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Old 2008-08-08, 14:46   Link #1
killer3000ad
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Newsflash: Fighting in South Ossetia/Georgia

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/eu...tia/index.html

Great timing, sort of steals the thunder and the world's attention from Beijing 2008.

See Russian Missile Massacre vid->http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7546639.stm
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Old 2008-08-08, 15:12   Link #2
gabbytay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/eu...tia/index.html

Great timing, sort of steals the thunder and the world's attention from Beijing 2008.

See Russian Missile Massacre vid->http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7546639.stm
I hope the U.S doesn't join the fight to keep the peace
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Old 2008-08-08, 15:43   Link #3
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yeah, my son just told me that the Russians had decided to throw some weight behind a separatist pro-russian movement there. US-centered viewpoint:
1) just a matter of time before Putin was going to exercise some muscle in the area to "keep the borders safe".
2) not a lot anyone can do or say right now --- oddly enough, everyone who could (Britain, etc) is totally tapped out (d'oh...... :P )
3) US forces are not only tapped out and over-stretched but are suffering un-replaced equipment issues, shortages, etc. thanks to the idiots in charge.
4) The Georgian government is not necessarily our "buddies" either.

Otherwise, I'm not up-to-speed on Georgian internal politics lately to say much else.
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Old 2008-08-08, 21:54   Link #4
mg1942
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Georgians attacked first.

Georgia hoped to fully seize South Ossetia (a Georgian province) before Russia can react. That objective was not achieved.

If Georgia achieved seizing South Ossetia 100%, and if Russia reacted by sending their forces, Georgia will have the opportunity to say that their sovereignty was violated, and I'm sure Russia will be condemned by the world media.

Last edited by mg1942; 2008-08-08 at 22:14.
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Old 2008-08-09, 08:56   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
yeah, my son just told me that the Russians had decided to throw some weight behind a separatist pro-russian movement there. US-centered viewpoint:
1) just a matter of time before Putin was going to exercise some muscle in the area to "keep the borders safe".
2) not a lot anyone can do or say right now --- oddly enough, everyone who could (Britain, etc) is totally tapped out (d'oh...... :P )
3) US forces are not only tapped out and over-stretched but are suffering un-replaced equipment issues, shortages, etc. thanks to the idiots in charge.
4) The Georgian government is not necessarily our "buddies" either.

Otherwise, I'm not up-to-speed on Georgian internal politics lately to say much else.
Be very careful of what you see the US media feeds you.
US is allied with Georgia, and even has troops from Georgia working with US in Iraq. Thus, you will see a very one-sided criticism of Russia in this matter.

But it's not clear-cut like that.

Georgia has had ethnic conflict problems with its southern region of South Ossetia. Majority of people living in South Ossetia are ethnic Russians, with Russian cultures and even citizenships. The diffrence has been focus of much conflict, and there are allegations of ethnic cleansing of Ossetians by the Georgia authorities. Fed up with the racist authorities, Ossetians declared independence to split from Georgia. Not wanting to give up its lands, Georgia responded with military aggression, and many, many Ossetians died.

Since Ossetians are Russians, Russia stepped in as their "big brother" into the conflict. Yes, Russia is a superpower, and this war can look like bullying... but the nation DOES have its reponsibility to protect its citizens. I'm sure there's quite a bit of "taking advantage" of the situation by the Russians, but they don't really have a choice in the matter anyways.

US media (as well as the Bush admin) seems to portray a very clear picture of Georgia being victimized. But they are hardly the victim in the case, instead, they are as much of an aggressor as Russia, and I hate to say this... but the Georgia authorities really brought this upon themselves. I feel saddended that Georgian citizens, including the Ossetians, have to pay for the price though.

Think of this as Russia's version of Vietnam and Korean war... except imagine if the South side of those countries were inhabited by Americans.
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Old 2008-08-09, 09:17   Link #6
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
US is allied with Georgia, and even has troops from Georgia working with US in Iraq. Thus, you will see a very one-sided criticism of Russia in this matter.
Indeed. From what I've read, Georgia will be withdrawing their 2000 soldiers from Iraq to deal with the unrest at home now.

I'll be following this situation very closely, I was unfortunately ignorant of the entire issue before it escalated.
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Old 2008-08-09, 09:30   Link #7
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http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/eu...tia/index.html

And Georgia ups the ante a level. To be clear, South Ossetia is still officially recognised as part of Georgia, so from the Georgian perspective they are enforcing their territorial rights in trying to reign in the separatists who are backed by the Russians. Also, while it's realistic to say we shouldn't trust the Western media entirely on it's reporting of the conflict, we sure as hell can't trust at all the neutrality of Russian TV.

And this latest act of Georgia declaring a state of war (a notch down from all out declaration of war) is probably due to Russia expanding the conflict further by bombing locations insider Georgia itself rather than just South Ossetia. -> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7550804.stm
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Old 2008-08-09, 10:24   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/eu...tia/index.html

And Georgia ups the ante a level. To be clear, South Ossetia is still officially recognised as part of Georgia, so from the Georgian perspective they are enforcing their territorial rights in trying to reign in the separatists who are backed by the Russians. Also, while it's realistic to say we shouldn't trust the Western media entirely on it's reporting of the conflict, we sure as hell can't trust at all the neutrality of Russian TV.

And this latest act of Georgia declaring a state of war (a notch down from all out declaration of war) is probably due to Russia expanding the conflict further by bombing locations insider Georgia itself rather than just South Ossetia. -> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7550804.stm
You're absolutely right, of course.
From Georgia's standpoint, they are simply defending their own territory, and from South Ossetian standpoint, they are being persecuted for trying to split and go independent. Russia's still an agressor in the conflict, especially if their retaliation to Georgia is excessive, and knowing how aggressive their military operations are, it most likely will be.

I just wanted to point out the Russia/Ossetia's side of the story, since this is in no ways an one-sided conflict, the way some media portrays it out to be.
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Old 2008-08-09, 12:56   Link #9
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Looking at both sides, I still think Russia has gone a bit too far. They are now bombing civilian targets, and are attacking all of Georgia, not just South Ossetia.

Whether or not the people in South Ossetia are ethnic Russians, that province is still part of Georgia atm. So, Russia invading it is an encroachment on Georgian sovereignty.

Georgia committing heinous acts should have been taken to the UN. I'm sure they would have done something, similar to what NATO did in Kosovo.

There were other ways to go about this than, seemingly, all out war.
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Old 2008-08-09, 14:49   Link #10
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the georgian president is a fool.

if you country isn't strong enough to change the status quo (ie. serbia) then accept it.

you only try to change the status quo if you country is strong enough to back it up (ie China).

the countries most likely to intervene in Georgia's favor (US, UK) has too much on its plate.

the other countries like Germany and France is too dependent on Russia natural gas and oil.
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Old 2008-08-09, 15:34   Link #11
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We need to send in troops to stop the Russian invasion as soon as possible.
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Old 2008-08-09, 15:40   Link #12
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Hell yeah, 'cause Vietnam went awesome!

America, fuck yeah!
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Old 2008-08-09, 15:42   Link #13
Zoned87
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Hell yeah, 'cause Vietnam went awesome!

America, fuck yeah!
That war was unpopular because no one cared, Georgia however is a U.S. allie

It's little different than attacking a state
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Old 2008-08-09, 16:05   Link #14
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Originally Posted by Zoned87 View Post
That war was unpopular because no one cared, Georgia however is a U.S. allie

It's little different than attacking a state
if you ask your avg american on the st about georgia 99% of them don't even know there is country name georgia much less the US is allied to it. And 99% of those who know Georgia won't be able to point it out on a map.
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Old 2008-08-09, 16:37   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoned87 View Post
That war was unpopular because no one cared, Georgia however is a U.S. allie
I wouldn't quite say that Georgia is a US ally. They are part of the UN as well as a few other groups that America frequents, but they have no real connection with the United States. Added to that, Russia is a closer "ally" with America, at least closer than Georgia. Finally, this is a European plroblem. There are plenty of nations in Europe that can aid Georgia if Georgia seeks help. Hell, America shouldn't even get involved at all until other European nations have refused aid. In the end, there is no reason for America to get involved, in fact there are many reasons for us to simply leave Georgia and Russia alone.
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Old 2008-08-09, 16:46   Link #16
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
if you ask your avg american on the st about georgia 99% of them don't even know there is country name georgia much less the US is allied to it. And 99% of those who know Georgia won't be able to point it out on a map.
This isn't exactly relevent, and may or may not be true.

What is relevant, a US war with Russia has a risk of turning nuclear. I live near what is certainly a high priority target for a nuclear strike on the US. Therefore I say let the Russians do what they want for now. Maybe finance Georgia through back channels and help them get their troops in Iraq home to defend their country. However, intervine directly or give open support to them? Hell no.
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Old 2008-08-09, 17:52   Link #17
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You should not fear or take crap from Russia, they nor none of their weaponry could ever reach our sores.

Any long range missiles would be shot down, Russia is an inferior bug who should be put in their place
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Old 2008-08-09, 18:07   Link #18
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Quote:
Russia is an inferior bug who should be put in their place
*facepalm*

How old are you again?
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Old 2008-08-09, 18:19   Link #19
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
*facepalm*

How old are you again?
take his stated age and divide it by 2.
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Old 2008-08-09, 18:19   Link #20
james0246
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Originally Posted by Zoned87 View Post
You should not fear or take crap from Russia, they nor none of their weaponry could ever reach our sores.

Any long range missiles would be shot down, Russia is an inferior bug who should be put in their place
Your kidding, right?

Even if we were not worried about Russia, it is still not our place to send military aid to Georgia. I'm sorry, but besides the fact that the country has a similar name to one of America's states, there is absolutely no reason for America to be interested in Georgia. This is Europe and its many nations fight (if they choose to fight), and has nothing to do with America.
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