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Old 2008-08-30, 14:50   Link #81
WanderingKnight
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Kyoto Animation should concentrate on animating bishoujo games, shounen (boy's) light novels, and male oriented moe 4-panel manga :P
I'd say that's pretty sad. Kyoani of all new studios does show tremendous potential, but I'm saddened by their inability to come up with something original (as in not adapted from anything, especially not yet another Key eroge).

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I don't want to see them become a jack of all trades. That's a one way street to crapiness.
Yeah, Bones especially has done pretty crappy down this path
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Old 2008-08-30, 15:19   Link #82
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Indeed. On the contrary, I think trying to maintain the status quo--whatever it happens to be--is in most cases what really leads to mediocrity.
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Old 2008-08-30, 21:19   Link #83
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Does the cancellation mean new Haruhi for fall '08-spring 09?
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Old 2008-08-30, 21:48   Link #84
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I'd say that's pretty sad. Kyoani of all new studios does show tremendous potential, but I'm saddened by their inability to come up with something original (as in not adapted from anything, especially not yet another Key eroge).
You might be interested in watching munto then. Still, I think people and companies should stick to what they are good at. In the classical music realm, there are multiple people who excelled at composing but were mediocre at performing even their own work (like Sergei Rachmaninoff), and other who are sucky composers but whose performances are beyond words. (say, Kissin, or Karajan). If KyoAni is best at adapting other people's works, then why not letting it?

Then you have once in a humanity lifetime geniuses like Franz Lizt and Mozart but that is a whole other matter.
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Old 2008-08-30, 21:57   Link #85
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You might be interested in watching munto then.
So, their only original works have been a couple of not very successful OVAs? How does that fare with the also rather new Bones, for example? They've pulled off a lot more series than Kyoani, many of them original works, and they're not much newer. Still, Bones seems to get too little recognition for what they do when compared to Kyoani, even when they've had fanboyish hits like Fullmetal Alchemist.

I'm not saying Kyoani is bad, though. I'm saying it's not as good as it could be.

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Then you have once in a humanity lifetime geniuses like Franz Lizt and Mozart but that is a whole other matter.
Because many people seem somewhat convinced that Kyoani IS some sort of Lizt or Mozart.
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Old 2008-08-30, 22:14   Link #86
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Bones has had more original works. Xam'd is great (original work). Sword of the Stranger (original work) was great. Soul Eater (manga based) was great when I was watching it. But as Skyfall said, these titles may not be for everybody. In fact, they are aimed at R1 with appeal to R2 which may be why KyoAni gets more press. KyoAni's stuff is aimed at R2 with some appeal in R1.

Munto series is not completed yet. Its few fans need some resolution.
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Old 2008-08-30, 22:15   Link #87
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.
Because many people seem somewhat convinced that Kyoani IS some sort of Lizt or Mozart.
In reply,

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So, their only original works have been a couple of not very successful OVAs?
There. (Not to mention that Mozart is considered in various circles the greatest genius humanity has ever produced, so it's a little difficult to duplicate his achievements )

In any case, I add myself to the crowd of people who pity the fact that a chance was lost at KyoAni trying their luck with something new. A shame, a shame really. Now they could take a peek at their backlog (key's works, haruhi second season, fmp, munto 3rd OVA) and pick something at random. That or picking a new series, abandon it in the way so they can leave even more fans in despair.

Sometimes I wonder if that isn't their plan all along. Anyone up for a kyoani conspirancy theories thread?
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Old 2008-08-30, 22:26   Link #88
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I doubt that in the grand scheme of things that people are going to be in despair for very long. Once they announce Haruhi or Planetarian, it will all wash away like what happens after a Spring shower.

Planetarian can be made to be dark and violent so it would be something new for them. With Chaos;HEAd coming out, it would be a nice title to also release soon.
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Old 2008-08-30, 22:28   Link #89
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Tell that to the Full Metal Panic and Munto fans.
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Old 2008-08-30, 22:31   Link #90
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FMP fans can buy the Blu-ray versions that are being released. So they won't have money for the DVDs.

Munto fans are used to waiting. It's our lot in life.

They just need to release Planetarian before Umineko steals the show.
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Old 2008-09-02, 04:59   Link #91
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
So, their only original works have been a couple of not very successful OVAs? How does that fare with the also rather new Bones, for example? They've pulled off a lot more series than Kyoani, many of them original works, and they're not much newer. Still, Bones seems to get too little recognition for what they do when compared to Kyoani, even when they've had fanboyish hits like Fullmetal Alchemist.

I'm not saying Kyoani is bad, though. I'm saying it's not as good as it could be.



Because many people seem somewhat convinced that Kyoani IS some sort of Lizt or Mozart.
KyoAni IS a genius Studio. It's just not your usual kind of genius.

There had been many good anime in the past. And most of them are NOT animated by KyoAni. So quality isn't what made them stood out.
And original content certainly isn't their forte.

What made KyoAni special, is that they have adapted source materials into anime far more successfully than anyone ever thought possible.

To be exact, they did more than just make good adaptations or accurate adaptations; they've made good AND accurate adaptations!

Why is it a big deal? Simple. For decades, there had been few attempts by any studio to adapt manga/novel/ren-ai games accurately. The assumption has been that it is too difficult to do, and/or that an exactly replica of the source material wouldn't be any good.

How often have we heard "The anime was alright I guess, but the manga was better"? It's said so often that it is hardly worth a mention; people treated it as something as unavoidable as death and taxes!

Yes, it is true KyoAni lacked pure originality; but that's not what KyoAni is after. Think of a manga/novel/game as a small ceramic statuette; It is a beautiful statuette, but it can fit in a shoe-box and could not be seen by many people.
KyoAni would be like a contractor who is paid to convert the statuette into a massive Colossus made of Bronze, 30 meters tall.

The average anime company would have made a rough approximation of the original statue, as they wouldn't bother to replicate every microscopic detail. They wouldn't even bother to talk to the original maker of the statuette. You would be lucky, sometimes, if the final product even remotely resembled the original.

While KyoAni would have the original artist visit the site of the construction weekly, inquire about the sketches the artist made back before creating the ceramic, and ask if the artist wanted any improvements made to his specifications.

That's what makes KyoAni different; they care about the fact that they are shaping something that artistically belonged to someone-else.

No one else does this; not any other studio. Elsewhere, it happens occasionally for random projects, but KyoAni is the only Studio to do this all the time.
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Old 2008-09-02, 06:05   Link #92
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Wait wait wait wait wait wait.

So Kyoani does 5 series, all adaptations, and suddenly it's a genius studio? As opposed to studios that have made dozens more adaptations (every major studio?), also in the same accurate manner? I believe the only one that gets a lot of flak for its poor adaptations is Gonzo.

And I'm not even mentioning that 1) Kanon had a different ending that mish-mashed everything together, 2) Lucky Star was completely bastardized by Haruhi references, 3) FMP Fumoffu had not too much to do with the original light novels.

I do believe Kyoani is a studio that shows a lot of promise, animation skill and a couple of original ideas (their best idea to date, IMO, was the episode rearranging in Haruhi). However, I don't think it's because they do good adaptations because, frankly, good adaptations are the least of my worries when it comes to anime, and I find it hard to believe that most of the rabid Haruhi fan crowd has read the light novels prior to the series' creation. Same with Kanon, Clannad and Lucky Star. In fact, I doubt most of the rabid Kyonani fan crowd has read/played the original material for any of their series period.
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Last edited by WanderingKnight; 2008-09-02 at 06:17.
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Old 2008-09-02, 06:15   Link #93
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
So Kyoani does 5 series, all adaptations, and suddenly it's a genius studio? As opposed to studios that have made dozens more adaptations, also in the same accurate manner?
Kyoani seems to take most of the will-proably-be-complete-fail ones. (extra points )

Some shows like Soul Eater are kinda hard to do bad. It's like Naruto and Bleach, even with filler they didn't loose much.
FMP is the only one that I think fits that category, with the rest walking on egg shells.

These other studios which you don't give name of, would you trust them with series like Lucky Star or Haruhi?
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Old 2008-09-02, 06:16   Link #94
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I'd say that's pretty sad. Kyoani of all new studios does show tremendous potential, but I'm saddened by their inability to come up with something original (as in not adapted from anything, especially not yet another Key eroge).
So, their only original works have been a couple of not very successful OVAs?
Actually they have only one their work without collab, that isn't based on smth. This is Munto I & II (well, okay, you can also count this like a two projects, as you want). Yes, they have potential, but well, you know, if they failed (actually, this anime is simply not for all, but let's check another variation) - that means nothing. Why ? Because this was their first serious work and they only practiced. It's nearly impossible to became without any experience a great studio. Moreover, adaptation - is a hard work too, don't think that their succes is only because adpatations, no, they are talanted enough. And the proof is near - check all their works after Munto. Everything is a pure win.
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Old 2008-09-02, 06:24   Link #95
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Kyoani seems to take most of the will-proably-be-complete-fail ones. (extra points )
Heh, try GONZO. And with good measure, I say. Kyoani is often received by a horde of "IT'S GONNA BE TEH BESTZOR ANIME IN HISTORY!!".

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Some shows like Soul Eater are kinda hard to do bad. It's like Naruto and Bleach, even with filler they didn't loose much.
I disagree. To date Bones is the only studio that has ever managed to make a purely shounen series that doesn't bore the hell out of me. I believe the four-cour hard limit they impose to themselves for their shounen series has a lot to do with this. There are so many things where Soul Eater can fail--not getting the very peculiar style of the manga right, for example. They made a great choice for the soundtrack, which is something you don't have in manga and that adding it to an adaptation requires a lot of artistic accuracy (by the way, music is officially the thing Kyoani does the worst).

Also, Soul Eater is one hell of a faithful adaptation. Where are the hordes of manga readers praising it like it's the best thing since peanut butter? I've even seen people stating that it's an original work.

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These other studios which you don't give name of, would you trust them with series like Lucky Star or Haruhi?
I really don't understand the question. I haven't read the Lucky Star manga (well, only a little) or the Haruhi light novels. I do agree Kyoani made a wonderful job with Haruhi, since they approached it with originality (which is the complete opposite of doing a faithful adaptation)--but they've done it already. I have no doubts that had Madhouse or Bones grabbed the original material, the outcome would have been very different. I don't know which would I have liked more--but it's irrelevant to the point. My point is that making good adaptations doesn't make you a genius, and it's not what people actually like about Kyoani (what they actually like, I have no idea, but I'm hell sure it's not their adaptation skills).

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And the proof is near - check all their works after Munto. Everything is a pure win.
I... really have different standards for "pure win" than you have. Yes, a Key game adaptation once in a while is fine, but it's far from awe-inspiring. Haruhi was very good, and I'm not willing to doubt that--but I have equally enjoyed (or much more) original material from other studios.
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Old 2008-09-02, 06:33   Link #96
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"Pure win" here means that they were all good enough, that's all.
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Heh, try GONZO
Not a good variant, because a lot of people like to kick GONZO, because this is "simply GONZO", a lot of their works are good, but endings, ehm...
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It's like Naruto and Bleach, even with filler they didn't loose much
I don't even want to comment this...
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These other studios which you don't give name of, would you trust them with series like Lucky Star or Haruhi?
Sure, why not ? But not now, when KyoAny made a perfect adaptations and when they worked with Key's stuff perfect. That's why I don't want to see another Key adaptations from another studio. The same goes for Lucky Star & Haruhi.
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Old 2008-09-02, 06:46   Link #97
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I really don't understand the question. I haven't read the Lucky Star manga (well, only a little) or the Haruhi light novels. I do agree Kyoani made a wonderful job with Haruhi, since they approached it with originality (which is the complete opposite of doing a faithful adaptation)--but they've done it already.
The only episode of Haruhi not based on the novels was scripted by the novel author himself.

If that's not faithful adaptation, I don't know what is.

Faithful adaptation doesn't mean photocopying everything over; it means doing it in a way the original author would approve.

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I haven't read ... the Haruhi light novels.
On that note, you wouldn't consider the Haruhi anime unfaithful as an adaptation if you read the novels; you would be AMAZED at how accurate things can be.
Most of the "Originality" in Haruhi actually came from the novels; you missed that because you haven't read them.
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Old 2008-09-02, 06:49   Link #98
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
My point is that making good adaptations doesn't make you a genius, and it's not what people actually like about Kyoani (what they actually like, I have no idea, but I'm hell sure it's not their adaptation skills).
That's your own opinion. It's the hole process of adapting into animated form things which are otherwise narative writing or a bunch of good looking pictures. A lot of manga has a crap load of thought chains, and honestly in a anime those things if left be are damn boring. Then you have the poor attempts of encorporating manga panty shot scenes into fan service as it's called... but this is besides the point.

Kyoani has proven it can take something and make it into a good anime. I don't care if the source material is the bible or toilet paper for what it's worth. Their job is to make it enjoyable; that's what a good adaptation is.

Soul Eater is copy/paste not an adaptation, same with series like Naruto, Bleach.
What exactly did they adapt? it's nothing but animation of the source.

I don't even bother watching the anime for those shows.
I feel I already saw it whenver I look at it; it's damn boring.
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Old 2008-09-02, 06:51   Link #99
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Sheez, total offtop. Okay, this topic is interesting...
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it means doing it in a way the original author would approve
But who asks author ? Say, how often do you see really spoiled manga/novel/vn-adaptations ? Do as author wanted - is a plenty hard job too.
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same with series like Naruto, Bleach.
Have you read manga ? I don't for further disscusion, but looks like that you forgot that magical word "fillers". And what is a total % of fillers in Bleach, say ?
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What exactly did they adapt?
Manga. They spoiled some moments, but they adpated it peffectly with an orginal atmposhere.
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Old 2008-09-02, 06:55   Link #100
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Taking it as is and hoping for the best isn't exactly adapting. But w/e...
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But who asks author ? Say, how often do you see really spoiled manga/novel/vn-adaptations ? Do as author wanted - is a plenty hard job too.
It is not unheard of for the production company to cooperate with the author of the material.
Although just buying the rights, no questions asked, is probably more common.
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