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Old 2008-08-10, 22:22   Link #21
The_Three_Kings
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i dont think no matter how powerful your haki is it will never be able to disable a high-ranking fighter. Take Shanks when he entered Whitebeard's ship. It may not have fully been the extent of his abilities but only the weakest members of Whitebeard's crew was affected, and Shanks being a Yonkou..
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Old 2008-08-10, 22:29   Link #22
Rawrz
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Originally Posted by The_Three_Kings View Post
i dont think no matter how powerful your haki is it will never be able to disable a high-ranking fighter. Take Shanks when he entered Whitebeard's ship. It may not have fully been the extent of his abilities but only the weakest members of Whitebeard's crew was affected, and Shanks being a Yonkou..
It'd be pretty had for someone weak to join Whitebear crew.They must be all pretty decent pirates after all.Besides only top 6-7 including high commanders/fighters stayed awake from unstable haki blast which we should give credit a little.It would be pretty weird if Shanks went to ship and destoyed entire crew by putting a step only to leave whitebeard alone

And the last thing is, that many people believing that what created the hole in heaven (tearing apart coud stuff) was not just the effect of Whitebeard+Shanks weapon clash but pure Shanks haki going up.Its pretty cool ability to have once you mastered it

and worst of all : Shanks didnt wanted to mean it..I mean he defeated all those whitebeard pirates by accident.Unlike Rayleigh's targeting/mass haki energy bursts, he may been using it as an aura...or its just too powerful for him to stabilize it.
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Old 2008-08-10, 22:38   Link #23
The_Three_Kings
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hmm????

Umm..no the tear in the sky was caused by the clash of the two yonkou as stated by Whitebeard's first division commander.

Second, Shanks stated himself that he turned on his aura, because stepping into a enemy ship was dangerous.
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Old 2008-08-10, 22:42   Link #24
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Haki itself seems that it will be one of the main power-ups that atleast Luffy will recieve entering the New World to let him compete with the new and powerful adversaries that they're bound to confront.

At the same time it looks much more complex than just a simple power-up that let's someone create some sort of force without any actual physical involvement. It might be something that is already there without prior knowledge or is somehow awakened a certain way or for a certain purpose. Afterall we did see an agitated Shanks knowingly let his Haki out on Whitebeard's crew because it was an enemy ship.

Another thing that comes to mind is that Haki is somehow connected to The Will Of D. I really have no basis for this except that the people we've seen it used so far have had a strong connection with a "D." Luffy being one himself.

Whatever it is, I doubt that it's more the deciding factor in a fight than it is something that might have more story relation and tie-ins to do with the plot of One Piece.
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Old 2008-08-11, 14:54   Link #25
marvelB
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I'm hoping that if (when) it turns out that Haki is used for battle, it would sorta work like Hamon from early Jojo's Bizarre Adventure... that is, when someone like Rayleigh or Shanks attacks a Logia opponent, they would send a "ripple" of Haki into the user's body, and the colliding energy would effectively cancel out a Logia's "invincibility", damaging them.


Hmm... maybe if Rayleigh fights Kizaru we may see more of Haki in action....
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Old 2008-08-11, 15:07   Link #26
james0246
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I'm hoping that if (when) it turns out that Haki is used for battle, it would sorta work like Hamon from early Jojo's Bizarre Adventure... that is, when someone like Rayleigh or Shanks attacks a Logia opponent, they would send a "ripple" of Haki into the user's body, and the colliding energy would effectively cancel out a Logia's "invincibility", damaging them. ....
This is exactly what I thought (same source as well ). Only, I hope that the "burst" itself will not be harmful, rather it will momentarily turn the Logia user solid, letting an incoming attack hit the opponent (specifically, Luffy will throw a Gumu Gumu Pistol at a Logia-user, while at the same time releasing a burst of haki; the haki would reach the logia-user first, resulting in the logia user, for a brief second, to lose their intangibility (due to their loss of focus), allowing Luffy's attack to hit them in the brief time that they are solid).
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Old 2008-08-11, 15:34   Link #27
Rainbowman
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I was just pointing out that perhaps Arlong did not leave of their own accord but I see your point. As long as the Shichibukai help maintain peace, the World Government could care less about what they do. I also doubt though that Nami would fight Jimbei. Maybe with other crew members but not by herself.
Well I for one can certainly see your point about Nami fighting Jimbei alone. Perhaps Luffy can assist her in a 2 on 1 battle. I bet that would make their relationship closer.
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Old 2008-08-11, 16:44   Link #28
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Well I for one can certainly see your point about Nami fighting Jimbei alone.
Please explain why, I'm very confused why Nami would want to fight Jimbei (one of the seven Warlords) alone. As I said before, it would contradict her personality and previous action in the past. By your reasoning she hated Arlong so much that she wants his blood and everyone responsable for it by herself, why didn't she want to kill Arlong herself? Not to mention she was the one who told Sanji/Zoro to save Hatchan.

Regarding Jimbei and Arlong. I got the impression that Arlong didn't really like the thought of being a Marine dog - he wanted to be a pirate against the human world, a rebel for his race, not a human liking servant. So thats the reason why he left Jimbei when Jimbei became a Shichibukai.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I hope that the "burst" itself will not be harmful, rather it will momentarily turn the Logia user solid, letting an incoming attack hit the opponent (specifically, Luffy will throw a Gumu Gumu Pistol at a Logia-user, while at the same time releasing a burst of haki; the haki would reach the logia-user first, resulting in the logia user, for a brief second, to lose their intangibility (due to their loss of focus), allowing Luffy's attack to hit them in the brief time that they are solid).
This is just as I picture it as well . Some people have voiced the opinion that Haki seem useless against higher-ups because Rayleigh and Shanks only knocked out the "weak" with it, but comon it has to have some other area of use except knocking someone out cold without looking at them.
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Old 2008-08-11, 20:00   Link #29
Wisshard
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In traditional Chinese culture there is a belief in something called Chi (or Qi), usually translated to energy flow, noteable the literal translation is "breath". I'm no expert but from what I can recall Chi is life force inside every living being, and if you train yourself to use it you can accomplish feat you couldn't do without it. Such as spear trust to the throat and survive, even breaking the spear, standing on one finger, lifting up your whole body etc. So roughly Chi is able to enhance you if you so use it.

Roronoa Zoro is known for his religious referrence, Asura for example which is a power-seeking deities, sometimes referred to as demons in Hinduism. Kaku noted that Zoro used his spirit to enhance himself and that Asura was a manifesting of his spirit. When Zoro fought Mr. 1 and he reached the brink of death, he said he was able to "hear the breath of all things", making him able to not being able to cut a leaf while he could cut steel if he choosed to.

My theory is that Roronoa Zoro isn't using Haki, but rather his inner life force (his spirit); his Chi, when he is manifesting Asura.

My impression of Haki is that you use a spirit rush that manifesting outside, on others, not on yourself. Of course we have not seen much of it yet so I may be totally of the mark. marvelB's theory that you can use a Haki rush to disrupt a Logia user into being solid sounds very probably to me, and I hope that it's a use we will see (knowing Oda, either way I atleast wont be disepointed even if it doesn't turn out that way ).
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Old 2008-08-11, 22:31   Link #30
cheese4u
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Originally Posted by Wisshard View Post
In traditional Chinese culture there is a belief in something called Chi (or Qi), usually translated to energy flow, noteable the literal translation is "breath". I'm no expert but from what I can recall Chi is life force inside every living being, and if you train yourself to use it you can accomplish feat you couldn't do without it. Such as spear trust to the throat and survive, even breaking the spear, standing on one finger, lifting up your whole body etc. So roughly Chi is able to enhance you if you so use it.

Roronoa Zoro is known for his religious referrence, Asura for example which is a power-seeking deities, sometimes referred to as demons in Hinduism. Kaku noted that Zoro used his spirit to enhance himself and that Asura was a manifesting of his spirit. When Zoro fought Mr. 1 and he reached the brink of death, he said he was able to "hear the breath of all things", making him able to not being able to cut a leaf while he could cut steel if he choosed to.

My theory is that Roronoa Zoro isn't using Haki, but rather his inner life force (his spirit); his Chi, when he is manifesting Asura.

My impression of Haki is that you use a spirit rush that manifesting outside, on others, not on yourself. Of course we have not seen much of it yet so I may be totally of the mark. marvelB's theory that you can use a Haki rush to disrupt a Logia user into being solid sounds very probably to me, and I hope that it's a use we will see (knowing Oda, either way I atleast wont be disepointed even if it doesn't turn out that way ).
I see haki in a different way. I think Zoro's energy abilities and Haki are the same thing, except Zoro may be using a more concentrated version specifically obtained through his training as a swordsman. Afterall Zoro had some knowledge of this "breath" thing even before he obtained it. The one that Luffy, Shanks, and Rayleigh uses is a wilder version that is basically obtained unintentionally such as in Luffy's case. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Shank's has never had any formal sword training, and obtained haki in a way similar to Luffy's.

My theory on how haki can beat a logia user is not necessarily that it causes a disruption but rather it allows you to cut pass the power of the fruit and touch the opponent directly. Kinda like how Zoro's "breath" allows him to specifically cut steel, maybe Haki can allow you to specifically touch your opponent and go pass the abilities of the fruit.
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Old 2008-08-11, 22:37   Link #31
Rainbowman
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Please explain why, I'm very confused why Nami would want to fight Jimbei (one of the seven Warlords) alone. As I said before, it would contradict her personality and previous action in the past. By your reasoning she hated Arlong so much that she wants his blood and everyone responsable for it by herself, why didn't she want to kill Arlong herself? Not to mention she was the one who told Sanji/Zoro to save Hatchan.

Regarding Jimbei and Arlong. I got the impression that Arlong didn't really like the thought of being a Marine dog - he wanted to be a pirate against the human world, a rebel for his race, not a human liking servant. So thats the reason why he left Jimbei when Jimbei became a Shichibukai.



This is just as I picture it as well . Some people have voiced the opinion that Haki seem useless against higher-ups because Rayleigh and Shanks only knocked out the "weak" with it, but comon it has to have some other area of use except knocking someone out cold without looking at them.
That qoute of mine that you just saw, I was trying to state that Three Kings was right about Nami not being able to defeat Jimbei on her own. And I already stated that Luffy would assist her in a 2 on 1 fight hopefully making their relationship closer. I'd say this should clear things up for you Mr. Wisshard.
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Old 2008-08-11, 22:45   Link #32
The_Three_Kings
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I see haki in a different way. I think Zoro's energy abilities and Haki are the same thing, except Zoro may be using a more concentrated version specifically obtained through his training as a swordsman. Afterall Zoro had some knowledge of this "breath" thing even before he obtained it. The one that Luffy, Shanks, and Rayleigh uses is a wilder version that is basically obtained unintentionally such as in Luffy's case. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Shank's has never had any formal sword training, and obtained haki in a way similar to Luffy's.

My theory on how haki can beat a logia user is not necessarily that it causes a disruption but rather it allows you to cut pass the power of the fruit and touch the opponent directly. Kinda like how Zoro's "breath" allows him to specifically cut steel, maybe Haki can allow you to specifically touch your opponent and go pass the abilities of the fruit.
I think of Haki as something you acquire when you reach a certain power level with the right events to trigger it. I don't think Asura is a form of Haki though...Asura is more of a transformation then just raw energy leaking out.
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Old 2008-08-11, 23:32   Link #33
Wisshard
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That qoute of mine that you just saw, I was trying to state that Three Kings was right about Nami not being able to defeat Jimbei on her own. And I already stated that Luffy would assist her in a 2 on 1 fight hopefully making their relationship closer. I'd say this should clear things up for you Mr. Wisshard.
Alright, on that I agree, Nami would never (or well, if Oda wants it than it's possible but I don't see it coming) be able to defeat Jimbei on her own. But, to return to my question, why would she want to participate in the fight in the first place? And following the unofficial condact of "honor" that even the "evil" or bad guys follow, all the big fights are 1v1.
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Old 2008-08-11, 23:37   Link #34
Wisshard
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I think of Haki as something you acquire when you reach a certain power level with the right events to trigger it.
As of now, it's only speculation with our own opinions inflaunting, but I didn't get that impression. I disagree that all the higher-ups will the potential for Haki, rather it's rare and only some person develop it, such as Luffy, his role-model Shanks and a few other unusual persons.

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Originally Posted by The_Three_Kings View Post
I don't think Asura is a form of Haki though...Asura is more of a transformation then just raw energy leaking out.
Yeah, if you recall Kaku vs. Zoro, the first manifesting of Asura looked to be unintentional as if his spirit force leaked as you said, while after he had controll over Asura.
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Old 2008-08-11, 23:48   Link #35
Rainbowman
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Alright, on that I agree, Nami would never (or well, if Oda wants it than it's possible but I don't see it coming) be able to defeat Jimbei on her own. But, to return to my question, why would she want to participate in the fight in the first place? And following the unofficial condact of "honor" that even the "evil" or bad guys follow, all the big fights are 1v1.
To answer why Nami would want to fight Jimbei in the first place is there may be something that Jimbei would know that Nami has not realized yet. Maybe something about Nami's birth parents. (Hmmm)
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Old 2008-08-12, 00:29   Link #36
The_Three_Kings
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As of now, it's only speculation with our own opinions inflaunting, but I didn't get that impression. I disagree that all the higher-ups will the potential for Haki, rather it's rare and only some person develop it, such as Luffy, his role-model Shanks and a few other unusual persons.



Yeah, if you recall Kaku vs. Zoro, the first manifesting of Asura looked to be unintentional as if his spirit force leaked as you said, while after he had controll over Asura.
I never said all the higher-ups had the haki. Might I point out the part where I said "With the right events?"

Well it was unintentional but what is intentional? Does Zoro sit down and go "Yeah Ill use this and then Ill transform in Asura"? Zoro did call upon the power of his soul because the moment was right.
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Old 2008-08-12, 00:38   Link #37
Wisshard
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I never said all the higher-ups had the haki. Might I point out the part where I said "With the right events?"
No you didn't say, and I didn't say all the higher-ups had Haki either by your theory, I said all higher-ups had potential for it (that they could develop it with the right events) - which I disagreed with.

Regarding Zoro's spirit, hehe I read wrong, I thought you said it was more of raw energy leaking out. And I don't think it's a form of Haki either, I think it's a form of Chi. But that might just be my wishing inflaunting my opinion since Haki and Chi seems familiar, it's just that I don't want Zoro to have Haki.

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Well it was unintentional but what is intentional? Does Zoro sit down and go "Yeah Ill use this and then Ill transform in Asura"? Zoro did call upon the power of his soul because the moment was right.
Well, what I meant was that the first Asura manifesting looked like it was unintentional and he discovered it there, but who knows maybe it was off screen training that developed Asura just as Luffy developed his Gears.
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Old 2008-08-12, 00:46   Link #38
The_Three_Kings
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well i think everybody can get haki cause why would only certain people get it? Do they have a weird genetic DNA? It was like Coby learning Soru, I was like WTF, i thought only CP9 knew that....
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Old 2008-08-12, 00:53   Link #39
Wisshard
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well i think everybody can get haki cause why would only certain people get it? Do they have a weird genetic DNA? It was like Coby learning Soru, I was like WTF, i thought only CP9 knew that....
Maybe it requires some immense willpower, or some other trait. Maybe it's like some people have black hair and some doesn't, maybe it is like you say and if have the guts to train yourself enough you can reach a level where you can learn Haki. But so far we have seen only a few of the strongest have been shown or rumoured to have Haki. Granted Oda might be saving it, and we haven't seen much of them of course, so my point is not very valid.

Soru is something physical, it "only" requires that you train your body like a maniac.
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Old 2008-08-12, 00:53   Link #40
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(Since the obvious connection between Buhdism/Hinduism and Zoro's future abilities has been stated, I will not go into the connection too deeply.)

Zoro's "breath" seemed to be more a form of enlightenment, a harmony with nature, that Zoro attained when he was near death while fighting Mr. 1. Specifically, upon his near death experience, Zoro said that he felt the "breath" of all things around him - the placement of the material object within a greater context. He "felt" the life of the universe around him. With this discovery, Zoro found that he could exert his will over the world, specifically by allowing his sword to cut or not to cut. He then showed this ability by "allowing" his sword not to cut a palm leaf (or, possibly, "willing" the leaf to not be cut), and then "allowing" his sword to cut through stone (or, possibly "willing" the stone to be cut). His abilities then become, not a forced control over nature, but rather the ability to work in harmony with nature, finding a way to understand the universe and see how the world works. Then again, I could be looking at this far too philosophically .

That being said, Haki seems to be more of a "forced" ability (stemming entirely from one's own willpower). Specifically, the power seems to force one's own will on another, forcing them into submission.
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