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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 26 18.71%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 35 25.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 25 17.99%
7 out of 10 : Good 17 12.23%
6 out of 10 : Average 12 8.63%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 7 5.04%
4 out of 10 : Poor 9 6.47%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 1.44%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 6 4.32%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-08-30, 12:43   Link #261
magnuskn
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Hes been doing fine, as far as I am concerned. I would have liked to see a bit more grieving over Michael, though.

Man, the poll is all over the place for this ep...
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Old 2008-08-30, 12:49   Link #262
Danish78
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<Sigh> No more sniper Valk.
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Old 2008-08-30, 12:50   Link #263
magnuskn
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<Sigh> No more sniper Valk.
At least it now could get a certain pink-blond haired pilotess... <cough>

Yeah, yeah, a bit late in the series, I know...
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Old 2008-08-30, 12:52   Link #264
germanturkey
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very average ep. so Ranka's a nutcase now. trying to protect the thing that blew up half the fleet. smooth.

Azure Ether is good, but not as good as Diamond Crevasse.

Average because of a lack of Sheryl.
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Old 2008-08-30, 12:55   Link #265
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Finally, the gg sub downloaded, so some more detailed perspective on this episode.
I disagree for the most part with it.

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So, the military already is against Leon taking over. I really, really cannot see him holding on to his position, as soon as Ozma or Cathy turn up, hell find himself in a cell so fast, he wont be able to blink.
The general questioned the chain of command and Leon's place in it, and that's as far as opposition to him being in charge goes. As for Ozma and Cathy, you'd think they would at least have had a safe-house set up, or had allies or something. Basically where the hell is Bobby in all this?

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My thoughts on how Ranka handled the whole thing is a mish-mash of positive or negative thoughts on her.
Mostly negative if you ask me. This episode was basically her getting over her childhood crush in a mature and dignified manner and you pretty much missed it.

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On one hand, she seems to have catched on that Sheryl loves Alto. And that Alto doesnt see her (Ranka, of course!) as a girlfriend, but as a friend. That has been noticeable during the whole episode. I felt it was a nice finish for her to say "I loved you so much", instead of "I love you so much".
Ranka didn't even consider Sheryl once in this entire episode. As for how Alto see's Ranka, that was only part of it. She obviously considered how he sees alot of things, not just herself. He also doesn't respect her at all, so I wouldn't even consider them friends.

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So, on one hand, she realized what was up and acted on it. That she went off on a journey to the den of the race which just devastated Frontier, to bring her pet back home, is another topic. Its, well, typical Ranka behaviour, though. Running away from her problems, etc..
She's not running away, and she's not simply returning Ai-kun. Obviously you've completely missed the point to her relationship with Ai-kun, as well as her reaction to Vajra dying en masse. She knows there's more to them then she's been told, but she doesn't understand to what extent and is going to find out for herself.

You're in so much denial it's a joke.

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Now, OTOH, she felt the urgent need to confess to him, just before she ran off with two of Altos enemies. And that is after Alto showed her in no uncertain terms that he had no interest whatsoever to bring her pet-Vajra back home. I dont even know if she was cognizant that with her confession shed put a big heaping of guilt on Alto for not choosing her over Sheryl, but I fear she did a real number on him in that regard.
She gave Alto a chance to prove he's not an empty-headed, bigotted actor/pretty boy/dramaqueen, and he blew it with flying colours. He wouldn't even listen to her after she gave Ai-kun a pretty darn good introduction, setting the mood, softening the blow as much as she could. She figured out she was wasting her time and feelings on him, which is a very disappointing and terrible thing to experience. Realising that your idealised someone is hardly what you've build them up to be.

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So, as I said, mixed feelings on her at the moment. My final reaction will depend on how Alto handles it next week, after the initial shock he got right now. If hes all "I gotta rescue Ranka! I gotta rescue Ranka!" for the next episodes, Ill probably sour very quickly on this ( most likely unintended ) mind-f*** she did on him.
Alto's reaction will be typical Alto, until someone tells him to stop literally acting out. Because Alto is an actor and lives to act. He doesn't actually think for himself, he just assumes whatever role is suitable for the moment. I mean, he was raised to be an actor, to fake out and lie to people, with the only exception being the stupid romantic notion of flying in planet bound gas that's not even his own.

No one ever taught him how to think.

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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
If it was against the plan.

Don't you think Grace would've already stopped him?
That's a good point. On the other hand, he seems to have geninue loyalty towards Ranka, and he has acted on his own before. It may be he's acting as he decides and if push comes to shove, he might lobotomize himself. Still, a very good point.
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Old 2008-08-30, 12:56   Link #266
Danish78
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
At least it now could get a certain pink-blond haired pilotess... <cough>

Yeah, yeah, a bit late in the series, I know...
A bit late for a 25 episode series yes.... but if there is a season 2 (we can always hope)
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Old 2008-08-30, 13:00   Link #267
cerrian
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That was an interesting development with Ranka. This episode pretty much set the stage for Ranka and Beara to fully regain their past while they are away from Frontier. When they return, and don't kid yourself if you believe Alto is going to follow them in fold space and resuce Ranka, it'll be to reveal to us the key mysteries of the story. What are the Vajra, what happened to the 117th fleet and it's survivors, and what exactly is Ranka? I expect Ranka and Beara to return no earlier than ep 23 and from there on we get the plot resolution of how the 2 species can survive together.

As for the triangle, this was Ranka's goodbye. Her role in the triangle is pretty much done while she shifts gears and takes on the role of being the Vajra's "little queen". I guess the big question is how does Sheryl's situation get resolved. The only way I see Sheryl surviving her disease is via a Ranka solution otherwise we're in for a bittersweet ending.

There is an unkown factor though and that's Sheryl's earring and the revelation of the nature of Grace's experiment on Sheryl. The earring has been getting a bit of emphasis of late and we're being shown that it's anything but an ordinary earring. With Sheryl on the path for an young death, it is very possible that we may see a Sheryl+earring sacrifice by series end.
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Old 2008-08-30, 13:07   Link #268
magnuskn
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That was an interesting development with Ranka. This episode pretty much set the stage for Ranka and Beara to fully regain their past while they are away from Frontier. When they return, and don't kid yourself if you believe Alto is going to follow them in fold space and resuce Ranka, it'll be to reveal to us the key mysteries of the story. What are the Vajra, what happened to the 117th fleet and it's survivors, and what exactly is Ranka? I expect Ranka and Beara to return no earlier than ep 23 and from there on we get the plot resolution of how the 2 species can survive together.

As for the triangle, this was Ranka's goodbye. Her role in the triangle is pretty much done while she shifts gears and takes on the role of being the Vajra's "little queen". I guess the big question is how does Sheryl's situation get resolved. The only way I see Sheryl surviving her disease is via a Ranka solution otherwise we're in for a bittersweet ending.

There is an unkown factor though and that's Sheryl's earring and the revelation of the nature of Grace's experiment on Sheryl. The earring has been getting a bit of emphasis of late and we're being shown that it's anything but an ordinary earring. With Sheryl on the path for an young death, it is very possible that we may see a Sheryl+earring sacrifice by series end.
I dont think well get a bittersweet ending. Sheryl will be rescued either by science or Rankas blood ( Shes gotta DRINK IT, I tell ya. ).

The earring is there to emphasize the connection between Sheryl and Mao. As the crystals are made out of fold quartz, it also means the earring is connected to the Vajra. The details still escape us, but well probably get, together with Rankas and Breras revelations about their past, another revelation about how exactly Sheryl is connected to the 117th and Mao Nome.

Whats "big sister" mean in Japanese?
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Old 2008-08-30, 13:12   Link #269
Danish78
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Originally Posted by cerrian View Post

There is an unkown factor though and that's Sheryl's earring and the revelation of the nature of Grace's experiment on Sheryl. The earring has been getting a bit of emphasis of late and we're being shown that it's anything but an ordinary earring. With Sheryl on the path for an young death, it is very possible that we may see a Sheryl+earring sacrifice by series end.
Ouch! I hope not (crosses fingers)
Anyway, nice take on the situation. Thanks.
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Old 2008-08-30, 13:39   Link #270
SoldierOfDarkness
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She's not running away, and she's not simply returning Ai-kun. Obviously you've completely missed the point to her relationship with Ai-kun, as well as her reaction to Vajra dying en masse. She knows there's more to them then she's been told, but she doesn't understand to what extent and is going to find out for herself.
There's something radically different with Ai-Kun.

If I'm looking at this right the Vajra insects hatched from cocoons (After going through that larval stage).

Ai-Kun just went straight into the insect stage himself but seemed to have developed a lot slower. He's been there since what? Episode 8ish? That and he displays a more "sentient" mind compared to the other Vajra which seem to swing depending on how Ranka feels. They even stated that the minds they dissected there's no way the brain can handle such a large body either.

Quote:
She gave Alto a chance to prove he's not an empty-headed, bigotted actor/pretty boy/dramaqueen, and he blew it with flying colours. He wouldn't even listen to her after she gave Ai-kun a pretty darn good introduction, setting the mood, softening the blow as much as she could. She figured out she was wasting her time and feelings on him, which is a very disappointing and terrible thing to experience. Realising that your idealised someone is hardly what you've build them up to be.
Given what's happened can you blame him? The Vajra have literally costed them so many lives and resources it's not even funny. Ranka's going to have to bring out a strong case to pin on Grace and Leon if she intends to clear them innocent.
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Old 2008-08-30, 13:51   Link #271
Wesley84
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There's something radically different with Ai-Kun.

If I'm looking at this right the Vajra insects hatched from cocoons (After going through that larval stage).

Ai-Kun just went straight into the insect stage himself but seemed to have developed a lot slower. He's been there since what? Episode 8ish? That and he displays a more "sentient" mind compared to the other Vajra which seem to swing depending on how Ranka feels. They even stated that the minds they dissected there's no way the brain can handle such a large body either.
He's in his second larval stage. He is not a second stage Vajra. There is no reason to assume he's actually all that special, beyond Ranka raising him. He'll hopefully be a Victor before series end.

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Given what's happened can you blame him? The Vajra have literally costed them so many lives and resources it's not even funny. Ranka's going to have to bring out a strong case to pin on Grace and Leon if she intends to clear them innocent.
He wouldn't even listen to her. There's no reason at all to think his reaction would have been any different at all considering recent events. He's hated the things since the first episode.

As for clearing them, she might not have to. It may be possible to convince them to leave Frontier alone. Well, maybe not, but she's on a personal fact finding mission. She'll find out their true nature for herself, and take it from there come what may.
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Old 2008-08-30, 14:02   Link #272
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
He's in his second larval stage. He is not a second stage Vajra. There is no reason to assume he's actually all that special, beyond Ranka raising him. He'll hopefully be a Victor before series end.
I dunno because even those second stage larval were running around mindlessly and didn't seem to evolve the way he did and did it much faster.

That and out of all the other Vajra he's the one that ventured out to see Ranka.

Even when Ranka was singing he apparently didn't go out to the slaughterhouse where the rest of the Vajra were killed. He avoided all of them. He's the one closest to Ranka, he would've defintely be there when she's singing.
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Old 2008-08-30, 14:10   Link #273
Wesley84
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I dunno because even those second stage larval were running around mindlessly and didn't seem to evolve the way he did and did it much faster.

That and out of all the other Vajra he's the one that ventured out to see Ranka.

Even when Ranka was singing he apparently didn't go out to the slaughterhouse where the rest of the Vajra were killed. He avoided all of them. He's the one closest to Ranka, he would've defintely be there when she's singing.
They weren't second stage larva. They were past the larval stage.

As for not going out to Island 3, he didn't go simply because he couldn't follow her. He was just a baby afterall.
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Old 2008-08-30, 14:21   Link #274
Jerseykid
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Hes been doing fine, as far as I am concerned. I would have liked to see a bit more grieving over Michael, though.

Man, the poll is all over the place for this ep...
He was amazing for the first half now he's just a guy in the background. Saving nothing, letting everything happen before him, outclassed by bera. He better be kicking it up a notch if he still wants to be considered the lead in my book.
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Old 2008-08-30, 14:38   Link #275
Traece
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I have to say I gave this episode a ten...

At this point I'm ecstatic that Ranka left and pulled out of the race. However, I'm amazed that Alto stood by her in the end considering he lost his best friend and there were so many casualties, and Ranka seems to be moving on and taking sides with the Vajra at this point in time. She chooses a good time to switch sides and yet Alto still manages to think of her as a friend even though in a way her existence was probably the catalyst for everything that has happened thus far.

But oh well. I miss Ai-kun being tiny and green and cute. It's too bad really.

As for the Vajra intelligence vs Ai-kun that is very curious. It would be my guess that because Ranka is sunch a young Queen and because she is also half-Vajra, the Vajra that grow and spend time around her become more and more intelligent. I think when Vajra grow in the presence of a Queen Vajra, they have a natural instinct to follow the orders and intentions of that same Queen Vajra. Sort of like an Alpha Male (well, female..) thing I suppose you could say. That's my take on it, and it makes sense to me perfectly.

Either that or Vajra can be trained as pets.
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Old 2008-08-30, 14:42   Link #276
forgottendiary
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So I just finished watching it like a minute or so ago...andIforgotwhathappened. Meh, ionno, I'm probably also wanting a bit more Michel-related grievance.

What stood out for me the most though was Klan's sequence at the beginning. I had goosebumps all over my arms. @_@
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Old 2008-08-30, 14:52   Link #277
Wesley84
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I have to say I gave this episode a ten...

At this point I'm ecstatic that Ranka left and pulled out of the race. However, I'm amazed that Alto stood by her in the end considering he lost his best friend and there were so many casualties, and Ranka seems to be moving on and taking sides with the Vajra at this point in time. She chooses a good time to switch sides and yet Alto still manages to think of her as a friend even though in a way her existence was probably the catalyst for everything that has happened thus far.
She didn't pull out of the race. She won by default for realising it was a rigged game to begin with. And Alto wasn't standing by her so much as...screaming her name alot and being really confused and dramatic. She also didn't "choose sides". She's seeing why there are sides to begin with. Something a braindead bigot like Alto wasn't even able to consider.

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But oh well. I miss Ai-kun being tiny and green and cute. It's too bad really.
I liked it. He's obviously still Ai-kun, and I liked the way he fetched the paper airplane for Ranka. You don't have to be cute to be good you know?

Quote:
As for the Vajra intelligence vs Ai-kun that is very curious. It would be my guess that because Ranka is sunch a young Queen and because she is also half-Vajra, the Vajra that grow and spend time around her become more and more intelligent. I think when Vajra grow in the presence of a Queen Vajra, they have a natural instinct to follow the orders and intentions of that same Queen Vajra. Sort of like an Alpha Male (well, female..) thing I suppose you could say. That's my take on it, and it makes sense to me perfectly.
She's not half-Vajra. I doubt there's alpha anything at work here. The whole "Queen" honorific shouldn't be taken as literal, beyond Vajra and Ranka sharing some kind of empathy for one another. I do think there's a real possibility that Ai-kun has learned from spending time with Ranka though.
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Old 2008-08-30, 15:06   Link #278
lousylaus
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Which is why Grace will obviously want Frontier to follow Ranka...

I for one thought it was a good idea for Ranka to leave. This way she can do some soul searching and find her true self...
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Originally Posted by Elehayym View Post
I did like how Ranka acted in this episode though, finally she stopped depending on Alto and did what she thought is right... she specifically said she will sing for everyone when she accepted to attract the Vajra, and mainly, she did give up on Alto-kun and defended her ideas about Vajra even against his opinion... that's a big step forward for her imho and I don't really think she deserves to be criticized so much this time ^^;
Intelligent posts in a Macross thread? And here I thought it was impossible with all the Sheryl fans here.

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Originally Posted by TwilightHack View Post
I think Ai-kun has another evolutionary step or two... but I agree, compared to the other Vajra it is very intelligent.
I think Ai-kun is now my favorite character from the show. Cute how he was holding the paper plane

Spoiler for ep. 21:




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Originally Posted by nanatsusaya View Post
In this ep Ranka was like choosing the Vajra over human She knew that people on Frontier really needed her and her voice could save them, yet she decide to side with their killers It's like she's not human anymore (well she isn't technically human but sure acts like one )
With the way things were going, Ranka has a better chance of helping by going with the Vajra than staying and continue in the never ending cycle of Vajra attacks. Now atleast she'll go right to the source and have a chance of changing things big time. Especially if she ends up being a queen there.

And didn't people wanted a more mature Ranka? I think her going the Vajra route and finally making her own choices is a big step toward that. She already looked more mature at the end of this episode than she ever had before. Hopefully, they'll draw her like that from now on. I don't think they can return into drawing her like a little girl now that she's with the Vajra.

Spoiler for ep. 21 Ranka:
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Old 2008-08-30, 15:11   Link #279
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I agree. Ranka did look the most mature I've seen her yet, at the end of the episode. However before the Griffith Observatory scene, she still looked 12. At least they're starting the transition in it's own way.

Ai-kun is a favorite of mine in this show as well. The fact that he didn't destroy the paper airplane this time, and held it gently, then comforted Ranka, he better survive.
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Old 2008-08-30, 16:17   Link #280
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Or if Ai-kun died saving Alto from another Vajra. My oh my.
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