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Old 2008-09-28, 23:18   Link #101
TigerII
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Lol, you take things way too literally. That was just an expression of how annoying she was. Trust me, I value human life far more than many.
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Old 2008-09-28, 23:24   Link #102
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Don't worry, I happen to be someone who takes things easy as well. Though I do take things very literally and use them against people in arguments and get things intense sometimes, I'm still someone who can still accept things very well.

You cool down and so do I, I'll end my argument with you here.

But back at the topic, I still hold that the stereotypes are there because the audience like them.

It can't be helped if the country of origin doesn't agree.

Just like Italy, from what I heard, Italians don't each spagetti every day.

And there's also stereotypes being accepted positively, like Hawaii, which got related to pineapples even though they weren't originally there. They took up the stereotype and everyone goes there for pineapples now.
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Old 2008-09-29, 00:12   Link #103
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ya'll really need to seek out those old 60s international cast "race" and "travel" films ..... each team was played by famous character actors from each country... over-the-top goofy.
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Old 2008-09-29, 04:35   Link #104
Slice of Life
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I don't quite understand the sudden turnaround from the general criticism in the
Spanish/Chinese photo thread which I perceived as overly PC and essentially boiling down to "you don't do that because you don't do that because we have decided this is bad".

Now it looks as if the emerging consensus seems to be this one

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
But back at the topic, I still hold that the stereotypes are there because the audience like them.

It can't be helped if the country of origin doesn't agree.
which at least to me translates as "when [insert majority group/group in power] likes to ridicule or defame [insert minory/powerless group] then tough luck, the people have spoken."

I can't really bring these views together.
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Old 2008-09-29, 12:53   Link #105
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When it comes to Soul Eater, I don't think Patty and Liz come down to stereotypes of their culture, but more of character stereotypes with the Tsukkomi and Boke. But they do seem to be on rather serious sides of the spectrum since Liz appears more serious and has a large level of care. The extra thing you can tact on would be how she gets frightened easily. Patty is quite child-like and silly with how she talks, acts, basically everything. However, she does seem to have an untapped yandere side to her. Feels like the fact that they are from Brooklyn is just sort of random.

On an unrelated note, isn't it strange how similar Patty and Patty from Lucky Star look/act? Creeps me out, but I'm wondering if I'm the only one.
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Old 2008-09-29, 13:08   Link #106
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No. the 2 Pattys are completely different.

SE Patty sis a complete airhead who loves her sister more than anything. She will not become clever anytime soon but her love for her sister with continue.

LS Patty is eager to learn and adapt, her behaviour is the result of her observation on otaku culture. She shaped herself into an ultimate moe gaijin and will continue to improve.
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Old 2008-09-29, 15:03   Link #107
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Some users are comparing anime to western television, and that's incorrect. Because in essence, anime is an art form. So it would be weird to compare it to say, a drama show like 90210. Anime in comparison would be compared to western cartoons, not real life drama or shows. You would have to compare japanese drama's and shows to it's american counterparts.

And in that aspect, western cartoons and comics are way better regarding stereotypes and image than it's japanese counterpart. It's one of the reasons why I like it better.

Ex. Name one black anime lady as cool as Storm.

Exactly.
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Old 2008-09-29, 15:30   Link #108
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@babybro

I that agree people should that people should be compare should be compare anime to their western counterparts

but I disagree that western television shows aren't a art form beside art is a way of expression .Anime, television comics and many others are just the mediums used to express an opinion story emotion, or whatever.

Of course you're right that western entertainment does a better job regarding stereotype, however I think it's due to the fact that the west is so diverse where as in Japan it's more homogeneous.

I'm not making excuses though, If the creator want to add a foreigner in their anime they should aleast get it right
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Old 2008-09-29, 19:45   Link #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animeboy12 View Post
@babybro

I that agree people should that people should be compare should be compare anime to their western counterparts

but I disagree that western television shows aren't a art form beside art is a way of expression .Anime, television comics and many others are just the mediums used to express an opinion story emotion, or whatever.

Of course you're right that western entertainment does a better job regarding stereotype, however I think it's due to the fact that the west is so diverse where as in Japan it's more homogeneous.

I'm not making excuses though, If the creator want to add a foreigner in their anime they should aleast get it right

Hmm..television shows and movies being an art form? I never thought of it that way. So would that means play's and broadway shows are also art form? Just an off topic question.
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Old 2008-09-29, 19:53   Link #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babybro View Post
Hmm..television shows and movies being an art form? I never thought of it that way. So would that means play's and broadway shows are also art form? Just an off topic question.
if it's an expression it's art form, so yes play's and broadway would be considered art
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Old 2008-09-29, 19:55   Link #111
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Um... yeah, theatre has always been an art form (of which television/movies are simply descendants of).
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Old 2008-09-29, 20:36   Link #112
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Theatre is art, film is art, drama is art, comedy is art, even hosting is an art besides a profession.

And western comics started out as a revolution against art in the west which is controlled by the church. People found that they can't express art freely because the church would state whatever pieces they want to see and for that people created comics and did not call them art so they can express their ideas freely.

And again @ babybro: name one Japanese that's even half as hotblooded as any super robot pilot in any western media.

Just having slit or slanted eyes for Japanese, Chinese and Koreans is as much stereotyping there in the west. And why is it this way? Like associating americans with cowboy hats, italians with spagetti and such? Its the identity that the world sees those nations and races with. That's why China had to do such a grand Olympics to try and change the world's opinions about them.
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Old 2008-09-29, 21:27   Link #113
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well there actually quite a few strong Japanese comic characters, Katana, Doctor Light, Psylocke, and Silver Samurai. Also you got Hiro Nakamura from heroes. Either way I agree babybro and the west has done a better job in portraying characters from other races.

Personally I really don't care for the noticeable feature slanted eyes, the spagetti, or the cowboy hats. Another problem, beside they fact that the stereotypes are outdated, foreigners in most anime series just feeling inferior in intellect compared to Japanese counterparts.

In code geass both sides Japanese and Britannian(European) felt equal in intellect and despite the which side characters were on they felt real respectable, and both sides acknowledged each and respected each other.

In a bunch of anime especially comedy the foreigner feel so fake and stupid. I've seen anime series were she/he finished highschool or college at a young age then I see the way the character acts and just shake my head.
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Old 2008-09-29, 21:43   Link #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animeboy12 View Post
well there actually quite a few strong Japanese comic characters, Katana, Doctor Light, Psylocke, and Silver Samurai. Also you got Hiro Nakamura from heroes. Either way I agree babybro and the west has done a better job in portraying characters from other races.

Personally I really don't care for the noticeable feature slanted eyes, the spagetti, or the cowboy hats. Another problem, beside they fact that the stereotypes are outdated, foreigners in most anime series just feeling inferior in intellect compared to Japanese counterparts.

In code geass both sides Japanese and Britannian(European) felt equal in intellect and despite the which side characters were on they felt real respectable, and both sides acknowledged each and respected each other.

In a bunch of anime especially comedy the foreigner feel so fake and stupid. I've seen anime series were she/he finished highschool or college at a young age then I see the way the character acts and just shake my head.
Well, Japanese is infamous for their xenophobia and have great pride in their own country.

Really clever, amazing, pure genius, powerful westerners: L(he's british), Roger Smith(Big O), Lelouch, Sandman(Gravion), the Great Char Eznable(French origin), actually I can go on and on.

Anime like Big O, Eureka 7 and alot of others, can even have a full western cast, something you'll never see in the west, not even in their cartoons and comics.

There are also tons of times, the westerner is potrayed as a genius from overseas, a super bishie that the girls go crazy over his looks and even just engrish.
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Old 2008-09-30, 00:08   Link #115
babybro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Theatre is art, film is art, drama is art, comedy is art, even hosting is an art besides a profession.

And western comics started out as a revolution against art in the west which is controlled by the church. People found that they can't express art freely because the church would state whatever pieces they want to see and for that people created comics and did not call them art so they can express their ideas freely.

And again @ babybro: name one Japanese that's even half as hotblooded as any super robot pilot in any western media.

Just having slit or slanted eyes for Japanese, Chinese and Koreans is as much stereotyping there in the west. And why is it this way? Like associating americans with cowboy hats, italians with spagetti and such? Its the identity that the world sees those nations and races with. That's why China had to do such a grand Olympics to try and change the world's opinions about them.
C'mon now, please don't even try to compare the west to the east in regards to the amount of stereotypes. You would be fighting a extreme losing battle. For every one (which is very rare nowadays) slanted eye character, you can name 5 to ten more that are cool to bad a$$. And yet even still, ESPECIALLY in comic books, you very rarely seen those stereotypes exist.

On the other hand, Killer Bee which was the latest addition to the stereotypical black image and he just came out no more than 3-4 weeks ago.
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Old 2008-09-30, 01:00   Link #116
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babybro View Post
C'mon now, please don't even try to compare the west to the east in regards to the amount of stereotypes. You would be fighting a extreme losing battle. For every one (which is very rare nowadays) slanted eye character, you can name 5 to ten more that are cool to bad a$$. And yet even still, ESPECIALLY in comic books, you very rarely seen those stereotypes exist.

On the other hand, Killer Bee which was the latest addition to the stereotypical black image and he just came out no more than 3-4 weeks ago.
You've just shown yourself to be arguing in about the same way as I am.

You feel the amount of stereotypes shown in the west is less than what Japan does. And I as an asian sees more or less the same amount of stereotypes being shown in western films.

Its just that you'll have problems with the stereotypes you're seeing, but I'm fine with what I'm seeing. Chinese traitors, evil chinese emperors and dictators, chinese/japanese who speak engrish, wielding kung fu to be shot by guns etc. I'm fine with them.

Unless you want to play who has the longest list the stereotypes.

By the way I'm Singaporean Chinese. In Singapore, we have shows from all over the world on our tv, we are multiracial and cultural, we see stereotypes of all other countries all the time. We can't be considered eastern or western, because our official language is Malay, while the majority of the population is chinese and we are encourage to speak English. We don't really side with the East or West, we just see that the west has more stereotyping, maybe because Hollywood has the most influence in film compared to others.
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Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
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Old 2008-09-30, 18:41   Link #117
babybro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
You've just shown yourself to be arguing in about the same way as I am.

You feel the amount of stereotypes shown in the west is less than what Japan does. And I as an asian sees more or less the same amount of stereotypes being shown in western films.

Its just that you'll have problems with the stereotypes you're seeing, but I'm fine with what I'm seeing. Chinese traitors, evil chinese emperors and dictators, chinese/japanese who speak engrish, wielding kung fu to be shot by guns etc. I'm fine with them.

Unless you want to play who has the longest list the stereotypes.

By the way I'm Singaporean Chinese. In Singapore, we have shows from all over the world on our tv, we are multiracial and cultural, we see stereotypes of all other countries all the time. We can't be considered eastern or western, because our official language is Malay, while the majority of the population is chinese and we are encourage to speak English. We don't really side with the East or West, we just see that the west has more stereotyping, maybe because Hollywood has the most influence in film compared to others.
I just want to be perfectly clear. I am not talking about American Television such as action shows, teen drama's and things of that nature because on that aspect, there are tons of stereotype, easily rivaling anime IMO. However, that is not what I'm talking about.

I am comparing Japanese Manga to American Comics, Japanese Anime to Western Cartoons, and in that aspect, (excluding the chinese/japanese speaking english) many of the stereotypes you mention a very low. Especially cartoons. Cartoons because there are not too many Adult cartoons and Parents are very vocal over things they find inappropriate for their children, and stereotypes are one of them.

(Hence why Ren and Stimpy were taken off the air, and Boondocks continue to struggle to get their next season out.)
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Old 2008-10-01, 10:40   Link #118
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You've obviously never seen the episode of Simpsons where they go to (something vaguely resembling) Japan.
It was so offensive, it was banned from airing in Japan, thank you.
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Old 2008-10-01, 11:52   Link #119
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The Brazillian episode was heavily protested here, too. Even with a repeat "offending" joke in a later episode, as well. I, for one, didn't find any of it all that offensive, so I don't really think the Japan portrayed there was so bad (neither any other other country's representation, actually).
It is a comedy series, after all, and not many places are made to look weirder than their own Springfield.

Too much importance given to things you want forgotten actually makes 'em seem more important/interesting than they should be, so...
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Old 2008-10-01, 12:42   Link #120
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Funny that the Simpsons spend 99.9% of the time lampooning and skewering America, american sacred cows, american culture, and american icons... but throw in some jabs at japan, brazil, or whatever and suddenly that's offensive and not okay. sheesh..... the Simpsons simply follow the mantra of "IS NOTHING SACRED?" and skewer it.

It would be wrong NOT to be consistent on that matter.
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