and of course the shichibukei (still have no clue how a disgrace to all Logia users like crocodile could get in there) are the strongest men of this era. The Supernovas are freaks but those guys are Monsters. Oh and there are the Guys like Reilight, Dragon and Sengok who could be even stronger but havn't showan a lot till now.

Nothing new in the actual scanlation I couldn't get out of the japaneese spoiler, Text isn't so important in this chapter anyway

I'll just hope until the next chapter that the supernovas will get up again and Oda didn't realy just use them as punchbags to show "OMG Kizaru is SO strong"
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Old 2008-08-08, 21:10   Link #66
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I liked the new "CP9 Report" since it seems that they will take out the Candy Pirates to help out the town they're in. ^^

The lack of Law, Kidd and Killer makes me think that maybe in this upcoming chapter we're either going to see them standing over a defeated Pacifista or still struggling to take him out, whichever comes first. Since it looks like Kizaru is on the move and all three crews are in trouble.

I can't stress how cool Kizaru has proven to be in these past chapters and that somewhat apathetic and calm look on his face just adds to his characters that much more. Let alone how he seems to talk with Sentoumaru and his powers which we got more of an idea of how he uses it.

I doubt Oda would go through the trouble of creating and crafting such nice characters and complex powers and abilities to simply dismiss and discard them, as to be used just as common characters to contrast the strength of one to the the rest. Even if those Supernova are defeated(which isn't known yet),I atleast think they'll be alright.
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Old 2008-08-08, 21:52   Link #67
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So... it looks like Kizaru can travel through reflections, since that's how he caught up with Apoo. I'm hoping that we see more interesting uses for his powers... Kizaru's ability is fun IMO, even if he is a Logia.


And since he's going to hunt down the 3 prime offenders of the auction house incident, I wonder if he'll actually run into Capone or Bonney along the way? I'd find it highly amusing if Bonney uses her aging powers on Kizaru in an attempt to weaken him....
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Old 2008-08-08, 22:55   Link #68
Tommy
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Originally Posted by Monkey D. Luffy View Post
The lack of Law, Kidd and Killer makes me think that maybe in this upcoming chapter we're either going to see them standing over a defeated Pacifista or still struggling to take him out, whichever comes first. Since it looks like Kizaru is on the move and all three crews are in trouble.

I'm guessing it's gonna be the first. With the strawhats putting a close on their Pacifista, theirs not much point beyond fanservice to show the other group fighting, especially since I think those two crews combined powers are > then the SH's at this time.

Everyone needs to prepare for Kizaru and Sentoumaru.
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Old 2008-08-09, 00:50   Link #69
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It seems Kizaru is invincible as long as there's light. What an unfair ability... I guess his natural nemesis would be BlackBeard.

It took the whole SH crew to barely beat one Pacifisa... geez, and there are many of them! The government has frightening power.
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Old 2008-08-09, 00:53   Link #70
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His natural enemy is a prism or some sort of refraction ability. So, Water or Fog might be suitable weaknesses. In fact Smoke could be a very good weakness, or at least neutral power, that can be used against Light.
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Old 2008-08-09, 06:53   Link #71
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It took the whole SH crew to barely beat one Pacifisa... geez, and there are many of them! The government has frightening power.
They barely beatet the Pacifista? Yes. Its true that it can took much damage. But it was still pretty much one sided fight.
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Old 2008-08-09, 06:59   Link #72
The Imadori
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They barely beatet the Pacifista? Yes. Its true that it can took much damage. But it was still pretty much one sided fight.
But they used their most powerfull moves. Nono the Pacifista ARE strong.

But i'm pretty sure the one against Law and Kid will be down by now too. He isstill made out of metal and as soon as Kidd finds out it is over.
It would be interesting if Law could also control light inside his "Romm" but we'd have to know more about this power of his for that.
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Old 2008-08-09, 08:46   Link #73
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Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
His natural enemy is a prism or some sort of refraction ability. So, Water or Fog might be suitable weaknesses. In fact Smoke could be a very good weakness, or at least neutral power, that can be used against Light.
Now it would be interesting if some so-long forgetten character suddenly joins in to counter Kizaru while everything about to end for supernovas...Renegade marine Captain Smoker appears to smoke Kizaru's light out It will happen sometime.Maybe the same way that Drake become a pirate because Smoker's at a point that can no longer accept World Goverments lies and actions.
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Old 2008-08-09, 19:52   Link #74
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Now it would be interesting if some so-long forgetten character suddenly joins in to counter Kizaru while everything about to end for supernovas...Renegade marine Captain Smoker appears to smoke Kizaru's light out It will happen sometime.Maybe the same way that Drake become a pirate because Smoker's at a point that can no longer accept World Goverments lies and actions.
But why would Smoker become a turncloak and fight Kizaru to rescue Luffy and crew?... Rather the reverse, he would happily lend a hand to Kizaru in order to put Luffy in a sea cage.


I don't see where all those theories about Smoker joining the Straw Hats or Smoker becoming a pirate comes from. Smoker to me resents pirates down to the bone and he set out to sea to chase Luffy down and capture him, other then defying orders to better capture Luffy I can't see Smoker becoming a turncloak.

Just as a couple before me in this thread, I find it very mind buggling, to quote Blackbeard D. Kuma, to think that Logia is so god damn overpowered, and so far neither Shanks (especially Shanks) or Whitebeard has shown any sign of being Logia's - nor Gol D. Roger for that matter. So how come Aokiji and Kizaru hasn't just gone into the New World and captured/killed the four emporers? What we know of Shanks is that he is strong enough to match a strike from Whitebeard (the man known as the strongerst man in the world), he has a high prowess with sword (enough to rival Mihawk in the past, who is known as the strongest swordsman before loosing his arm), and neither being skilled with the blade or strong matters against Logia. And we know that Shanks has Haki (that spirit power).

Now, I find the theory that Haki is can somehow provide a way to beat Logia very interessting and I think there may be some truth in it.

If the only way to beat Logia types is to use their natural weakness or sea(water, cuffs etc) they would be king of the worlds but they aint, instead they are sharing their throne with people who hasn't Logia powers. So it must definitly be a way to beat a Logia user using Haki or as another theory has it (that Mihawk can cut elements because he wills it, as Zoro decided not to cut a leaf and then cut Mr 1) you use your strong will. I find both interessting and likeable.

I'm quite sure that if there are ways to beat Logia user Rayleigh knows it so maybe he will stay with Straw Hats for a bit and tutor Luffy in Haki or what may be it.

On to topic I think that Kidd and Law will have defeated their Pacifista by next chapter as Straw Hats have and escaped to sea, so Kizaru will go after Luffy but I hope not and think not that we will see a battle between Straw Hats and Kizaru that will end with either loosing, we will see something interrupting and Kizaru has to retreat or something.
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Old 2008-08-09, 20:13   Link #75
Ermes Marana
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Yeah, I have also wondered exactly how Whitebeard would beat Aokiji. To call him the strongest in the world, you would think he should win. Other than Haki, I can't think of anything.

On the other hand, you also have to take into account Whitebeard's crew. Ace would have been a good match for Aokiji, that could go either way. Blackbeard is just the perfect counter for any Logia.
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Old 2008-08-09, 20:38   Link #76
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Yeah, true. But you don't become known as the strongest man in the world by having a strong crew, and in One Piece tema the captain/highest ranked is usually able to defeat all his subordinates.

But as I hope that Haki will provide a way to beat Logia users, I don't want Haki to be common among the higher ups, I want it to be almost exlusivly, more rare than Logia fruits. As of now, only Luffy, Shanks and Rayleigh has it and that fits me fine - I want it to stay that way! And I don't want Zoro and Sanji beginning to develop it as well in order to defeat Logia users. So I hope that Whitebeard, Mihawks etc (except Shanks) thatmost likely don't have a devil fruit power to use another way to defeat Logia.
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Old 2008-08-09, 20:48   Link #77
marvelB
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Honestly, I feel that Zoro already learned some form of Haki long before Luffy had (it would certainly be the best explanation of his Asura technique, plus there's that whole "breath" thing...). In fact, I don't think it's far-fetched for Mihawk to be a Haki master, either. If this power actually can beat Logia users, then it would fit Mihawk very well, what with that rumor about him being able to "cut the elements"....
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Old 2008-08-10, 00:34   Link #78
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They use different kinds of ki. Zoro is a more conventional thing and Asura is specifically Kiki (demon ki, many characters have commented on the nature of that also.)

Haki on the other hand shares absolutely no similarity as far as I know save for the fact that they both have ki. And I suppose Zoro might also pressure people (but bloodlust and 'ambition' are fairly different.)

And I'm hoping Haki isn't a system to beat logia users. I'd rather it be the case that you just have to be experienced and know how to deal with them to win (as Luffy has done.) As opposed to having some magical (not in a literal sense) answer to fighting them.
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Old 2008-08-10, 02:54   Link #79
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actually i am hoping logia will have some individual unique weakness and not one skill (i.e. haki) beat them all. it will be more fun this way, just like how luffy find out water can beat croc. if not there is always the conventional way on beating df user, drowning them in sea or using sea stone. we shldn't forget tt this is the biggest flaw of all df users logia included
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Old 2008-08-10, 03:39   Link #80
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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actually i am hoping logia will have some individual unique weakness and not one skill (i.e. haki) beat them all. it will be more fun this way, just like how luffy find out water can beat croc. if not there is always the conventional way on beating df user, drowning them in sea or using sea stone. we shldn't forget tt this is the biggest flaw of all df users logia included
All logia users have their own unique weaknesses. The real question here is what if the opponent that a logia user is fighting against doesn't happen to have the source of the logia users weakness on them at the moment? For example, let's say Shanks happens to run across Kizaru somewhere in the New World and Kizaru initiates an attack against him. Since it appears that Shanks has no devil fruit and that he fights with his sword only, he wouldn't be able to hurt Kizaru at all by any conventional means. Now, if this was true then Shanks would've already probably been captured by a marine admiral, such as Aokiji or Kizaru, but as we can see he is still roaming around in the New World doing as he pleases. This must mean that there are other ways to defeat a logia user besides exploiting their natural weaknesses. Having said this, with both the world government and marines being aware of this knowledge and knowing full well how strong the emperors are, they would definitely not want to risk losing an admiral against an emperor since that outcome would bring about a severe loss to the marines. From my understanding, users here, such as marvelB, are only saying that haki may end up being one of the plausible ways to defeat a logia user without resorting to using their direct weakness. Natural weaknesses to logia users may not always be available when a fight against them ensues, so there must be other ways to harm them, in which the emperors would definitely be capable of doing.
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