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Old 2008-08-14, 14:33   Link #81
bbduece
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
What? Why? They need to do nothing. If I say "fuck those fucking niggers", I'm a racist idiot, but I definitely don't need to apologize. However, especially in the US people seem to have a problem with ignoring idiots. There is something we like to call freedom of speech, which (un?)fortunately also includes the freedom of saying any kind of idiocy we want. Which, in a sane enough society, should paint anyone who says idiotic things as *gasp* actual idiots.

The quoted P&T episode hit the nail on the head with the "insensibility training" suggestion.
um okay...

They need to apologize, they are on Chinese soil, show some respect in another person's house. Do you not agree?
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Old 2008-08-14, 14:37   Link #82
WanderingKnight
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They need to apologize, they are on Chinese soil, show some respect in another person's house. Do you not agree?
I do not agree on the need of an apology. They don't need to do anything. I repeat, I could go outside and yell "FUCK YOU NIGGERS, I SOOOO HATE YOU! YOU'RE RIDICULOUSLY... umm... BLACK! YEAH!" and I would have no need of apologizing. Of course, most sane people would think I'm an idiot and ignore me straight away--which is the most intelligent and level-headed way of acting. But I wouldn't "need" to apologize.
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Old 2008-08-14, 14:38   Link #83
wide12
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Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
Do we really have to go through this?

"It was something like supposed to be funny or something but never offensive in any way," said Spain center Pau Gasol

http://www.startribune.com/sports/ol...D3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

Funny = amusing

So why is it funny?

It's not racism, but the sponser intended it to be funny.





When did I say that this was racism? I specifically said that this wasn't a gesture of hate. I just said it was in bad taste.






And of course the Li Ning spokesperson will try to do PR work. That's what he's paid for.



On the popular Sina.com website in China, many people were angered by the photo. "This gesture is a way of laughing at Asians," one person wrote. "It's racial discrimination for sure," added another.

But others said they didn't understand what all the fuss was about. On another website, one person said: "I don't get it. What's supposed to be offensive? Is it that badly drawn dragon in the middle?"


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ijing2008/home



Like I said before, at the very best, it's more puzzling to Chinese people. It's not like they are laughing at the picture, even though it's supposed to be funny. It's not amusing to them, just puzzling. So who is it supposed to be funny for?
Funny is not the same that "laugh at" . I agree with you that it was of "bad taste". But what's happening worldwide is going WAY overboard. If the chinese people make an statement requesting an apology, then they should do it.

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Originally Posted by bbduece View Post

They continue to refuse to officially apologize is a sign of racism. No apology, just "bad judgement on our part". WTF is that? they need to man it up and apologize if people are offended. They are lucky; the PLA should destroy them.
As I have already stated in my previous posts, it is not a sign of racism. You can call it "bad taste" "thoughtless" "stupid way of doing an ad" etc...

Last edited by wide12; 2008-08-14 at 14:41. Reason: messed up with quotes :(
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Old 2008-08-14, 14:48   Link #84
bbduece
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
I do not agree on the need of an apology. They don't need to do anything. I repeat, I could go outside and yell "FUCK YOU NIGGERS, I SOOOO HATE YOU! YOU'RE RIDICULOUSLY... umm... BLACK! YEAH!" and I would have no need of apologizing. Of course, most sane people would think I'm an idiot and ignore me straight away--which is the most intelligent and level-headed way of acting. But I wouldn't "need" to apologize.
You as a meaningless individual does merit any accountability. A team representing a nation does.
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Old 2008-08-14, 14:48   Link #85
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
I do not agree on the need of an apology. They don't need to do anything. I repeat, I could go outside and yell "FUCK YOU NIGGERS, I SOOOO HATE YOU! YOU'RE RIDICULOUSLY... umm... BLACK! YEAH!" and I would have no need of apologizing. Of course, most sane people would think I'm an idiot and ignore me straight away--which is the most intelligent and level-headed way of acting. But I wouldn't "need" to apologize.
I think people might take it a little further than just ignoring you .. everyones not intelligent and no ones completely level headed either... Theres no need to do a lot of things is there? if you went outside and yell ' <insert racist comment> ' sure you dont need to apologize, but you sure as hell should apologize. If youre fine with being looked down upon by everyone who heard that, go ahead, say it again, and never apologize. Now im not saying that everyone will hate the spanish team, or that its even a very big deal, but they are representing a nation - so, save everyone some trouble, get it over with and apologize

I'm not quite sure why theres any argument about how the chinese should react to this. If they do something that people would consider 'wrong' then there would be. As of now, theres no real reason to bring in what their reaction should be into this debate.. It was bad judgemnt and stupidity on part of the spanish team, and they should give some sort of apology, even if its just ' sorry, it was in bad taste ' - the end
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Old 2008-08-14, 14:51   Link #86
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
What? Why? They need to do nothing. If I say "fuck those fucking niggers", I'm a racist idiot, but I definitely don't need to apologize. However, especially in the US people seem to have a problem with ignoring idiots. There is something we like to call freedom of speech, which (un?)fortunately also includes the freedom of saying any kind of idiocy we want. Which, in a sane enough society, should paint anyone who says idiotic things as *gasp* actual idiots.

The quoted P&T episode hit the nail on the head with the "insensibility training" suggestion.
There is never a need to do anything. Sure, a 'racist idiot' need not apologize. Indeed, perpetrators of racist hate crimes rarely ever apologize and they seem to do fine. Yet the point seems to be that 'racist idiots' should apologize, if they are to purge themselves of the 'racist idiot' label. To be sure, most 'racist idiots' would probably opt not to apologize, because if they were sharp enough to know to apologize, they would have been smart enough not to make the racist remarks in the first place.

The Spanish Basketball Team is not a team of racist idiots, at least I hope they are not. As an Olympic team representing a country that purports to be a modern, civilized state, they are held to a higher standard. They represent their countrymen and their actions implicate not only themselves but the stature and standing of their country in the eyes of the rest of the world. The team can be oblivious to this fact or they can take responsibility and recognize that they made a gaffe to restore the honor of their people, i.e. do the right thing.

Think about it.
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Old 2008-08-14, 14:57   Link #87
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Originally Posted by wide12 View Post
Funny is not the same that "laugh at" . I agree with you that it was of "bad taste". But what's happening worldwide is going WAY overboard. If the chinese people make an statement requesting an apology, then they should do it.
If the Chinese have to make a statement requesting an apology, then the apology is inherently devalued as it was not made on the Spaniards' own initiative. And this looks bad in the international community and in Spain itself - if China requests an apology and Spain makes one, it would seem as if Spain is bending to the will of China. If Spain refuses, then the people of China would feel that they are being slighted even as they graciously host the Olympics. This is a lose-lose situation.

The best course of action is for the Spaniards to wise up and make an apology before this drags on any further.

Quote:
As I have already stated in my previous posts, it is not a sign of racism. You can call it "bad taste" "thoughtless" "stupid way of doing an ad" etc...
[/quote]

I'm interested in how you define racism. Racism has its roots in thoughtlessness and stupidity and ignorance. You may even say that bad taste contributes to it.
Where does one draw the line?
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Old 2008-08-14, 14:59   Link #88
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
I do not agree on the need of an apology. They don't need to do anything. I repeat, I could go outside and yell "FUCK YOU NIGGERS, I SOOOO HATE YOU! YOU'RE RIDICULOUSLY... umm... BLACK! YEAH!" and I would have no need of apologizing. Of course, most sane people would think I'm an idiot and ignore me straight away--which is the most intelligent and level-headed way of acting. But I wouldn't "need" to apologize.
LOL, I want you to come over to an American city and scream that as loud as you can. Let's see how little people will mind your outburst then .

Joking aside, you do not represent all of Argentina. Nor are you competing in an international event against the people you are 'joking' around with. So, of course, you do not matter (at least in regards to your personal opinion concerning another's race, creed, etc.), and you do not need to apologize for your hypothetical beliefs. But, if you were the Argentina president (though Cristina Fernández has said some stupid shit concerning the farmers and most recently her bid to control the media), you would not step in front of an audeince and repeat what you have said above (I am too much of a white American to even write the n-word ). Nor would your football team tell the media that the "Chinese will be push-overs because they can't see straight through their squinty eyes". Even if the football team were not being serious, it would still be in very bad taste.

You are simply looking at this dilemma from a too restricted view-point, at least in terms of an apology. Even if the Spanish team did nothing wrong, it is still common courtesy to apologize if many people claim offense, even if you do not view the material as offensive.
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Old 2008-08-14, 14:59   Link #89
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You as a meaningless individual does merit any accountability. A team representing a nation does.
WHOA, if you're going to expect a handful of sportsmen to represent a couple of million inhabitants in Spain, then I suggest you to use your damn head. Please.

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As an Olympic team representing a country that purports to be a modern, civilized state, they are held to a higher standard.
Bullshit. They are there to play basketball. That's it. The only thing they're held to is to their contract with the Spanish basketball association.

Quote:
They represent their countrymen
Bullshit. I don't expect the Argentinian soccer team to represent myself, and no one should. The only thing they've got to do with me is the nation they were born in. And for Argentinian footballers, most of times they don't even live here.

Quote:
and their actions implicate not only themselves but the stature and standing of their country in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Bullshit. The US isn't the best country in the world because their athletes win more medals. In the same manner, not all Spanish people are racist fucks if their team are (which, by the way, I don't think they are). Leave the whole "representation" thing to bureaucrats, politicians and foreign ministers.

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But, if you were the Argentina president (though Cristina Fernández has said some stupid shit concerning the farmers and most recently her bid to control the media), you would not step in front of an audeince and repeat what you have said above (I am too much of a white American to even write the n-word ).
A president, on the other hand, does represent something else. But then again, I don't think any of our local athletes do anything else of their public lives other than being, you know, athletes.

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You are simply lookiing at this dilemma from a too restricted view-point, at least in terms of an apology. Even if the Spanish team did nothing wrong, it is still common courtesy to apologize if many people claim offense, even if you do not view the material as offensive.
Of course, it might be common courtesy. But to scream "AN APOLOGY OR YOUR HEAD!" is as idiotic as yelling "FUCK YOU NIGGERS, I SOOOO HATE YOU! YOU'RE RIDICULOUSLY... umm... BLACK! YEAH!".
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Old 2008-08-14, 15:08   Link #90
sirtoti
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Guys, this thing is completely out of context.
If you want to criticize something, you should know about it before.
First of all: This picture is part of an advertisement of one of the sponsors of the Olympic Games, and has been taken more than a month ago.
Second: No one thinks this is racism but racists. ¿It's not racism if it's benetton but it is if it's another subject? EVEN the Chinese Embassy said that it's not an offense.
Third: The Olympic Comittee has brought a lawsuit against the Guardian, the newspaper that has "categorized" as racist this advertisement. If you read English Tabloids, that means that you only want to know what kind of sunglasses is wearing Beckham this summer... Read real newspapers if you want to know about something as that.
¿Is it racism if there's a picture of George Bush with a tipical chinese robe? (it does exist) ¿What's the difference with this one?
You can see whatever you want in a picture. If you want to see racism, you will, but don't think you're right if you don't know what's around it.

I'm spaniard, and in the EuroCup '96, we lost a match by penalties against the English Team. The day after the match, in the english press there was a picture of a Beefeater decapitating a bullfighter, and I didn't think of it as racism ¿Maybe I should? If I wanted to, for sure I could, but I don't have such a twisted mind as for thinking that everyone is always trying to insult me...
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Old 2008-08-14, 15:09   Link #91
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@WanderingKnight: I think our opinions on the matter will simply differ, so I will respectfully bow out of the discussion.

However, being someone who has been on the receiving end of the "slant eyed" shtick in the USA for the majority of my elementary and middle school years, I have to say there is a good bit of punch behind it, whether the people who subjected me to it were malicious or just plain immature.

Of course, I can't speak for the Spanish at all, and what it means, but as I said before, they do not have a good track record in international relations as far as race goes, so to me, it is only indicative of racism that they would put forth such a controversial image and refuse to apologize for it.
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Old 2008-08-14, 15:10   Link #92
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
WHOA, if you're going to expect a handful of people to represent a couple of million inhabitants in Spain, then I suggest you to use your damn head. Please.
You have a lot to learn in this world, my friend. Does Spain have a head of state? I assume he represents the interests of the inhabitants of Spain to the international community... and he is only one person! Why can't a handful of people represent the inhabitants?

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Bullshit. They are there to play basketball. That's it. The only thing they're held to is to their contract with the Spanish basketball association.
That's just an immature way of looking at things. If they are just there to play basketball, why do they have to be on a national team? The Olympics are structured in a way where athletes are chosen for their respective national teams and they represent that country in the Olympics. They are not just "there to play basketball" - people will perceive the athletes to be representative of their countrymen because THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE REPRESENTING THAT COUNTRY. Do you think Spain would put the best damn basketball player in Spain on the Spanish team if he were a serial murderer? NO WAY. Their is an image the country needs to maintain and protect.

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Bullshit. I don't expect the Argentinian soccer team to represent myself, and no one should. The only thing they've got to do with me is the nation they were born in. And for Argentinian footballers, most of times they don't even live here.
Just because you don't doesn't mean other people won't. You speak as if you were the center of the universe and everybody revolves around you. Unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way - EVEN if all of the Argentinians don't expect the soccer team to represent them (which is probably totally untrue), they will be perceived as representative in the eyes of others....

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Bullshit. The US isn't the best country in the world because their athletes win more medals. In the same manner, not all Spanish people are racist fucks if their team are (which, by the way, I don't think they are). Leave the whole "representation" thing to bureaucrats, politicians and foreign ministers.
You miss the point entirely...

and because you are adamant in defending your indefensible position, there's no need to continue this discussion.
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Old 2008-08-14, 15:11   Link #93
bbduece
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
WHOA, if you're going to expect a handful of people to represent a couple of million inhabitants in Spain, then I suggest you to use your damn head. Please.



Bullshit. They are there to play basketball. That's it. The only thing they're held to is to their contract with the Spanish basketball association.



Bullshit. I don't expect the Argentinian soccer team to represent myself, and no one should. The only thing they've got to do with me is the nation they were born in. And for Argentinian footballers, most of times they don't even live here.



Bullshit. The US isn't the best country in the world because their athletes win more medals. In the same manner, not all Spanish people are racist fucks if their team are (which, by the way, I don't think they are). Leave the whole "representation" thing to bureaucrats, politicians and foreign ministers.



A president, on the other hand, does represent something else. But then again, I don't think any of our local athletes do anything else of their public lives other than being, you know, athletes.



Of course, it might be common courtesy. But to scream "AN APOLOGY OR YOUR HEAD!" is as idiotic as yelling "FUCK YOU NIGGERS, I SOOOO HATE YOU! YOU'RE RIDICULOUSLY... umm... BLACK! YEAH!".
Anyways loosing merit as a country is Spain's lost.

I feel sorry for the people.


And yes they are accountable. It is not a matter of choice. It is a matter of respect that a respectable nation would offer. Do they wish to be view as a respectable nation or as a country of bigots? It is spain's choice.

We are all using our heads, yours seem to be clouded by affinity.

Last edited by bbduece; 2008-08-14 at 15:23.
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Old 2008-08-14, 15:18   Link #94
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Bullshit. I don't expect the Argentinian soccer team to represent myself, and no one should. The only thing they've got to do with me is the nation they were born in. And for Argentinian footballers, most of times they don't even live here.
You might not expect them to represent you, but I assure you, when they go out to compete internationally, they, as well as the country that funds them, think they are representing you. That is the point here. As long as the Spanish team is waving their large Spanish flag, and calling themselves the Spanish team, then they are representing Spain (or at least making it seem like they are representing Spain). This is not just a bunch of people who randomly met up outside the Basketball stadium, and decided to play a game of B-ball (and, of course, they randomly pick up Spanish flags, along the way). No. This is a country/corperation funded and supported team, that are working for the people who pay them.

Look at it this way. Say I run an international exporting/importing business (I will let you determine what I import/export), and I need to send an employee over to China to work out a contract concerning a possible shipment and future shipments. Now, the person I send is a good employee, always studious and helpful, and always with a smile and a joke to help relieve some of the day to day pressure, and just "on the ball" in terms of his or her abilities concerning the import/export game. Now, I send this person over to my potential Chinese business partner, and while there, right before the deal is signed, he or she says something like, "Wow, your name looks like chicken scratch" or "Are you related to Jackie Chan?" or "I'm suprised you can see out of those squinty eyes", etc. Of course, then the deals does not go through, and I am out of a potentially major client, all because of something my employee says. So, while this is entirely my employee's fault, it is also my fault for sending over such a person that could make such a potentially offensive joke.

This is, somewhat, what is going on with Spain and the Spanish team. The Spanish team had made a fool of themselves, and now Spain has to answer for their partial misconduct. True, there shouldn't be a 'demand' for the apology, but an apology should still be issued.
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Old 2008-08-14, 15:33   Link #95
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
This is, somewhat, what is going on with Spain and the Spanish team. The Spanish team had made a fool of themselves, and now Spain has to answer for their partial misconduct. True, there shouldn't be a 'demand' for the apology, but an apology should still be issued.
If you want to see a misconduct, you can. But I repeat, it seems you all are offended with the picture, and curiously, the chinese people doesn't. I really think there's important things to apologize of, not this.
If you think spaniards are racist, just see the percentaje of foreigners and what percentage of inhabitants thinks of it as a problem. You can check it because there's lots of data about it. Curiously, Spain is the only country in Europe that neglected the usage of the new "inmigration law" proposed by the european organisms for limitating the ammount of inmigrants in the union, and restricting the legality of the arriving ones.
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Old 2008-08-14, 15:33   Link #96
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This isn't really an issue of political correctness, it's an issue of ignorance. The thought that the photo might turn out offensive probably didn't even cross the Spaniards' minds.
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Old 2008-08-14, 15:41   Link #97
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Originally Posted by Yourboss View Post
If the Chinese have to make a statement requesting an apology, then the apology is inherently devalued as it was not made on the Spaniards' own initiative. And this looks bad in the international community and in Spain itself - if China requests an apology and Spain makes one, it would seem as if Spain is bending to the will of China. If Spain refuses, then the people of China would feel that they are being slighted even as they graciously host the Olympics. This is a lose-lose situation.

The best course of action is for the Spaniards to wise up and make an apology before this drags on any further.
But why would they make an apology if no one has been ofended? Do you know who brought this thing up? It was the english newspapers. Not the chinese ones.
And, from what I've read/seen, the chinese representatives didn't seem offended by this. But if they ARE , and they claim an apologize, this should be done. I think it's common sense.



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Originally Posted by Yourboss View Post
I'm interested in how you define racism. Racism has its roots in thoughtlessness and stupidity and ignorance. You may even say that bad taste contributes to it.
Where does one draw the line?

For me, (from my point of view), racism is when you attack/insult another person just because he is a foreigner, black, indian... It is a difficult matter, because if you, for example, have a car accident, and the one who caused it is a black person, you'd scream out of anger " ******* nigga" . Is that racism? It could very well be...but, if it was an obese person, the scream would be " ******* fat".
Now if we change to a person with no remarkable traits, you'd say
"******* idiot".

So, how would you define racism?
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Old 2008-08-14, 15:49   Link #98
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Originally Posted by sirtoti View Post
If you want to see a misconduct, you can. But I repeat, it seems you all are offended with the picture, and curiously, the chinese people doesn't. I really think there's important things to apologize of, not this.
If you think spaniards are racist, just see the percentaje of foreigners and what percentage of inhabitants thinks of it as a problem. You can check it because there's lots of data about it. Curiously, Spain is the only country in Europe that neglected the usage of the new "inmigration law" proposed by the european organisms for limitating the ammount of inmigrants in the union, and restricting the legality of the arriving ones.
That is why I said partial . I do not view the photo as being malicious, rather I see it as being a silly mistake. A bad joke gone awry. I have not been to Spain (it is one of the few Western European Countries I have not been to), so I have no opoinion of their possible racist tendencies (I think the Spanish team was doing something many American High Schjool Football teams do, they make fun of the opposing team (generally their mascot) right before a match). Rather, I see a failed joke that makes the Spanish team look silly. And, as with every failed joke, it is always nice to apologize (again, I do not think that anyone should demand an apology, I just think that the Spanish team should own up to their bad joke (simply admit that it was bad) and move on).
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Old 2008-08-14, 16:10   Link #99
sirtoti
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But I don't see it as a mistake. When you see the advertisement of *Malibu Coconut's Rhum a couple of years ago, there were cubans having fun in the beach and "taking it easy". ¿Do you think anyone thought that it was racism because they were characterizing cubans as "lazy people"?¿Or do you think it was a "good joke"?
It's easy. If you want to give importance to something, you can. And if the Media do, you follow it even if you don't even know which is the exact situation.
In england there's a word that is not very used, but it's very applied, "euphemism". TRying to not offend someone is not like not saying anything. I'm very tanned, and my friends call me "blacky" in spanish. ¿Do you think they're racist for that? Because there's a guy from Congo within us, and he also calls me "blacky" because my friends do. And we began calling him "milky" because he's absolutely pitch black. But as a joke, because we laugh together about our names.
Of course, if anyone hears me calling him milky, this person can think I'm racist, but... ¿why he's with us, laughing with us, going out at night with us? If I call idiot to a friend while laughing, or even son of a bitch, he's not going to get angry or offended. The way you say it is what makes the diference between jokes and insults. Words are just words, but it's meaning changes according to the way you say it.
That's why I say this picture is out of context. ¿Have you seen the advertisement? ¿What happens if this is the final frame of the recording and they're saying "come to china, it's the best"?
You don't know it, so you figure out it's done in a silly way
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Old 2008-08-14, 16:14   Link #100
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You have a lot to learn in this world, my friend.
Not as much as you have to learn in logic.

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Does Spain have a head of state? I assume he represents the interests of the inhabitants of Spain to the international community... and he is only one person! Why can't a handful of people represent the inhabitants?
I think I mentioned pretty clearly that politicians and foreign ministers are a different matter entirely. But, let's look at examples to indulge you, shall we?

Do you think that the fact that Bush is either a) the head of a massive genocide in Iraq only to indulge his friends in the arms and oil corporations, which includes lying about WMDs and all that jazz, or b) a complete idiot or loon (pick what you may depending on which kind of reasoning behind his actions you want to believe) makes me think all Americans are like that? Do you think I'm prejudging all of the people from the US posting on this forum on account of Bush's actions? Do you believe that anyone doing it would be right? Same goes for any other country.

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If they are just there to play basketball, why do they have to be on a national team?
Because they're all from the same country. But you know, over here we have this thing called FREEDOM OF SPEECH and FREEDOM OF THOUGHT that allows anyone to think and say whatever they want. In the same manner, ANY athlete may think or speak in any way they want, and they're responsible for their own words and actions.

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The Olympics are structured in a way where athletes are chosen for their respective national teams and they represent that country in the Olympics.
They are not chosen--they've proved their worth in their specific field, which is, (surprisingly enough?) sports. Not politics. They're just that, people who're good at sports and athletics in general. Giving them any other kind of relevance is pointless.

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They are not just "there to play basketball" - people will perceive the athletes to be representative of their countrymen because THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE REPRESENTING THAT COUNTRY.
THEY'RE REPRESENTING THAT COUNTRY in BASKETBALL. Not in politics. They're free to think whatever they want about Chinese people, and they're responsible for their own actions.

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Do you think Spain would put the best damn basketball player in Spain on the Spanish team if he were a serial murderer? NO WAY.
They wouldn't because he would be either in trial or in jail. Please, use your head before giving a stupid example.

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Their is an image the country needs to maintain and protect.
An image to maintain and protect in... what? Basketball? Why don't yanks and brits (the only ones making a fuss out of this) worry about THEIR image instead? Why don't yanks get out of Iraq, for example? I think that's far more meaningful than maintaining an image in basketball.

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Just because you don't doesn't mean other people won't. You speak as if you were the center of the universe and everybody revolves around you.
No, I'm making use of logics and the right every person has to keep their own opinion on things to make a statement. If other people believe their sportsmen represent their country in anything other than the sport they're practicing, well, off they go. I believe there are more important things to worry and make a fuss about.

Of course, with the amount of money spent on the Olympics and several other sports competitions (and the huge amount the ones who invest in those events earn), it's probably to be expected that most people with money pay more attention to games than to really important issues.

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Unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way - EVEN if all of the Argentinians don't expect the soccer team to represent them (which is probably totally untrue),
Damn right it's untrue. I meet people on the street who're like that every day. They're probably the ones who fall for the "Go Argentina!"-smeared Coca-Cola commercials, too, and believe football to be some sort of life or death situation.

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they will be perceived as representative in the eyes of others....
Fuck others. If they're not smart enough to grasp the difference between personal opinions, and the fact that being born on the same place doesn't necessarily make you act the same way, then they don't deserve my attention.

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You miss the point entirely...

and because you are adamant in defending your indefensible position, there's no need to continue this discussion.
Sure, close the discussion yourself. I've shown you that my position, based on the basic right of freedom of speech, is defensible enough. Are you going to bother in defending yours?

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Do they wish to be view as a respectable nation or as a country of bigots?
YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING THE DAMN DISTINCTION. The way their athletes behave has NOTHING, I say NOTHING to do with the way Spaniards in general behave. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD, PLEASE!

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You might not expect them to represent you, but I assure you, when they go out to compete internationally, they, as well as the country that funds them, think they are representing you. That is the point here. As long as the Spanish team is waving their large Spanish flag, and calling themselves the Spanish team, then they are representing Spain (or at least making it seem like they are representing Spain). This is not just a bunch of people who randomly met up outside the Basketball stadium, and decided to play a game of B-ball (and, of course, they randomly pick up Spanish flags, along the way). No. This is a country/corperation funded and supported team, that are working for the people who pay them.
The problem with this is that you're giving them a relevance they do not deserve. They're basketball players. Yes, they're partly funded by the government, but they do not speak on behalf of the whole country, and they should not be expected to. The only thing the government funds is their participation in the Games. Whatever they do outside the game is on account of the team. I understand how people *might* find that offensive, and draw a false parallelism with the rest of the Spanish population--but I believe you should agree with me; that's a stupid thing to do.

Now, please note that the only people complaining are the US and the UK! You'd expect the Chinese media (as someone mentioned as an argument against them responding anything to this, "controlled by the government") to use that as a buff for Chinese nationalism, which is what sensationalism usually does (find a false enemy to get people together). However, I haven't heard a single word from them. And no, a handful of bloggers do not represent the whole country.

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This isn't really an issue of political correctness, it's an issue of ignorance.
Ignorance of what? Of the susceptibilities the US and UK media uses to sell more print copies and ad space?

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The thought of all this melodramatic bullshit being used by the US and UK media probably didn't even cross the Spaniards' minds.
That's more like it.
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