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Old 2008-08-26, 15:59   Link #61
Kakashi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
Am I the only one who think Ikkaku's and Yumichika's attitude regarding hiding there true form of Zanapakutos a tad irritating . Machismo and Chivalry aside its just not practical also that means we wont get to see them at there full potential unless they are clouded by anonymity
Of course it's irritating. But then, what exactly is practical about Ikkaku and Yumichika? Or Kenpachi and the rest of the 12th division for that matter. Their whole way of life is asking for unecessary bloodshed and a quick passing. Like you said this attitude happens to attract fangirls who probably love the cocky, flamboyant alfa male type. Damn.
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:14   Link #62
TeNMaN
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Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
Of course it's irritating. But then, what exactly is practical about Ikkaku and Yumichika? Or Kenpachi and the rest of the 12th division for that matter. Their whole way of life is asking for unecessary bloodshed and a quick passing. Like you said this attitude happens to attract fangirls who probably love the cocky, flamboyant alfa male type. Damn.
Uh, I think you mean 11th division!

To me, 11th squad is a man's man squad. They are wreaking of being men (for good or bad!!). That is even despite Yumi's metro-sexual ways and Ikkaku's eyeblush LOL!! I definitely think this squad appeals much more to men than women. Fangirls like the pretty boy Byakuya and Hisagi types, not the pure awesomeness of 11th squad.

I am pretty surprised anyone would not think of most 11th squad people as being selfish and rebellious. They all pretty much have done whatever they want since the beginning and have never been the type to do what others want them to do. The whole reason I like them is because they are fun and entertaining. All the other squads are boring compared to them.

Ken-chan FTW!!!!
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Old 2008-08-26, 16:49   Link #63
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Do they? Well shows how clueless I am on the whole issue. I lost interest in Kenpachi after he became hax. I never understood Yumichika's appeal. Ikkaku is fairly funny sometimes at least. But the 11th squad is nothing original, it's like Sparta downsized. Just claiming to be awesome warriors doesn't make them so, especially if they go around getting decapitated. They are tough though, I give them that.
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Old 2008-08-26, 17:32   Link #64
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Originally Posted by Wych View Post
Am I the only one who finds Yumichika's attitude really selfish?

He can hide his ability all he wants in petty little fights like in Soul Society but if he loses this fight it would mean that the pillar would get destroyed and Aizen's plan would start to work. (If that is his main plan, I doubt it is since he would send more important people than fraccion to deal with the pillars but still Yumichika doesn't know this)
Well Yumichika and most of VCs are mere pawns here . If Yumi was indeed defeated I am sure one of Taichos would have stepped in to protect the pillar . What bothered me most was the incident in Arrancar Arc

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Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
member in 11th squad couldn't wield a kidou based Zanpaktou without at least quiet resentment as this way of fighting ruins the fun
But hasnt Yumichica proven himself already I mean even without the kido based zanapkuto he is a competent fighter . He is the 4 th strongest person is 11 div doesnt that say a lot about his combat abilities , keeping in mind he isnt using his zanapkuto to the fullest

I would call Yumichika strength level that of a 3rd seat even without the kido element of his zanapkuto . Regarding his current rank, well a few years back (as we dont know when exactly Iba transferred) the ranking was this way

Ken
Yachiru
Ikakku
Iba
Yumichika
Renji


But I do consider him 3rd seat purely based on power levels . We have to remember he achieved this without his Kido based abilities . If now he reveals the true nature of his zanapkuto will he be looked down by 11 division guess not .He doesnt have to prove himself . If right from the start he was using his kido ability yes he would be frowned upon . But at this stage I dont think so ... the 11 div is not that shallow

Its more so Yumi himself is ashamed of his zanapakuto kido based abilities

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Ikkaku is just lazy and come on, everyone will bug him, just like Renji did.. and I don't think he will rather die than showing his bankai, he also took a risk of getting found out against Leones, he was just lucky that everyone else was busy at that time
That can be neglected when your comrades are in peril . If you remember the Luppi fight both Yumichika and Ikkaku hid there zanapkuto ability letting themselves be captured . As both dont value there life and want to take there resp secrets to the grave it doent matter . But what does matter is that there was a third person there Matsumoto . Luppi was planning to impale Matsumoto with his spikes, even then both of these guys didnt bother with there zanpakutos .

Whether there resp zanpkauto would have changed the course of fight ? ( only Kubo knows) would it have created a opening given a chance for Matsumoto to be saved yes .

This thing kinda gets on my nerves, both balantly disregarding comrade life to hide there secret . We both know and could agree it was merely for plot reasons but how does it reflect on the attitude of Yumichika and Ikkaku . Dont you think its taking machismo a tad bit too far .
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Old 2008-08-26, 17:38   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Kakashi View Post
Do they? Well shows how clueless I am on the whole issue. I lost interest in Kenpachi after he became hax. I never understood Yumichika's appeal. Ikkaku is fairly funny sometimes at least. But the 11th squad is nothing original, it's like Sparta downsized. Just claiming to be awesome warriors doesn't make them so, especially if they go around getting decapitated. They are tough though, I give them that.
Different strokes for different folks! It probably just comes down to each person's personality and who they relate to the best out of all the divisions. For me, it's squad 11.

I don't see how you can be upset for Kenpachi being hax when no one is more hax than Ichigo. He uses the same move pretty much every time and always somehow beats people who are way stronger than him (plotkai!!!!).

Kenpachi is seriously one of my favorite anime characters of all time. Most people only look at his craziness and bloodlust and are instantly turned off by him. I think he is actually one of the most compelling and complex characters in Bleach. He is very philosophical and not just the brute people write him off as. He carries a little pink haired girl on his shoulder for god sakes. The man is clearly all about power for some reason. Maybe it has to do with what happened to the original Yachiru. Maybe he was too weak to save her and that is why he craves power now and only depends on himself (cliche, I know but that is why i want to know the real story). I want more Kenpachi and I want it NOW!!!!!
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Old 2008-08-27, 00:39   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post

As both dont value there life and want to take there resp secrets to the grave it doent matter . But what does matter is that there was a third person there Matsumoto . Luppi was planning to impale Matsumoto with his spikes, even then both of these guys didnt bother with there zanpakutos.
I think by the time Luppi was about to impale Matsumoto none of them could use their zanpakuto because Luppi was constricting them all with the tentacles.

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Originally Posted by TeNMaN View Post
I don't see how you can be upset for Kenpachi being hax when no one is more hax than Ichigo. He uses the same move pretty much every time and always somehow beats people who are way stronger than him (plotkai!!!!).
Man, Kenpachi is the opposite of hax. No fancy tricks, just a straight brawler. Still what people couldn't buy is how Kenpachi easily defeated the no.5 Espada, when Ichigo (who had been given two power upgrades since they last fought) struggled with the no.6. The way that went down could've been handled a little better because it kind of made Ichigo look weak. But his fight against Ulq should set things right again.

Quote:
Kenpachi is seriously one of my favorite anime characters of all time. Most people only look at his craziness and bloodlust and are instantly turned off by him.
There's probably a lot more people turned on by that. I think he's a pretty popular character, though I'm not sure what he's ranking in the character polls now.
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Old 2008-08-27, 03:50   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Man, Kenpachi is the opposite of hax. No fancy tricks, just a straight brawler. Still what people couldn't buy is how Kenpachi easily defeated the no.5 Espada, when Ichigo (who had been given two power upgrades since they last fought) struggled with the no.6. The way that went down could've been handled a little better because it kind of made Ichigo look weak. But his fight against Ulq should set things right again.
Maybe it's because their abilities aren't dictated by their power levels. It's more of a strength + strategy + matchups thing more than just "I'm more powerful than you so I'm gonna win".
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Old 2008-08-27, 05:30   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Man, Kenpachi is the opposite of hax. No fancy tricks, just a straight brawler. Still what people couldn't buy is how Kenpachi easily defeated the no.5 Espada, when Ichigo (who had been given two power upgrades since they last fought) struggled with the no.6. The way that went down could've been handled a little better because it kind of made Ichigo look weak. But his fight against Ulq should set things right again.
I'm not gonna defend Ichigo but he was pretty battered up at the time...And about Ulquiorra i'm hoping he doesnt do to well against him nothing against Ichi but i want Orihime to do something for once
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Old 2008-08-27, 06:50   Link #69
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This fight is pointless and only shows Espada stupidity (with pride and arrogance intermingled).

Let's say that Ulq was given mission to destroy pillars, it would go like this (unless Kubo chose to dumb down his players, e.g. like Ishida in his last fight):
1. send 4 fraction to attack but on one pillar

And that's it... There is no way 1 VC would defeat 4 fraction, let's say 2 block him, the other destroy. If others VC come for the rescue, he then would send weakling arrancar (like in the
beginning) to finish undefended pillars....
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Old 2008-08-27, 07:04   Link #70
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Originally Posted by lucasd View Post
This fight is pointless and only shows Espada stupidity (with pride and arrogance intermingled).
Agreed. What even is the point to these pillar fights? If the espada/traitor captains win, they can just go smash the pillars later anyway. Wiping them out now provides little real advantage.
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Old 2008-08-27, 07:41   Link #71
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
I think by the time Luppi was about to impale Matsumoto none of them could use their zanpakuto because Luppi was constricting them all with the tentacles.
Zanapkutos dont need any movements or swinging to be released . If they had there hands on zanapakuto or were in contact with Zanapkuto they can be released . Restricted movement wont stop anyone from releasing there zanapakutos.
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Old 2008-08-27, 08:30   Link #72
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer View Post
Maybe it's because their abilities aren't dictated by their power levels. It's more of a strength + strategy + matchups thing more than just "I'm more powerful than you so I'm gonna win".
I'd agree if we were talking about fighters like Urahara, Ishida or even Byakuya. But Ichigo and Zaraki are pure brawlers. There's nothing really strategic about the way either fights nor do they rely on getting a good match-up to win. But I'm not complaining, since both their strengths shown to fluctuate wildly based on who their fighting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
Zanapkutos dont need any movements or swinging to be released . If they had there hands on zanapakuto or were in contact with Zanapkuto they can be released . Restricted movement wont stop anyone from releasing there zanapakutos.
If that's true, then Matsumoto should've also released Haineko to escape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasd
This fight is pointless and only shows Espada stupidity (with pride and arrogance intermingled).

Let's say that Ulq was given mission to destroy pillars, it would go like this (unless Kubo chose to dumb down his players, e.g. like Ishida in his last fight):
1. send 4 fraction to attack but on one pillar

And that's it... There is no way 1 VC would defeat 4 fraction, let's say 2 block him, the other destroy. If others VC come for the rescue, he then would send weakling arrancar (like in the
beginning) to finish undefended pillars...
Or better yet, Aizen could've had his top 4 Espada each arrive at one of the pillars, instead of having them all meet with the captains in one place.

It's pretty much as Geta said, the whole 4-pillar subplot is basically very thinly disguised filler made to draw out the story as long as possible and buy time for the vizard to arrive I assume.
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Old 2008-08-27, 09:18   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
If that's true, then Matsumoto should've also released Haineko to escape.
That is true : ) people have gone shikai and bankai with broken Zanapkutos . And Mastumoto doesnt even need any movement to release her Zanapkuto. In the Kira vs Matsumoto fight her zanapkuto is completly restricted . She has gone Shikai after that . Chapter 169

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Old 2008-08-27, 10:00   Link #74
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Er...maybe she either was going to use the element of surprise or realized Haineko was useless against Luppi's regenerative abilities.

Only Yumichika would have been effective.(In my opinion, given what we know) But he rather die than admit his shikai is beautifully awesome and is as delicate as he is. Personally I like that aspect of their characters. It makes me wonder what would it take to make them reveal it...

Something I saw on BA. ...What is Aizen's plan?
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Old 2008-08-27, 10:13   Link #75
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Er...maybe she either was going to use the element of surprise or realized Haineko was useless against Luppi's regenerative abilities.
The question isnt about effectiveness of Haineko but could she release her zanapkuto . The answer to the latter is YES as she had done it in the past against Kira .

I agree with you that her release wouldnt have mad much of a difference

Quote:
Only Yumichika would have been effective.(In my opinion, given what we know)
I do think Ikkaku's Bankai would have made a difference just going by the sheer size of it . it could have broken/shattered luppi's tentacle hold .

But the point isnt about the effectiveness of there resp releases against Luppi . Lets say Ikaku and Yumichika being the stronger of the three had a 'small chance' to rescue Matsumoto before impalement . But they did not take that chance .

When a comrade's life is at stake you go all out take all chances but Yumi and Ikaku decided not to. Its not about saving Matsumoto but making an attempt . Its purely for plot reasons as Kubo wanted to focus more on Urahara and Toshiro . But does it reflect good on Yumi and Ikkaku .
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Old 2008-08-27, 10:34   Link #76
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Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
The question isnt about effectiveness of Haineko but could she release her zanapkuto . The answer to the latter is YES as she had done it in the past against Kira .

I agree with you that her release wouldnt have mad much of a difference



I do think Ikkaku's Bankai would have made a difference just going by the sheer size of it . it could have broken/shattered luppi's tentacle hold .

But the point isnt about the effectiveness of there resp releases against Luppi . Lets say Ikaku and Yumichika being the stronger of the three had a 'small chance' to rescue Matsumoto before impalement . But they did not take that chance .

When a comrade's life is at stake you go all out take all chances but Yumi and Ikaku decided not to. Its not about saving Matsumoto but making an attempt . Its purely for plot reasons as Kubo wanted to focus more on Urahara and Toshiro . But does it reflect good on Yumi and Ikkaku .
*Wince* Ouch!
Yeah Yeah I got all that...

That's why I provided reason why she didn't although she could.I didn't make that clear I guess.

It doesn't reflect well at all. But that's what I like about them. They have twisted code of ethics. I don't think Hitsu and Matsu are important enough to either of them. Comrade or not.

Ikkaku could injure luppi but luppi could just regenerate before Houzukimaru woke up. Ikkaku would have to land some heavy hits or take some for it do so. I think it would go on until Ikkaku's reiatsu ran out. <--If he just defended by twirling it around.
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Old 2008-08-27, 12:45   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Man, Kenpachi is the opposite of hax. No fancy tricks, just a straight brawler. Still what people couldn't buy is how Kenpachi easily defeated the no.5 Espada, when Ichigo (who had been given two power upgrades since they last fought) struggled with the no.6. The way that went down could've been handled a little better because it kind of made Ichigo look weak. But his fight against Ulq should set things right again..
I totally agree that Kenpachi is not hax at all. He is just an extremely skilled and experienced fighter. I just was referring to how so many people call him hax. To me, it has always been very simple why Kenpachi easily beat Nnoitra while Ichigo struggled with Grimmjow - Kenpachi is stronger than Ichigo, plain and simple. He was stronger than him in their first fight but in typical Kenpachi style, screwed around and gave Ichigo a chance to use his hax Zangetsu + hollow powers to draw even. Kenpachi also still held back in that fight with Ichigo as usual. He doesn't want to fight unless he can make it interesting. That is the way he is. (I do understand that Ichigo will surpass Kenpachi and everyone else some day, but right now - Kenpachi is clearly stronger than him and probably the majority of other characters in bleach)


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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
There's probably a lot more people turned on by that. I think he's a pretty popular character, though I'm not sure what he's ranking in the character polls now

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the fact he is crazy and wants to beat the crap out of everyone!! I just love it even more that he is deeper than that. There is more to him than just being a crazy psycho. He is the type of character that actually makes you want to know more about him. Most of the other characters in Bleach are a total snoozefest!!
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Old 2008-08-27, 12:54   Link #78
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I'd agree if we were talking about fighters like Urahara, Ishida or even Byakuya. But Ichigo and Zaraki are pure brawlers. There's nothing really strategic about the way either fights nor do they rely on getting a good match-up to win. But I'm not complaining, since both their strengths shown to fluctuate wildly based on who their fighting..
Actually, Kenpachi has shown he is very good at analyzing his opponent and seeing through their abilities. In some cases, he has made his opponent look very stupid because he has great smarts in battle. So in a way, Kenpachi does know how to strategize when fighting his opponents. Sure, he may not like fighting that way but he has shown he will do it. I think this comes from his tremendous battle experience and is also one of the things that currently separates him from Ichigo.
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Old 2008-08-27, 17:44   Link #79
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Kenpachi is like the Neanderthal of Shinigami. Larger, were presumably generalists that could do more by themselves, they could excel at specialized tasks but failed to cross-discipline. In the end it's thought they couldn't coordinate amongst themselves as well as a group of homosapiens. So if Kenpachi dies, it will probably be against a group of arrancar, since the man always runs off by himself.
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Old 2008-08-27, 23:42   Link #80
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As for Matsumoto, in every fight she has been shown in she has acted weaker then she realy is to throw her oppent off guard. She flat out states to Kira she was not going all out vs him much to his chagrin since he was, Nakim looked to be crushing her untill it was shown that all she was doing was waiting for them to give the ok to drop the limiter and she easly got out of being stomped on by a released Nakim by blocking his foot with her arm with out straining at all before releaseing her limiter. As for the luppi fight the only time she looked remotely worried was when he brought out the spikes but Urahara took them out in seconds after that she seems to have been stalling for time again waiting for her captain to take him out.
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