AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Movies, OVAs/OADs, and Specials

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-09-06, 17:10   Link #61
TigerII
Pilot in Training
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Earth
Spoiler for Sub Machine Pistol:



I love the Pah-Pah-Sha
TigerII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-06, 22:55   Link #62
DangerMouse
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Very nice shots in that magazine, I keep loving the design work. The backround art looks nice in those screenshots, like in the nice shot of the russian girl running towards the buildings. Like the "poster" shot in the last page. Also, the design of the other kid from her squad looks good.

I'm quite curious about the crater-like area with the castle/town in it.

Now we just need a date when this is coming
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-09, 08:14   Link #63
Shinndou
魂を踊らすように
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Turin, Italy
Age: 29
Whoa, Studio 4C is on a roll? Last year it was Tekkon Kinkreet, this year it's DMC and now this. I'm really excited for this movie, and I'm also curious to see how the japanese/russian partnership will work (well they've already got plenty of experience when it comes to collaborating and working with foreigners).
Shinndou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-09, 11:08   Link #64
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I'm a lot more encouraged by the fact that this project seems to be written and produced by Russians than if it were an entirely Japanese work. This makes it a lot more likely to avoid the various peccadillos that plague many other World War II-era and pseudo-World War II anime works (see Strike Witches, Zipang, the Cockpit, Valkyria Chronicles and so forth).

From the promotional material, I'd have preferred it if they showed Soviet cavalry rather than Teutonic Knights, but it looks promising so far. I'd appreciate it even more if it actually features a major battle on the Eastern Front (especially if it isn't Stalingrad).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
I love the Pah-Pah-Sha
Ditto. It's hard to think of a more iconic infantry weapon for World War II, and it's a shame that we don't see more of it in shows and movies of that era (even if its lack isn't particularly surprising).
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-09, 12:21   Link #65
TigerII
Pilot in Training
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Earth
Stalingrad itself is Cliche now, lol. Movies, games, etc.

I mean there was Kharkov, Leningrad, Kiev, Warsaw, Bucharest, Sevastopol, etc.


Also, I don't know why, but I want to see a Katyusha truck.

4tran, did you mean the Cossacks?


The Eastern front was the most brutal of the European theaters and could even rival the Second Sino-Japanese war(The Chinese theater of WWII).

The Pacific War was brutal, but not in the since of savage combat and more into the fact the Americans shot everything that moved and sometimes didn't move.


I also agree, when WWII shows are made by Japanese studio it does have a bias, but I guess the same can be said for Western versions of wars, etc.


*One last thing, I could think of a few more infantry weapons that were iconic. The M1928 and M1 Thompson was iconic for the British as the commando weapon(Early war), the Sten(mainly Mk.I) was iconic as the resistance weapon, and the M1 Garand was iconic as the best semi-automatic rifle. The MG42 was also iconic as a defensive weapon.
TigerII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-09, 14:29   Link #66
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
Stalingrad itself is Cliche now, lol. Movies, games, etc.

I mean there was Kharkov, Leningrad, Kiev, Warsaw, Bucharest, Sevastopol, etc.
Precisely. It's to the point where all that most people know about the Eastern Front are 1) the Russian Winter (usually incorrectly) and 2) Stalingrad. Whereas in reality the Eastern Front had more interesting and brutal battles than pretty much the rest of World War II combined.

What I'd really love to see depicted would be August Storm, but it's highly (highly, highly) unlikely to ever happen in animated form, and certainly not made by Japanese animators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
4tran, did you mean the Cossacks?
Not quite - Cossacks fought on both sides of the Eastern Front and they're probably more associated with the SS Cossacks than anything else. I'm talking more about the Soviet cavalry that was used for the entire lenght of the war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
I also agree, when WWII shows are made by Japanese studio it does have a bias, but I guess the same can be said for Western versions of wars, etc.
It's less a question of bias (which I don't really care all that much about either way) than it is the kind of Nazi fetishism, Axis apologism and overly done philosophizing that's too common from Japanese creators. A lack of proper historical perspective is a problem that's so common with just about all historical works that it almost doesn't bear mentioning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
*One last thing, I could think of a few more infantry weapons that were iconic. The M1928 and M1 Thompson was iconic for the British as the commando weapon(Early war), the Sten(mainly Mk.I) was iconic as the resistance weapon, and the M1 Garand was iconic as the best semi-automatic rifle. The MG42 was also iconic as a defensive weapon.
I don't know if I can really agree with these choices save for the MG42. The Thompson already has very strong connotations to Prohibition-era gangsters, the M1 isn't distinctive enough in appearance, and I can't really associate Stens with any particular group aside from the desperation of the post-Dunkirk days. On the other hand, the PPSh instantly draws to mind the fighting on the Eastern Front. Heck, there were so many of them running around that it was the second-most common submachine gun used by the Germans.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-09, 16:24   Link #67
TigerII
Pilot in Training
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Earth
The Sten was used by every resistance force, even Tito's partisans in Yugoslavia. When I think of Western resistance, I think of the Sten

The reason the PPSH was use by was the Germans was the Mp40/41 jammed quite a bit and of course had the 32 round magazine instead of the 70 round drum the PPSH had.

I will say of the WWII era weapons, the PPSH lasted the longest. Hell, Coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan still run into them as well as Russian troops finding Chechnyans with them.



Also, August Storm is something the Japanese would like to forget. The Kwantung Army, which was supposed to be one of Japan's best, was utterly decimated. Granted many men were pulled from the army to fight the Americans in the Pacific and the British/Indians in Burma/India. I have only ever found one game that involves AS and that is Il-2 Sturmovik 1946.


While the few anime that are about WWII are as you said, actual Japanese persons I have run into either don't know what happened or deny it. There was one girl at my school who said Nanking was a lie by the Western powers. That dumbfounded me.
TigerII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-10, 07:31   Link #68
MrProphet
The Commissar Vanishes
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Age: 31
Send a message via ICQ to MrProphet
Well, what can I say. You have the Stuka Junkers, you have the T-34, you have dual-wielding MP-40s, you have your blocking swords with a Mosin-Nagant, you have from the hip MG-42 spamming, you have yuor Mauser C96.

I think this is what you call "hitting all the bases".
MrProphet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-10, 08:16   Link #69
TigerII
Pilot in Training
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Earth
Katyushas, Panthers and Shturmoviks are needed for all the famous Eastern front things. Maybe Vasili.
TigerII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-10, 09:58   Link #70
Simon
気持ち悪い
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I'd have preferred it if they showed Soviet cavalry rather than Teutonic Knights
It appears that the inclusion of the Knights in the story is more than just penny-dreadful Nazi occultism. The Order of the Sacred Sword mentioned on the website fits with the Livonian Order of Teutonic Knights, who existed as the independent Livonian Brothers of the Sword until 1236. They were defeated by Russians at the Battle of the Ice in 1242, an event commemorated in the 1938 historical epic Alexander Nevsky. Apparently the film drew explicit parallels between the crusading knights and the Nazis, and was used as a propaganda piece during the war - it'll be interesting to see if it's referenced in First Squad.
Simon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-10, 14:26   Link #71
MrProphet
The Commissar Vanishes
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Age: 31
Send a message via ICQ to MrProphet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Apparently the film drew explicit parallels between the crusading knights and the Nazis, and was used as a propaganda piece during the war - it'll be interesting to see if it's referenced in First Squad.
What I've been told about the plot goes like this: Ahnenerbe uses some kind of occult experiment to resurrect the German knights who sank under the ice during the battle with Alexander Nevsky to use them in the fight against USSR. Our glorious First Squad then fights them aided by some ancient kung-fu-toting Slavic magus.

Well, t's certainly "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!!!" Russian-style. But hey, it's entertaining. 8)
MrProphet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-10, 18:55   Link #72
Simon
気持ち悪い
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrProphet View Post
Ahnenerbe uses some kind of occult experiment to resurrect the German knights who sank under the ice during the battle with Alexander Nevsky to use them in the fight against USSR.
Aha, that explains this scene in the trailer then.

Quote:
Well, t's certainly "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!!!" Russian-style. But hey, it's entertaining. 8)
Yeah, it looks damn cool and it's one of those rarest of things - an anime not set in high school

Excuse my historical ignorance, but am I right that Estonians would be particularly pleased to see the Livonian Order's butts getting kicked? Or does history now view the crusaders as the lesser evil compared to your Eastern neighbour?
Simon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-10, 19:29   Link #73
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 27
I see quite some mentions regarding the location this should place ... well, in all honesty i wouldn't expect all that much historical accuracy (nor focus) on that front, given that it is likely going to devote much of it's focus to the supernatural element, and the scope is also likely to be local enough to render whatever location it might be set in as not much above a simple name for reference's sake. I would like to see an anime featuring one of the fiercer battles on eastern front, but this is unlikely going to be it. Never the less, i am quite looking towards it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon
Excuse my historical ignorance, but am I right that Estonians would be particularly pleased to see the Livonian Order's butts getting kicked? Or does history now view the crusaders as the lesser evil compared to your Eastern neighbour?
I wouldn't really want to raise the topic here, but you would be very hard pressed (if not impossible) to find anyone who cares even the slightest about the crusaders in a special manner one way or another.
__________________
Skyfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-10, 20:02   Link #74
MrProphet
The Commissar Vanishes
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Age: 31
Send a message via ICQ to MrProphet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Excuse my historical ignorance, but am I right that Estonians would be particularly pleased to see the Livonian Order's butts getting kicked? Or does history now view the crusaders as the lesser evil compared to your Eastern neighbour?
Being of the same ethnic origin as the kind underage folks who would putting the smack down on all that Teutonic ass, I'm all for it. (am I vague enough to fool the passerby trolls?) 8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
I see quite some mentions regarding the location this should place ...
Not exactly sure about the current film, but the original music video had some very authentic-looking battles in the Moscow Metro, so I am assuming that as the very least the original story took place there.

Quote:
I wouldn't really want to raise the topic here, but you would be very hard pressed (if not impossible) to find anyone who cares even the slightest about the crusaders in a special manner one way or another.
You'd be surprised. This anime involves 2 of the 3 more important signature moments of Russian history: Prince Alexander Nevsky's wars against the Germans and the Swedes and World War II (the third is French invasion of 1812, by the way). This angle will play big in Russia, believe me. And seeing as how anime is getting some very nice exposure vis-a-vis the local entertainment industry, this film will not go overlooked.

As long as the production company squares away all of its problem. I heard they still don't have a theatrical distribution deal. Or, at least, they've had a media partner and then lost it. No new announcement since then.
MrProphet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-10, 23:16   Link #75
TigerII
Pilot in Training
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Earth
I am confused again. The production team consists of a joint deal with Japanese/Canadian/and Russian producers?
TigerII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-11, 00:26   Link #76
Simon
気持ち悪い
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
I am confused again. The production team consists of a joint deal with Japanese/Canadian/and Russian producers?
Yep, it's a co-production between Studio 4C and Molot Entertainment who're Russian-Canadian (mostly Russian, according to an earlier post in this thread). More at ANN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrProphet View Post
This angle will play big in Russia, believe me. And seeing as how anime is getting some very nice exposure vis-a-vis the local entertainment industry, this film will not go overlooked.
Skyfall's right, it's always risky to discuss nationalism in an anime thread (unless flamewars are your idea of fun). But it did intrigue me that the knights weren't just thrown in because someone thought they'd look cool. With Studio 4C's name on the bill I doubt they'll have problems finding international distributors, but I wonder if resonance between the historical references and current events will also help sell the film outside Russia...

Do we know yet what language(s) the movie will be voiced in?
Simon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-11, 03:08   Link #77
Skyfall
Lost in my dreams...
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrProphet View Post
You'd be surprised. This anime involves 2 of the 3 more important signature moments of Russian history: Prince Alexander Nevsky's wars against the Germans and the Swedes and World War II (the third is French invasion of 1812, by the way). This angle will play big in Russia, believe me. And seeing as how anime is getting some very nice exposure vis-a-vis the local entertainment industry, this film will not go overlooked.
Oh i am not arguing it plays on some notable moments in Russian history, but he was asking whether Estonians specifically would care to see Crusaders being smacked around ... to which the answer is a clear cut "no". Even if we ere to expand that to "Germans" (Nazi), it would still be an echo of a far cry from the amount of people who hold some form of animosity (please don't blow this comment out of proportion though ... this is why i said i don't really want to touch the topic here) for the aforementioned eastern neighbor. That said, i really doubt whether Estonians will be specifically motivated or "cheering" for one of the sides and will simply enjoy the movie for what it is
__________________
Skyfall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-11, 05:43   Link #78
v1nx
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Send a message via ICQ to v1nx Send a message via Skype™ to v1nx
Quote:
Do we know yet what language(s) the movie will be voiced in?
well of. site provides info in 3 languages, so I guess it'll be voiced also in Rus, Eng and Jap.
Anyway - Jap & Rus = 100%,
v1nx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-11, 08:39   Link #79
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrProphet View Post
What I've been told about the plot goes like this: Ahnenerbe uses some kind of occult experiment to resurrect the German knights who sank under the ice during the battle with Alexander Nevsky to use them in the fight against USSR. Our glorious First Squad then fights them aided by some ancient kung-fu-toting Slavic magus.
Hmm... They should have been fighting them off with some 76.2mm surprise . Actually, that sounds very cool. I'm looking forward to this film more than any other anime film in ages. ( Although I should have probably looked at their website first )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
I see quite some mentions regarding the location this should place ... well, in all honesty i wouldn't expect all that much historical accuracy (nor focus) on that front, given that it is likely going to devote much of it's focus to the supernatural element, and the scope is also likely to be local enough to render whatever location it might be set in as not much above a simple name for reference's sake. I would like to see an anime featuring one of the fiercer battles on eastern front, but this is unlikely going to be it. Never the less, i am quite looking towards it.
You may be a bit surprised about the amount of care and detail paid to the setting. Looking over the First Squad website, it looks like it's set during the early months of 1942. This is an extremely obscure time period of the war since it sat right between the end of one major offensive and the beginning of the next. I would doubt that too many people (speaking of non-grognards) outside of Russians and other ex-Soviet citizens would be even aware of the details of this period. The details of the website indicate that Molot has certainly done their research here.

Of course it's just as likely that they picked this timeframe because it's the 700th anniversary of the Battle of the Ice, but the amount of effort they put into it is still commendable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Yep, it's a co-production between Studio 4C and Molot Entertainment who're Russian-Canadian (mostly Russian, according to an earlier post in this thread). More at ANN.
It looks like the creative control of this film is squarely in the hands of Molot Entertainment. For me, that's a very encouraging sign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
With Studio 4C's name on the bill I doubt they'll have problems finding international distributors, but I wonder if resonance between the historical references and current events will also help sell the film outside Russia...
It probably won't make too much difference since most viewers don't give a damn about history. Rorouni Kenshin was a very popular anime, but I don't too many fans knew all that much the Meiji Restoration. In any case, if the setting were to draw any interest it'd be from the combination of the following phrases: "World War II", "Nazis" and "magic" .
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-11, 08:52   Link #80
wingdarkness
Retweet Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
You had me at "animator of Batman: Gotham Knight"...

I'll be keepin' a eye out for this one...
__________________
Fly since ...
wingdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.