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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 39 35.45%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 37 33.64%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 14.55%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 9.09%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.73%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.82%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.73%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-08-17, 02:48   Link #281
Wesley84
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Join Date: Feb 2008
I liked the Ranka/Bresra scenes, and the concert. Everything else sucked, though I did like Alto trying to sneak into his own home.

Waiting to see President Glace get his brains splattered was fun. Though I wonder why they confronted Leon directly instead of attempting to warn Cathy's father first...
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Old 2008-08-17, 03:07   Link #282
germanturkey
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that picture of ranka a few pages back makes me want to kill myself. this ep basically made me want to stop watching the show. it highlights just how immature ranka really is. the way they drew her didn't help either. i think they made her look more loli to press a point.

hopefully she'll kick the bucket at the end. a character of her caliber deserves nothing less. its kind of hard to keep a character on for so long when a majority of your fanbase (estimated) HATES her.
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Old 2008-08-17, 03:11   Link #283
Darial
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Nah, Ranka is actually pretty popular in Japan. But then again, I think it's because of all the lolicons there.
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Old 2008-08-17, 03:26   Link #284
Wesley84
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Yeah, because there's absolutely nothing redeemable about Ranka's character besides implications of incest, puberscent sexuality, beastility, and yuri-undertones.
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Old 2008-08-17, 03:40   Link #285
lone_wolf
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Originally Posted by Mughi View Post
Not picking you outta the crowd at all Mike, you just put two things into the same post conveniently... Thanks.

Everyone, we're dealing with animation... DUH! Some artists are better than others, so our characters WILL look "off model" from time to time... Even Disney characters have this problem.

Remember SDF Macross had some really unbelievably horrible art in certain episodes... seemed like every 3rd or 4th eps was done by animators with no talent at all... Go re-watch the scene where Miriya and Max have their knife fight in the park, ending with them falling into each other's arms. We were well invested in the characters by that time, so it plays quite emotionally... but the animation SUCKED! BIG, HARD, RAW, NASTY, SUCKING animation. SO far off model that Max looked like a midget and Miriya like a mannequin. And there were endless examples that were even worse! But it was an awesome series, and still plays well all these years later because the ideas and characterizations made you care.... Well they made ME care anyway...

Thank goodness Macross Frontier hasn't suffered from any shows as poorly animated as those!

What we're dealing with here is a failure to communicate... between the Character Designer's model art and the Artist. AND probably a fight against the clock. See, while we are all sitting here arguing about what's going on and whining about when the next episode is going to hit air, there are animators killing themselves to crank out the animation... Blue line, inbetween, check, outline, ink & paint, get it sequenced, composited, recorded, and readied for broadcast. Sometimes due to rewrites, shortages of supplies, confusion of scheduling, and a hundred other little things, the studio gets behind and then has to rush it. That means simplified art, off model characters and just plain weird looking animation....

Sheryl is not Mannish. She's HOT! That's not to say there haven't been problems with how she's been drawn in various places during the series. Look closely at some of the concert footage, or how she looks in the scenes flying in Alto's arms in the sunset... downright unattractive, and not like herself at all. Check out how terrible Mihail looks just before Sheryl comes up the stairs in this episode... Same problem as Sheryl at the Saotome home. Something got rushed in this show...

As for Ranka's odd puffy appearance in the "puppy dog" shot we're all referencing. THAT was the artist approximating the distortion you get from lensing a shot really close. The camera bends the subject and makes the closer areas look "puffed up" while the rest of the background falls away. This doesn't actually happen in animation cameras, because everything is shot flat. And even less so if you're using a digital process, because there's no camera at all. But it's an "effect" that the artists like to draw as a way of emphasizing the character by making them look like they have their nose right in the lens, for impact. It looks strange and warped on purpose and isn't meant to be examined so critically.

Can we stop sniping at how the characters look in these scenes now please folks?


Whether the animation is up to par or not it's perfectly legitimate discussion, however this most likely is the wrong thread to do so. And most of us old timers are familiar with the animation process, thanks.

LOL, there have been arguments about things like this a few months ago during the earlier episodes as we had discovered that Studio Nue had outsourced to several other smaller studios. (Most animation studios carry just an A and B team but from what I've seen it seems to have extended beyond that)

Even if you prefer this topic to cease, it's still going to keep coming up so don't bother....if the mods deem it unappropriate, then they'll remove this discussion and place it elsewhere.

If the discussions here don't suit your purpose then perhaps a more appropriate place for you is Macross World unless you have already visited that forum. No harm done...just providing options.



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Old 2008-08-17, 03:47   Link #286
.Mero
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Ugh finally watched it with subs.

Not really an outstanding episode imho, but it provided the needed character development again. some insight in Mikhail, Alto's brother + past. And afcourse awesome footage of Klan and Mikhail on a date on 'Pier 39' Loved that shot ^^

Ranka got slapped it the face, could be a good start for her development (second, i mean third shot, or is it the forth already? )

Spoiler for for previeuw of ep 20:
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Old 2008-08-17, 04:16   Link #287
kilroy0097
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After watching the Sub version of Ep 19 finally I understand what I was misunderstanding about a few of the scenes. You bilingual peeps are lucky. While I still disagree with a few points I will concede others. I'm not going to bring it up again because this thread doesn't need anymore debate on it.

I have to be sympathetic a little with Ranka at the end though. She finally understands, at least to herself, why she is singing and is all pumped up to finally tell Alto her true feelings. Then bam lets rip that possibility to shreds. I really don't know how she could sing again with that kind of set back or at least sing well. I don't need to debate anything about Ranka again. This is just an observation about her and her simple one tracked mind. * insert obligatory bitch about her poor artist design here*

Looking at Alto x Sheryl reactions I have no doubt now that she was not "being sick" and it was an honest embrace probably from her to him since we all know Alto is too much of a wimp and too dense to make any sort of move himself. I could be wrong.

I was glad Michael said what he said to Alto because seriously any less brain cells and I think Alto would stop breathing. He's playing the dumb jock to a "T" which makes no sense with his skill set. I think they could have done a much much better job with his character than they have. I've seen no real depth from Alto in personality. He's very two dimensional. Unlike his past which is rather extensive. His personality should match his past somewhat which I feel it does not.

I'm waiting for Brera to get a memory flashback hit to the head and suddenly realize Ranka is his sister and then take out Grace as he's really the only on I think with the physical strength and skill to do so. Cyborg on Cyborg... Fight!
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Old 2008-08-17, 04:28   Link #288
Wesley84
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Grace would probably kick his ass...until Ai-kun stomps her flat.

I don't really think it's bad animation with Ranka. Rather the artists take some liberities with her character when expressing her. They're having fun with her character in other words. Make her look a little extra goofy in one scene or another. And I like it when people show enjoyment through their work.

I really hate Alto's brother. If he's so damn confident that The Stage is irresistable, why lie about their father being sick? Why use a sick woman to manipulate him? He's sleazebag through and through, and I hope Alto's dad kicks him out of the house when Alto finally comes back.
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Old 2008-08-17, 04:32   Link #289
ickem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilroy0097 View Post
After watching the Sub version of Ep 19 finally I understand what I was misunderstanding about a few of the scenes. You bilingual peeps are lucky. While I still disagree with a few points I will concede others. I'm not going to bring it up again because this thread doesn't need anymore debate on it.

I have to be sympathetic a little with Ranka at the end though. She finally understands, at least to herself, why she is singing and is all pumped up to finally tell Alto her true feelings. Then bam lets rip that possibility to shreds. I really don't know how she could sing again with that kind of set back or at least sing well. I don't need to debate anything about Ranka again. This is just an observation about her and her simple one tracked mind. * insert obligatory bitch about her poor artist design here*

Looking at Alto x Sheryl reactions I have no doubt now that she was not "being sick" and it was an honest embrace probably from her to him since we all know Alto is too much of a wimp and too dense to make any sort of move himself. I could be wrong.

I was glad Michael said what he said to Alto because seriously any less brain cells and I think Alto would stop breathing. He's playing the dumb jock to a "T" which makes no sense with his skill set. I think they could have done a much much better job with his character than they have. I've seen no real depth from Alto in personality. He's very two dimensional. Unlike his past which is rather extensive. His personality should match his past somewhat which I feel it does not.

I'm waiting for Brera to get a memory flashback hit to the head and suddenly realize Ranka is his sister and then take out Grace as he's really the only on I think with the physical strength and skill to do so. Cyborg on Cyborg... Fight!
Grace probably totally outclasses Brera though in the equipment department. It'll probably take a mecha to take her out.
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Old 2008-08-17, 05:52   Link #290
nanatsusaya
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Hey in next ep preview Frontier will be gravely assaulted by the Vajra. Where do you think the Songtress of hope will be instead of preventing it to happen by using her songs? Would she actually just sulk in a corner waiting to be found by Alto and would he say smt like Hikaru did to urge her to sing for the sake of everyone? With a slap preferably.

Sorry Ranka, that's just my speculation
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Old 2008-08-17, 05:59   Link #291
KiNA
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Originally Posted by ickem View Post
Grace probably totally outclasses Brera though in the equipment department. It'll probably take a mecha to take her out.
Spoiler for I agree:


Only Gar Bobby would be capable to go against that , since his eyes only set for Ozma

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Old 2008-08-17, 06:09   Link #292
FlareKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
I really hate Alto's brother. If he's so damn confident that The Stage is irresistible, why lie about their father being sick? Why use a sick woman to manipulate him? He's sleazebag through and through, and I hope Alto's dad kicks him out of the house when Alto finally comes back.
Now that's a guy you can dislike without issue. He really has been throwing lowblows out left and right. Doing everything he possibly can to pull Alto back to the stage because of his belief. I mean using someone that is seriously sick to try and manipulate him is just pushing the envelop. Wouldn't mind if someone fairly negative happened to him before the series ended.

Could reach seriously obvious comment, but wow there is a lot of Ranka dislike on the forum. Guess I didn't end up spending enough time in the Macross area to pick that up. Do like both Sheryl and Ranka who have problems that go above whether they are the ones to win the Alto sweepstakes. Do wonder about Sheryl's future since there doesn't seem to be a way to save her from dying fairly soon. Not to mention the connection to the Vajra Ranka has and the dangers that might pose to her.

At least Mikhail and Klan are always a nice pair. Thank you Mikhail though for spelling things out for Alto. He must have been told the amount of episodes that are left and knew that if we waited for Alto this could turn into a very long series .
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Old 2008-08-17, 06:16   Link #293
KiNA
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What are the chance of Sheryl already told Alto offscreen? And that hug in the end is really a hug? Not because Sheryl faint or something? There's always a flash scene about it afterward with Alto chasing Ranka (with Sheryl's blessing) explaining the situation?
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Old 2008-08-17, 06:30   Link #294
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What are the chance of Sheryl already told Alto offscreen? And that hug in the end is really a hug? Not because Sheryl faint or something? There's always a flash scene about it afterward with Alto chasing Ranka (with Sheryl's blessing) explaining the situation?
I´m guessing we will get a short flashback scene to what Sheryl tells Alto, before Dog-Ears arrives.

After that, everything is open, if the president gets shot immediately. Could be instant chaos, then interrupted by Vajra attacks.
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Old 2008-08-17, 06:38   Link #295
KiNA
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I dont think president will die yet.. it would be a little win for that damn bastard Leon.. I think Ai and brothers save the president by starting the havoc first. XD

Wanting a full city destruction instead of one president dying.. I'm evil ._.
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Old 2008-08-17, 06:39   Link #296
hai_san
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Finaly watch the gg sub, great ep, this forum is crazy i havent watch the ep yet but there is already nearly 300 post about the shippwars There is heavy crossfire between the Sheryl and Ranka factions while the Sheryls fans dominate, some slighty bad comment about either will get targeted by both sides
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Old 2008-08-17, 06:45   Link #297
magnuskn
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I dont think president will die yet.. it would be a little win for that damn bastard Leon.. I think Ai and brothers save the president by starting the havoc first. XD

Wanting a full city destruction instead of one president dying.. I'm evil ._.
It´s do or die for Leon now. Cathy and Ozma have the goods on him, so either he becomes the executive or executed.
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Old 2008-08-17, 07:28   Link #298
magnuskn
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So, I finally got to see the episode with subtitles, and I am a teensy bit less annoyed at Ranka.

She clearly misunderstood Altos intentions and when she ran up those stairs, she wasn´t thinking that Alto was already awaiting her there all lovey-dovey, but rather she herself had finally worked up the courage to tell him about her feelings.

Still, that was a weak-ass song before, and Sheryl still is miles ahead as a person.


Hrm, one teensy detail I found annoying was that when Micheal was giving Alto his talk ( Michael really has become a neutral arbiter, btw... Klan is firmly in the Sheryl-camp however. ^^ ), gg translated one line as "But when she ( Sheryl ) learned what had happened, she became interested in your right away."

I think they meant to say "...she became concerned for your right away." Right, Ickem? ^^
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Old 2008-08-17, 07:31   Link #299
kilroy0097
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I don't know about the president dying. If he does die then that would put Leon in charge and hence the preview scene for the next episode that shows the guards bearing their rifles on Cathy and Ozma. Or he could have been winged by the bullet due to some luck in which case Leon thinks he's won and orders the guards to take Cathy and Ozma into custody.

If the president is dead and Leon is brought to justice, what are the odds that Cathy, the president's daughter, runs for the office and becomes the new "president" for Frontier?
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Old 2008-08-17, 07:32   Link #300
magnuskn
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Originally Posted by kilroy0097 View Post
I don't know about the president dying. If he does die then that would put Leon in charge and hence the preview scene for the next episode that shows the guards bearing their rifles on Cathy and Ozma. Or he could have been winged by the bullet due to some luck in which case Leon thinks he's won and orders the guards to take Cathy and Ozma into custody.

If the president is dead and Leon is brought to justice, what are the odds that Cathy, the president's daughter, runs for the office and becomes the new "president" for Frontier?
Spoiler:

Last edited by magnuskn; 2008-08-17 at 10:05.
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