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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 271 67.25%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 73 18.11%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 27 6.70%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 2.98%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 0.99%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 0.99%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 0.50%
3 out of 10 : Bad 4 0.99%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 6 1.49%
Voters: 403. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-08-15, 01:15   Link #1421
JerryShaw
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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
But I'm pretty sure you'll vote for and follow someone with a mind of one sometime in your life.
I'm not saying all leaders are right. I'm saying it's my right to choose my representative. If a 10 year old kid makes your decision for you without your consent, would you be happy? If you are, then you are weird.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:16   Link #1422
Orga777
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Originally Posted by JerryShaw View Post
Better than a 10 year old kid making that decision. I didn't vote for the 10 year old.
You know... I give up you in any case. Since I don't think you can grasp anything at all really. Since, you know, you haven't been listening.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:17   Link #1423
Micante
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Better than a 10 year old kid making that decision. I didn't vote for the 10 year old.
Look, it's not like everyone went up to Suzaku and said, "Your dad has died, what do we do now, Lord Kururugi?"

He stopped Genbu, but the choice was still in the hands of the Japanese.

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Originally Posted by JerryShaw View Post
I'm not saying all leaders are right. I'm saying it's my right to choose my representative. If a 10 year old kid makes your decision for you without your consent, would you be happy? If you are, then you are weird.
Alright, amuse me, what decision did Suzaku make for the others? They could have continued to fight, it's not like Genbu was supposed to go in the front lines with an awesome Knightmare that would have stomped the Britannians.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:18   Link #1424
Sports72Xtrm
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Originally Posted by Eiontalos View Post
At the time FDR died the war was pretty much decided. Now if the Germans were on the U.S.'s mainland at the time of FDR's death and he was preaching resistance to the very last man then FDR's death might have shook up our ranks a bit.
Well that's all on us. Democracy only works if we take responsibility for our own action or inaction on how our nation is being lead. If we're just gonna blame all our troubles on whoever is in charge at the moment than we might as well have monarchy. Then at least it would be justified.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:18   Link #1425
JerryShaw
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You know... I give up you in any case. Since I don't think you can grasp anything at all really. Since, you know, you haven't been listening.
I'm not a Bush follower. I voted for Al Gore before he got fat. Anyway I'm just saying, I don't want someone to take away my right to choose my own representative. Isn't that what democracy is about? Having freedom to choose and elect your own leaders? Why is saying I don't want a 10 year old kid to make decisions for me a bad thing?
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:19   Link #1426
Revolutionist
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He was ten god damn years old. He doesn't know all the details about political stuff at such a young age. All he knows is "Fighting is bad! Too many people will die!"

And where were the rest of the leaders at? Huh? Oh yeah... no where. They didn't take up the fight WHY? Because of incompetance of course.
So because he was 10 at the time he should not be blamed for the murder of his own father, and the subsequent defeat and enslavement of the Japanese people?
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:19   Link #1427
Witacume
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Originally Posted by UnnamedPhenemenom View Post
Look, it's not like everyone went up to Suzaku and said, "Your dad has died, what do we do now, Lord Kururugi?"

He stopped Genbu, but the choice was still in the hands of the Japanese.
MAn can we stop this Suzaku fan lovin?
Shit happen and he is at fault he realizes he is at fault.
He wants to make atonement.
Suzaku is complicated but lets stop trying to justify murder please
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:20   Link #1428
JerryShaw
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So because he was 10 at the time he should not be blamed for the murder of his own father, and the subsequent defeat and enslavement of the Japanese people?
Apparently, when you are 10, treason isn't treason.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:20   Link #1429
Micante
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MAn can we stop this Suzaku fan lovin?
Shit happen and he is at fault he realizes he is at fault.
He wants to make atonement.
Suzaku is complicated but lets stop trying to justify murder please
I never said that Suzaku wasn't responsible for the murder part. I'm just saying he didn't become the leader of Japan and forced everyone to give up.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:20   Link #1430
morbosfist
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You know, that even helps my point MORE then. If he is under no ones orders except the Emperor's (who he also didn't follow with the Nunnally thing) then how is he a "military dog?"
Like I said, I don't disagree with your point.

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I will give you that, but he still tried. It was probably the Prideful Suzaku coming out against the Prideful Lelouch... You know, that whole Unstoppable force and immovable object thing again.
Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Right. ANd Euphemia's death was harder on Suzaku than Lelouch and Suzaku still didn't shoot him in the head when he had the chance to.
Only because he had time to think when Lelouch shut him down the first time. There wasn't anyone to hold Lelouch back after Shirley's death, and more importantly he could not exact revenge directly on the guy who admitted to it.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Yep during that party at teh CF during that sham wedding thing.
It looks to me like she was just struggling to get free, but I suppose it can be taken like that.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
And we know he isn't doing anything... how? We have seen practically NOTHING of Area 11 and Suzaku. We know he is helping Nunnally as much as he can and she is trying to do stuff. So saying Suzaku is just falling into the system I don;t think makes sense.
His own admission. His goal is to become Knight of One, at which point he will have the power. All he's doing now is participating in meetings (military ones at that) while Nunnally's the one asserting herself to get her way.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
It was either exile or kill them. I think the former was better myself. Even though nobody would thank him for that anyway. He still doesn't break under Peer Pressue though. Which still counts as something.
Indeed it does. I'll agree with you on that. Even though he nearly did, he went back to his ideals at the last moment.

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
He was doubting himself on what to do from the beginning. And it wasn't the Britannian thinking, it was his own anger towards Zero that was the cause. But he (again) fought through that anger and chose the right path.
Part of that is Britannian thinking. He'd have never considered it in the first season. All the Britannians around him were quite sure of what they would have done, and Suzaku almost went with it. He fought the anger off, but it and the ridiculous drugging attempt shows he's starting to come closer and closer to dropping his ideals to get the job done. This latest nuke incident is either going to push him over that line or snap him back, and from his laughter I think it might be the former, for however short a time.

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He killed his father and he did get away scott free. Except from himself. He was mentally broken after that incident. Still a lot for someone barely eighteen who was treated like shit for nearly his entire life, got emotionally wrecked, had no friends, and was completely alone.
He obviously wasn't all that broken by it if he was able to join the army and become a decent soldier. He just wanted punishment. as for the rest, he did get friends in the Student Council around the same time as Euphy. He wasn't completely alone. I'll give that it was a lot for him to deal with and he did handle it better than Lelouch would have in the same situation.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:21   Link #1431
Orga777
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Originally Posted by JerryShaw View Post
I'm not a Bush follower. I voted for Al Gore before he got fat. Anyway I'm just saying, I don't want someone to take away my right to choose my own representative. Isn't that what democracy is about? Having freedom to choose and elect your own leaders? Why is saying I don't want a 10 year old kid to make decisions for me a bad thing?
Except the kid didn't realize what he was doing and the other leaders of said government who were in COMMAND did NOTHING. THEY were the ones that surrendered to Britannia. Not Suzaku.

The fact you are blaming it all on a ten year old is sad on your part really.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:21   Link #1432
Sports72Xtrm
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So because he was 10 at the time he should not be blamed for the murder of his own father, and the subsequent defeat and enslavement of the Japanese people?
....yes.....but probably not the way you think
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:23   Link #1433
JerryShaw
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Except the kid didn't realize what he was doing and the other leaders of said government who were in COMMAND did NOTHING. THEY were the ones that surrendered to Britannia. Not Suzaku.

The fact you are blaming it all on a ten year old is sad on your part really.
I didn't say it was ALL Suzaku's fault. I'm just saying I don't want a 10 year old kid to make a decision for a whole nation! That's all I'm saying. Why are you guys so angry?! Is it so wrong to say I don't want a kid to make my decision for me?

Now that I think about it, the fact that you get so upset over saying I don't want 10 year old to make my decisions for me says alot about you too.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:23   Link #1434
Witacume
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Except the kid didn't realize what he was doing and the other leaders of said government who were in COMMAND did NOTHING. THEY were the ones that surrendered to Britannia. Not Suzaku.

The fact you are blaming it all on a ten year old is sad on your part really.
and you protecting and being very Arrogant/Condescending is not helping your cause my friend.
Suzaku change the face of the world?
Hell yes he did.
Did Lelouch change the face of The world?
Hell yes he did!
In the end this is an issue of What ifs.
We don't know what would have happen for all we know the chinese might have gotten involve. IDK
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:24   Link #1435
Micante
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I didn't say it was ALL Suzaku's fault. I'm just saying I don't want a 10 year old kid to make a decision for a whole nation! That's all I'm saying. Why are you guys so angry?! Is it so wrong to say I don't want a kid to make my decision for me?
What decision did Suzaku make!? He did not become leader of Japan after Genbu's death. That's the point we're trying to make.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:31   Link #1436
Orga777
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Like I said, I don't disagree with your point.

Agreed.
Well that was an easy first two points.

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Only because he had time to think when Lelouch shut him down the first time. There wasn't anyone to hold Lelouch back after Shirley's death, and more importantly he could not exact revenge directly on the guy who admitted to it.
What a lame excuse. And no one was there to stop Suzaku to use Refrain on Kallen but himself either, and yet he did stop himself. Is Lelouch's mind set so set to "child mentality" that he needs someone to scold him when he is doing something wrong and to knock him out of his temper tantrum? Seriously, for all of Lelouch's amazing tactical ability and amazing leadership, he still has the emotional set of a five year old.

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It looks to me like she was just struggling to get free, but I suppose it can be taken like that.
She was going to stab him before Suzaku stopped her.

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His own admission. His goal is to become Knight of One, at which point he will have the power. All he's doing now is participating in meetings (military ones at that) while Nunnally's the one asserting herself to get her way.
What? Suzaku was Nunnally's personal adviser. Saying he didn't raise ideas is REALLY stretching it IMO.

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Indeed it does. I'll agree with you on that. Even though he nearly did, he went back to his ideals at the last moment.
As they say, almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
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Part of that is Britannian thinking. He'd have never considered it in the first season. All the Britannians around him were quite sure of what they would have done, and Suzaku almost went with it. He fought the anger off, but it and the ridiculous drugging attempt shows he's starting to come closer and closer to dropping his ideals to get the job done. This latest nuke incident is either going to push him over that line or snap him back, and from his laughter I think it might be the former, for however short a time.
I don't know about that. The Refrain thing was because I think he was already nearing the breaking point when it involves Lelouch being a dick. And yet he still didn't go through with it. That is fortitude. I know I would have done it by that point (heck, I would have shot him instead of taking him alive...<.<')

I also think the nuke incident will keep him from doing anything... I think Gino can possibly knock that out of him. I know this much, he will beat himself up over that incident and he won't be blaming anyone else either.

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He obviously wasn't all that broken by it if he was able to join the army and become a decent soldier. He just wanted punishment. as for the rest, he did get friends in the Student Council around the same time as Euphy. He wasn't completely alone. I'll give that it was a lot for him to deal with and he did handle it better than Lelouch would have in the same situation.
He became a soldier for redemption reasons. He felt it was the least he could do after what he sees as an unforgivable sin. And he got friends in the Student Council and he ran into Euphie, but what about the years before that? Who did he have? Lelouch was surrounded by friends and had a loving sister which he took for granted. Suzaku had NOTHING. But we kinda agree on this point.

Actually, we are agreeing a lot more lately.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:34   Link #1437
Sports72Xtrm
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Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
and you protecting and being very Arrogant/Condescending is not helping your cause my friend.
Suzaku change the face of the world?
Hell yes he did.
Did Lelouch change the face of The world?
Hell yes he did!
In the end this is an issue of What ifs.
We don't know what would have happen for all we know the chinese might have gotten involve. IDK
Sorry Witacume, but he has a point. Nothing would have changed, Britannia would have won either way and more people would have died and other leaders gave up out their own free will. It's not an issue of what ifs, it's just common sense. Genbu's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that Suzaku's existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. They have a bigger responsibility than you can possibly even fathom that even surpasses to what even the people are entitled to. There'd be no rebellion if it wasn't for what Suzaku did. There'd be no one left alive.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:36   Link #1438
Eiontalos
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Look, it's not like everyone went up to Suzaku and said, "Your dad has died, what do we do now, Lord Kururugi?"

He stopped Genbu, but the choice was still in the hands of the Japanese.



Alright, amuse me, what decision did Suzaku make for the others? They could have continued to fight, it's not like Genbu was supposed to go in the front lines with an awesome Knightmare that would have stomped the Britannians.
How many times in this show have they showed that losing your leader in the middle of a battle/war screws up everything. I don't necessarily agree with that myself, but it seems that is a point they are trying to make.

Zero leaves first battle of tokyo and the OotBK crumble.
Cornelia hides away in her room after Euphy's death and the Generals are at a loss of what to do.
Cornelia tells Suzaku not news of her injuries get out because it will break the morale of her troops. Also had Zero captured Cornelia, Brittiania would have lost that battle.
Zero going missing on the Island of god for a day and the black knights nearly split apart.
The Emperor going missing after his confrontation with Lelouch has the whole of Brittiania in indecision.

So in the reality of this Anime the leader is the key pretty much.

So Genbu dieing in the middle of the brittianian invasion put enough confusion and doubt in the Japanese army that pursuing the war/resistance was pointless.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:36   Link #1439
Witacume
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Sorry Witacume, but he has a point. Nothing would have changed, Britannia would have won either way and more people would have died and other leaders gave up out their own free will. It's not an issue of what ifs, it's just common sense. Genbu's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that Suzaku's existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. There'd be no rebellion if it wasn't for what Suzaku did. There'd be no one left alive.
no this is opinion How the hell can we know?
we really don't know. Lelouch actually alludes to this. in r1
Also in the sound episodes we realize how much plans the japanese actually had.
Thus opinion.
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Old 2008-08-15, 01:40   Link #1440
Micante
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Originally Posted by Eiontalos View Post
How many times in this show have they showed that losing your leader in the middle of a battle/war screws up everything. I don't necessarily agree with that myself, but it seems that is a point they are trying to make.

Zero leaves first battle of tokyo and the OotBK crumble.
Cornelia hides away in her room after Euphy's death and the Generals are at a loss of what to do.
Cornelia tells Suzaku not news of her injuries get out because it will break the morale of her troops. Also had Zero captured Cornelia, Brittiania would have lost that battle.
Zero going missing on the Island of god for a day and the black knights nearly split apart.
The Emperor going missing after his confrontation with Lelouch has the whole of Brittiania in indecision.

So in the reality of this Anime the leader is the key pretty much.

So Genbu dieing in the middle of the brittianian invasion put enough confusion and doubt in the Japanese army that pursuing the war/resistance was pointless.
So... Suzaku's at fault because the Japanese are incompetent?
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