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Old 2008-08-28, 20:42   Link #21
Darklord_bg
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Hmm, I've got mixed feelings about the recent few chapters.

One one side, I am happy that those fights finished fast, in about 1-1.5 chapters, since I still remember the horror of the Szayel Apporo fight which took several months.

On the other hand, in the last two fights, both Yumichika and Kira didn't show anything new -- no bankai, no new ability, no creative way to win. It's just the same old same old abilities they displayed waay back in the SS arc. In that aspect I feel like the recent few chapters were totally useless - wasted space - filler material.
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Old 2008-08-28, 20:55   Link #22
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Originally Posted by Langus View Post
Bring on the death (or at the very least the defeat of a major character) so we can remain emotionally invested in this manga please! I will be thoroughly satisfied if Mr. 69 gets his ass handed to him next week.
I don't think Mr.69 qualifies as a major character, unfortunately. He has also yet to show any of his abilities, and was also featured in the flashbacks (as well as Nanao, from which we -also- lack a shikai). I think we can fully expect both some Shuhei and Nanao fairly soon. Kensei and the others are on their way, after all. Happy Returns? Perhaps.

Law no. 25 of Shounen: You can't kill main characters until you see their trump card.

Out of all the vice-captains, we haven't see the shikai's of: Yachiru, Shuhei, Nanao and Nemu (Though I'm not sure she even has one... considering she's displayed abnormal taijutsu most of the time)

I don't think those characters are about to die anytime soon. For now, they're too unimportant.

Law no. 34 of Shounen: A character can't die unless it has a significant impact on the main character or cast.
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Old 2008-08-28, 21:06   Link #23
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I'm not really a fan of Naruto, but I will say this - whoever created Naruto is NOT afraid to kill off main crucial characters who have up until that point played an integral role in the plot. THIS is what Bleach is lacking. Kubo's biggest weakness as a writer is his fear of destroying any of his characters. There needs to be loss. As readers we need to know that there's a chance things won't turn out okay. It's what keeps us on the edge of our seats and coming back week after week. Who the hell wants to waste their time reading a predictable manga anyway? The flashback chapters were great - especially the details about Gin! - but these VC fights are weak. Bring on the death (or at the very least the defeat of a major character) so we can remain emotionally invested in this manga please! I will be thoroughly satisfied if Mr. 69 gets his ass handed to him next week.
I totally agree with you. Right now in Bleach there are so many unnecessary characters that could be killed off without so much as a after thought that I don't know why Kubo hasn't already done it.

How I see it the Fox Captain should have been killed back in the Soul Society Arc when Aizen used that secret technique on him. Even though I like Chad he could've died any of those 1,000 times he was pawned by character A, B, or C. Hell Kubo's set up Rukia's death so many times and not done it there isn't any suspense left because you know she's going to survive just like Chad. I mean Rukia was stabbed in the chest by Grimmjaw didn't die, stabbed in the chest by Arrancar #9 didn't die, and stabbed in the chest by Aizen.
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Old 2008-08-28, 21:14   Link #24
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part of it is because he adores his characters so much, another part is that the fangirls would cut off his body parts if he killed off their favorite character. I think kira and mr.69, although rather pointless to the plot at this point, are rather popular.
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Old 2008-08-29, 00:48   Link #25
Darklord_bg
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I totally agree with you guys on the issue of character deaths. Here is a list of characters I believe should have died, which would make the manga much more dramatic.

1). Momo - She hasn't done anything useful (actually anything) since she recovered, and her death at the hands of the one who she respected the most would have a huge emotional impact.

2). Hitsugaya - (hides from mobs of screaming fans) - after revealing his bankai he hasn't shown anything new either. They could have easily replaced his role with that of another captain, who hasn't gotten much screen time so far.

3). Byakuya - Having him die while protecting Rukia just hours after he tried to kill her would have a huge dramatic impact. He could have told her his story about his wife as his last words, which would make the story much more powerful. Besides, he also revealed his bankai and hasn't shown anything new ever since.

4). Ikakku - This would have been a really epic death, getting a double KO with Arrancar no. 12 just after revealing his bankai. It would remain in our memories forever. I'm not really looking forward to his incoming fight.

There are some others, which I do not feel so strongly about, like Rukia and Chad - they could have died, but it wouldn't have such a big impact as those four listed above, so I don't really care about them that much.

Anyways, the cast is too big and they should get rid of some characters to make room to develop some of the others. Some of the captains have barely gotten any screen time so far, while other characters like Hitsugaya, Byakuya and Ikkaku are being constantly reused.

Don't get me wrong, I like those characters, but I think their deaths will serve a better purpose for the story.
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Old 2008-08-29, 01:08   Link #26
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is it just me or does the pairings in these fights seem a little to convenient i mean yumi's got someone that hides his ability from sight so he can use it and kira has a bird guy with steel feathers which is the exact match for his zanpakuto....i can only image whats gonna happen with ikkaku and hisagi's fights
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Old 2008-08-29, 01:39   Link #27
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Can we just get this miniarc over with please? I think we deserve to see a big showdown between the top three espada and Soul society after that whole Szayel ordeal.
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Old 2008-08-29, 02:28   Link #28
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it ain't even funny, apart from ikkaku it looked as if the other 3 are capable of achieving bankai anytime soon. Heck even rukia looked a captain material now, this is not because they are overpowered (they are vice-captains afterall), it shows how lame the arrancers have become.
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Old 2008-08-29, 02:30   Link #29
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Y'know i never really liked Kira that much, but for some reason i thought the last page of this chapter was pretty badass... just the way he is standing over the guy with his sword so neatly angled around the guy's neck... i thought it might be used for head chopping

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Originally Posted by SamuraiX View Post
Hell Kubo's set up Rukia's death so many times and not done it there isn't any suspense left because you know she's going to survive just like Chad. I mean Rukia was stabbed in the chest by Grimmjaw didn't die, stabbed in the chest by Arrancar #9 didn't die, and stabbed in the chest by Aizen.
You could probably toss in the fact that the last time she was literally DECLARED DEAD... now that's a real kicker as it makes it so we can no longer believe Kubo when he outright says that a character died; hell now all he has to do is set up a character to get brought back to the dead and we will loose all hope of being able to be sure a character is dead

Quote:
1). Momo - She hasn't done anything useful (actually anything) since she recovered, and her death at the hands of the one who she respected the most would have a huge emotional impact.
If the emotional impact comes from her getting killed by the man she adored, then i doubt the impact would have been much greater than what we got... either way its a heavy betrayal... letting her live only allows us to actually see the misery she has been put into

Quote:
2). Hitsugaya - (hides from mobs of screaming fans) - after revealing his bankai he hasn't shown anything new either. They could have easily replaced his role with that of another captain, who hasn't gotten much screen time so far.
bah, his death would seriously lack emotional impact... only one who would get seriously emotional over him would be Momo and she is a very minor character; might get some out of masumoto aswell, but the impact on the actual MAIN characters would have been minimal at best

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Originally Posted by Endrance View Post
is it just me or does the pairings in these fights seem a little to convenient i mean yumi's got someone that hides his ability from sight so he can use it and kira has a bird guy with steel feathers which is the exact match for his zanpakuto....i can only image whats gonna happen with ikkaku and hisagi's fights
Well i wouldn't call Kira's convenient... i mean the guy was a long distance fighter which is a bad match for Kira as he pointed out... the steel wings were not really that big of a deal; defeat by Kira would be inevitable for most any enemy due to the nature of his sword... Even if the guy just had ordinary arms, it would have only taken Kira a couple more hits to big the guy to his knees... Only ones who wouldn't be are any one who can avoid his sword completly, or those like Masumoto or Bakuya who use weapons that you can't really strike against...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklord_bg
On the other hand, in the last two fights, both Yumichika and Kira didn't show anything new -- no bankai, no new ability, no creative way to win. It's just the same old same old abilities they displayed waay back in the SS arc. In that aspect I feel like the recent few chapters were totally useless - wasted space - filler material.
Well we did see Yukichika's sword in full action this time... last time he used it, we got cut off and didn't actually see it in action... can agree on Kira; but we do have mr.69's shikai to look foward too... though no surprises out of Ikkaku probably
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Old 2008-08-29, 02:54   Link #30
Darklord_bg
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
If the emotional impact comes from her getting killed by the man she adored, then i doubt the impact would have been much greater than what we got... either way its a heavy betrayal... letting her live only allows us to actually see the misery she has been put into
Well, any time a major character dies (you can kind of call her major, since she did have quite a bit of screen time in SS) there is a big emotional impact on the readers, since it shows that the author has the guts to kill off main characters. I'm just saying that keeping her alive is completely useless, since she hasn't done anything since that incident. Potentially they could develop her character into becoming a more mature and realistic, even cynical person due to the betrayal, but the first words out of her mouth were again words of concern for "Aizen-sama" - the man who used her and cast her aside like a piece of trash. Man, that was really pathetic from her...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx
bah, his death would seriously lack emotional impact... only one who would get seriously emotional over him would be Momo and she is a very minor character; might get some out of masumoto aswell, but the impact on the actual MAIN characters would have been minimal at best
Again, the emotional impact would be on the viewers, not so much on the characters in the show. Besides, he is a really boring character. He was really fun and interesting in the SS arc with his whole investigation, but since Aizen sliced him, he kind of lost his usefulness. Everything he's done since then has been completely generic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx
Well we did see Yukichika's sword in full action this time... last time he used it, we got cut off and didn't actually see it in action... can agree on Kira; but we do have mr.69's shikai to look foward too... though no surprises out of Ikkaku probably
Well, we did see flowers bloom, but still, we only learned what we already knew a long time ago - that his sword is a kido-type that can suck the enemy's spiritual power. Also, after seeing Ikkaku's impressive performance in the Arrancar arc, I doubt that anything he has to show us can top that.
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Old 2008-08-29, 03:06   Link #31
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i thought this was supposed to be full colour? >__>
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Old 2008-08-29, 03:40   Link #32
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not a bad chapter in my opinion, though it lacked surprise, we all knew how kira was going to win... but i have to admit i had the blind hope that he was going to do somethign completely unexpected. i could do without the whole speach about the squad and their emo philosophy, for some reason the way kira was talking (or i was reading) sounded like it was mojo jojo talking (maybe i need some sleep ) what i do think is cool however is that last page where kira is going to behead the bird arrancar.

anywyas still waiting for 69 kid, which i still can't remeber his name.
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Old 2008-08-29, 03:52   Link #33
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Why the arrancar cut themselves to make themselves stronger?! I thought Ulquiorra was the emocar (emo arrancar)
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Old 2008-08-29, 04:43   Link #34
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A decent chapter, glad these are rather quick fights though. I'm not so hung up on deaths in stories anymore. Yeah, there some emotional attachment to a character, but deaths don't serve much purpose except to shock the audience. Something you didn't see coming is generally how a writer puts it in, a cliffhanger or a wtf moment. On the other hand, Bleach suffers from the same problem DBZ did - moments of sacrifice don't hold much weight because you know they'll be back. At the very least, put someone out of commission for a while with a serious injury, y'know?

I like the little bits of info that get added into these chapters, the division info is interesting and the Pendulum arc was great. I think what bothers me about Bleach is that the villains are interesting, but the main characters are not. Outside of the occasional "awesome!" moment like Ikakku busting out his bankai, the characters haven't changed much, if at all, from the SS arc. Ichigo got a mask? Woohoo. Zaraki learned to use two hands? *twirls finger*

The Vizard twist could have provided something different but so far nothing has really come of it. I'm hoping we get to see how they "repay" Aizen for his "gift".
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Old 2008-08-29, 07:24   Link #35
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Originally Posted by SamuraiX View Post
I totally agree with you. Right now in Bleach there are so many unnecessary characters that could be killed off without so much as a after thought that I don't know why Kubo hasn't already done it.

How I see it the Fox Captain should have been killed back in the Soul Society Arc when Aizen used that secret technique on him. Even though I like Chad he could've died any of those 1,000 times he was pawned by character A, B, or C. Hell Kubo's set up Rukia's death so many times and not done it there isn't any suspense left because you know she's going to survive just like Chad. I mean Rukia was stabbed in the chest by Grimmjaw didn't die, stabbed in the chest by Arrancar #9 didn't die, and stabbed in the chest by Aizen.
I don't really stomach the idea of Rukia or Chad dying too well, but Kubo could very well have killed off Komamura, and I wouldn't have cared, and it would have gotten the point across: there are ways for the good guys to die, too.

AND it would have made Aizen look lots cooler, too. I mean: He used no incantation, and the spell didn't even reach a third of its power, yet a CAPTAIN was killed? WOW. That would have been pretty cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklord_bg
1). Momo - She hasn't done anything useful (actually anything) since she recovered, and her death at the hands of the one who she respected the most would have a huge emotional impact. Agree. She is a useless character as far as I can see, anyway: However you look at it, she was set up to simply be a tragedy left behind by Aizen. So her death would have gotte it across much more effectively

2). Hitsugaya - (hides from mobs of screaming fans) - after revealing his bankai he hasn't shown anything new either. They could have easily replaced his role with that of another captain, who hasn't gotten much screen time so far. Disagree (Even though he isn't all that string, he does represent a certain amount of youthful justice in the series. It would remove that link to the younger watchers...)

3). Byakuya - Having him die while protecting Rukia just hours after he tried to kill her would have a huge dramatic impact. He could have told her his story about his wife as his last words, which would make the story much more powerful. Besides, he also revealed his bankai and hasn't shown anything new ever since. Disagree. I mean, point taken, and everything, but...killing Byakuya, man? Naaaww

4). Ikakku - This would have been a really epic death, getting a double KO with Arrancar no. 12 just after revealing his bankai. It would remain in our memories forever. I'm not really looking forward to his incoming fight.
Agree. Never found him to be that great, anyway. Good riddance, kinda. And thank god he didn't accept the post as Captain. I would have lost a lot of awe of the Captaincy if he was the new standard for Soul Soc. Shinigami...
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not a bad chapter in my opinion, though it lacked surprise, we all knew how kira was going to win... but i have to admit i had the blind hope that he was going to do somethign completely unexpected. i could do without the whole speach about the squad and their emo philosophy, for some reason the way kira was talking (or i was reading) sounded like it was mojo jojo talking (maybe i need some sleep ) what i do think is cool however is that last page where kira is going to behead the bird arrancar.

anywyas still waiting for 69 kid, which i still can't remeber his name.
Hey Hey Hey: Don't get too excited: We all know how it goes in Bleach: Kubo isn't very good when it comes to twists in battles. So instead of using this extra cool opportunity to make Kira's character shine and look uber-awesome, actually, we all know that next chapter, the Birdman is actually gonna Sonido out just in time, and then the chapter will end with Kira at a disadvantage or something like that.

But we all know that Birdman AINT dead next chapter. Or at least if he dies, it won't be by something SERIOUS and malignant, that would boost Kira's character, like a cold-hearted beheading. Oh no. In fact, What I see, is Kira letting him go, spouting something about the philosophy of the 3rd division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace
The Vizard twist could have provided something different but so far nothing has really come of it. I'm hoping we get to see how they "repay" Aizen for his "gift".
We all know the Vizard have a really good chance of reviving the whole series...but we also know that it will probably be wasted, anyway...so...
But I'm really interested in Seeing Shinji... He must be really cool.
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Then they came for me!
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Old 2008-08-29, 08:18   Link #36
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A decent chapter, glad these are rather quick fights though. I'm not so hung up on deaths in stories anymore. Yeah, there some emotional attachment to a character, but deaths don't serve much purpose except to shock the audience. Something you didn't see coming is generally how a writer puts it in, a cliffhanger or a wtf moment. On the other hand, Bleach suffers from the same problem DBZ did - moments of sacrifice don't hold much weight because you know they'll be back. At the very least, put someone out of commission for a while with a serious injury, y'know?

I like the little bits of info that get added into these chapters, the division info is interesting and the Pendulum arc was great. I think what bothers me about Bleach is that the villains are interesting, but the main characters are not. Outside of the occasional "awesome!" moment like Ikakku busting out his bankai, the characters haven't changed much, if at all, from the SS arc. Ichigo got a mask? Woohoo. Zaraki learned to use two hands? *twirls finger*

The Vizard twist could have provided something different but so far nothing has really come of it. I'm hoping we get to see how they "repay" Aizen for his "gift".
QFT

I found Grimmjaw to be more interesting than the main character Ichigo and all of his buddies.
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Old 2008-08-29, 08:19   Link #37
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Quote:
You know what Bleach lacks most? It lacks the type of super powerful characters who REMAIN a mystery. The manga chapters 'End of Hypnosis' when Aizen was unmasked sorta fixed that up, but then the espada came and messed everything up. Aizen came off as the "Wow, the super-villain we've been waiting for. Oh my God, I'm freaking out about how COOl and MYSTERIOUS he is!!".
I think you are forgetting a lot of people.
mysterious, cool, strong ?

obviously: Kurosaki Isshin, Ishida Ryuuken, Urahara Kisuke

what about WHOLE zero division ? including former hikifune taichou and "the king"

and something, everybody forgot I think: when aizen, ichimaru and tousen were rescued by negacion and the hollows, there was a very big one, like an eye behind them...

Also don't forget all the Vaizards which were former Captains...

I'm very excited about all of these...


And a little on-topic: well slicing the opponents head off... that was hard =>
but of course evey word Kira said about war is true, so
kinda epic, even though I don't like him that much... but nice handling of spells
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Old 2008-08-29, 08:34   Link #38
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OkayI just read the Chapter...I ususally read them on Sundays, but I couldn't resist.

Wow...Kira looked really awesome...

This is the time he could really shine and show super development into a key, and truly anticipated character... Please Kubo-sensei...let him shine...

Cos I mean, think about it: He can use a lvl 58 Kidou without the incantation. He's got the bad-ass-itude totally down. He's quiet, strong, and has got a cool, ontop-of-things exterior...

All he needs now is simply to develop, and show strength near to about Byakuya or so, and have a really awesome Bankai, like a Gravity Dimension that he has full control over, or something, and last but not least...Captaincy...

Tada... And there we will have a cool Kira. Say what: What if he not only defeats The Birdman, but also becomes a crucial part of the fight against Aizen / espada.

That would actually be a nice plot twist. A totally unexpect character blooms into an awesome captain...
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Old 2008-08-29, 09:04   Link #39
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This chapter wasn't as boring as I thought. It was definitely more entertaining than Yumichika's fight, but also short and sweet and I liked how Kira used his sword at the end. My opinion of him has changed a little for the better. I've still had enough of him to last though.

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Originally Posted by Darklord_bg View Post
Well, any time a major character dies (you can kind of call her major, since she did have quite a bit of screen time in SS) there is a big emotional impact on the readers, since it shows that the author has the guts to kill off main characters. I'm just saying that keeping her alive is completely useless, since she hasn't done anything since that incident. Potentially they could develop her character into becoming a more mature and realistic, even cynical person due to the betrayal, but the first words out of her mouth were again words of concern for "Aizen-sama" - the man who used her and cast her aside like a piece of trash. Man, that was really pathetic from her...
I agree that Hinamori's not worth much, but the problem that comes from killing her is Hitsugaya's reaction. If Aizen killed her, it would have such a huge impact on Hitsu that to the readers, it might seem like his right to kill Aizen. But as the main hero, it's also Ichigo's duty to eventually defeat Aizen.

I think a big part of the reason Momo was spared was that Kubo didn't want the issue of whether Hitsu deserves revenge or Ichigo carries out his heroic duty. It's probably why he holds off on killing other characters as well, because then he has to address the consequences of their deaths, which may interfere with the story he wants to tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holypanl
This is the time he could really shine and show super development into a key, and truly anticipated character... Please Kubo-sensei...let him shine...
I don't think so. I think this was just a quick fight to show he's a competent fighter. He might have a few other moments, but I'm thinking the probably the only other time we'll get to see him in action is against Gin (because Kira has abandonment issues) and then he's bound to lose. I mean, it's Gin
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Old 2008-08-29, 09:14   Link #40
Langus
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Personally I'd like to see the following characters die for emotional impact and the utter you're not expecting it factor.

Gin (preferably at Matsumoto's hand) - because it'd be a great opportunity to reveal more about his character and their relationship, possibly redeem him, before he gets killed off - eliminating one of the baddies at the same time. You'd just start thinking he's not such a bad guy so the reader would feel the maximum emotional let down to see him go.

Ukitake - Simply because he's one of the nice ones. No one would expect him to go. He's weak already and I think it would definitely contribute to a major shock factor. Plus you'd have the aftermath of seeing Shinsui fucking lose it when he realizes his best friend is dead.

Isshin Kurosaki - Yes, a bit of a shocker I know. Ichigo's already lost one parent so think of the possibilities of what could happen if he lost his father too. He'd have to step up/grow up to take care of his sisters and it could leave a lot of room for character development.

Urahara or Yoruichi - They're both kind of outsiders. Urahara's death could be a way for him to redeem himself in the eyes of Soul Society. Yoruichi's death would work because it would be completely unexpected. In the same vein, the death of Soi Fon could work out nice too. The death of any one of these characters creates the interesting potential for relationship development. Just think of how a scene could look during the last words shared between Urahara and Yoruichi - what might be said? Or for that matter, Yoruichi and Soi Fon. I, for one, think it'd be amazing.

But yeah, Kubo really needs to clean house. He has far too many characters to work with right now. It's impossible to develop them all the way they should be at this rate. Or he could, it'd just take 10 years for this war to be finished. He's really been playing up this whole 'war is bad' theme too (especially with this week's chapter) - so what a better way to emphasize that theme and make it really hit home by killing off some of the fan favoured main characters? War doesn't just kill the bad guys, the good ones get sacrificed too.
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