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Old 2008-09-24, 15:28   Link #11601
morbosfist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
Don't you think that that is...being a LITTLE more biased than acceptable? I don't really see how it's "relying" moreso than Kallen "relies" on her eyesight to pilot. No one was complaining when she had the superior mech.

On the contrary, you complain when Suzaku has the superior mech, but deem it ok when Bismarck uses the future Geass.

So with scales even, why not use something that would create an easier victory?

But it's the forgoing of logic via bias in the first place. Suzaku should turn off his magical power that he can't control or lower his will to live so he can make things fair against an opponent? It's like saying Lelouch should have brought less forces because he'd outnumber Schneizel before the UFN joined him to even it.
The thing about the superior frame was only about beating a seasoned pilot with Geass. He had the advantage there, and just got a boost. As for being biased, yeah, I've admitted that. I figure it has to fail at some point. I'm not saying he should turn it off or anything, and he's shown that he can control it.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:29   Link #11602
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Yep, and I really dislike when a person comes with an "official spoilers" without any source nor picture.

We will have to wait for koshimizu, cupahe or at least someone who read 2chan
I thought she already posted it here?
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:29   Link #11603
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
The thing about the superior frame was only about beating a seasoned pilot with Geass. He had the advantage there, and just got a boost. As for being biased, yeah, I've admitted that. I figure it has to fail at some point.
I'd call nuking 25 million people an epic fail. Otherwise, Geass doesn't "fail" unless you have a will strong enough to break it. In this case, Suzaku wants to live. The Geass' foible isn't its limitations, it's the situations that occur from an order you can't go against.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:31   Link #11604
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
I'd call nuking 25 million people an epic fail. Otherwise, Geass doesn't "fail" unless you have a will strong enough to break it. In this case, Suzaku wants to live.
Not what I meant. First, nuking the city wasn't a "fail" in the technical sense. He's alive, isn't he? It did work in getting him to safety. by "fail", I mean he uses it yet still cannot win. It's not like it makes him invincible. I'd like to see what happens when it simply cannot help him.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:33   Link #11605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
The thing about the superior frame was only about beating a seasoned pilot with Geass. He had the advantage there, and just got a boost. As for being biased, yeah, I've admitted that. I figure it has to fail at some point. I'm not saying he should turn it off or anything, and he's shown that he can control it.
Well that statement proves that we can't take your words seriously then.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:33   Link #11606
Sports72Xtrm
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Not only that but Kallen beating Suzaku is going by the logic of Pilot who can push himself past his limits<Pilot who is pretty good but still can't push herself to extraordinary levels but still wins??? When did jealousy rage > geass seed "god" mode in any logical reality?
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:33   Link #11607
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You guys, Live Geass is a huge automatic plus but it is not like Suzaku will put an Excalibur out of his ass and start cutting everyone or something whenever he is at pinch.
If Kallen pwns him like she did with CC {god, that was live Mortal Kombat -flawless} Suzu does not stand a chance.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:34   Link #11608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
I'd call nuking 25 million people an epic fail. Otherwise, Geass doesn't "fail" unless you have a will strong enough to break it. In this case, Suzaku wants to live. The Geass' foible isn't its limitations, it's the situations that occur from an order you can't go against.
I actually think that's what he meant when he said 'fail.' Not that it wouldn't fail to activate or Suzaku would break it, just that, even with his 'live on' Geass activated, he may still lose. The 'live on' command isn't infallible. If Suzaku is in a situation where he can't win and can't run, he would lose. It's unlikely, but it is possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandylion View Post
Well that statement proves that we can't take your words seriously then.
Everybody has biases. That's human nature. Even with biases people can still make valid points. I'm a Kallen fan, but even I'll admit the odds are stacked against her with Suzaku's 'live on' Geass, but that doesn't mean she's going to lose. I'm thinking draw or 'double KO' myself (not actually KO since they need to get to Lelouch, but you know what I mean).
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:35   Link #11609
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Um, C.C. was in a Frame with tech FAR inferior to Kallen's, and she wasn't a good pilot. The Lancelot Frontier was inferior to even the original Lancelot, made from spare parts. It was two whole generations under the SEITEN. Of course it was going to get trashed.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:36   Link #11610
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Dandylion View Post
Well that statement proves that we can't take your words seriously then.
If it makes you feel any better, I honestly don't care. Everyone has a bias. Yours is clear, as is mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Not only that but Kallen beating Suzaku is going by the logic of Pilot who can push himself past his limits<Pretty who is pretty good but still can't push herself to extraordinary levels but still wins??? When did jealousy rage > geass seed mode in any logical reality?
When has Suzaku pushed himself past his limits? He's superhuman, but in a Knightmare he can only do so much. Who's to say Kallen can't meet that?
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:37   Link #11611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Um, C.C. was in a Frame with tech FAR inferior to Kallen's, and she wasn't a good pilot. The Lancelot Frontier was inferior to even the original Lancelot, made from spare parts. It was two whole generations under the SEITEN. Of course it was going to get trashed.

Well yeah, what i meant is that i want Kallen not to hold back at all. I want to see an epic fight. Live Geass does give a plus to Suzaku but that is not everything.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:37   Link #11612
Vakir
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Not what I meant. First, nuking the city wasn't a "fail" in the technical sense. He's alive, isn't he? It did work in getting him to safety. by "fail", I mean he uses it yet still cannot win. It's not like it makes him invincible. I'd like to see what happens when it simply cannot help him.
Beyond the convenient nuking a city option, we saw what would happen when it simply can't help him. He'd die. It's not so much that you're curious about the mechanics of it so much that you're playing cheerleader.

You were the person who said the "Live" Geass functions only when he goes suicidal, and we saw how that isn't the way it works.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:37   Link #11613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Not what I meant. First, nuking the city wasn't a "fail" in the technical sense. He's alive, isn't he? It did work in getting him to safety. by "fail", I mean he uses it yet still cannot win. It's not like it makes him invincible. I'd like to see what happens when it simply cannot help him.
For starters it's a curse that he has to bear with. He never asked for it in the first place and it's been hounding him for more than 30 episodes.

Now with Lelouch's help he's been able to turn it around and use it to his advantage to best serve Lelouch. It's not a one shot 100% kill rate.

As for when it cannot simply help him, it surely did NOT help him during his fight with Bismarck. Hence, the nickname we gave him RunZaku. It's either that or he well, dies. I mean how complicated can it be?

Besides it's not like he's spamming his geass.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:37   Link #11614
bladeofdarkness
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nunnaly just proved that will and determination can beat the effects of a geass
and kallen is running on the same mindframe as nunnaly is (stoping lelouch at any cost becouse she loves him)

and emotions tramp magical brainwashing any day in a mecha anime when the two pilots are equal (which they are, deal with it)

and probably most importent is that KALLEN ISNT THERE FOR SUZAKU (gino might be)
shes there for lelouch and suzaku is not the final goal but just the dragon
shes gets by him one way or another
and since she and lelouch have enough time together for her to say the gum line it wont be with suzaku on her tail
she beats him for the same reason he beat her in 24 of last season
becouse the plot says so
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:38   Link #11615
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Because Suzaku's an Irregular plus a Rounds, plus the person made to be the best pilot in the series, and Kallen is not an Irregular, conversely, is not on the same physical level as Suzaku, and, whilst she is on the level of a Rounds, is not superhuman?
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:38   Link #11616
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Originally Posted by skyless View Post
You guys, Live Geass is a huge automatic plus but it is not like Suzaku will put an Excalibur out of his ass and start cutting everyone or something whenever he is at pinch.
If Kallen pwns him like she did with CC {god, that was live Mortal Kombat -flawless} Suzu does not stand a chance.
Okay I laughed at this, you obviously don't comprehend the superiority of Kallen KMF compared to C.C.'s did you or else you wouldn't have made that statement. Trust me when both parties are equal there won't be any owning of any kind since they will both recieve heavy damage, but I throw Kallen fans a bone.

Suzaku defeats her KMF but she uses the ejection seat to fly away and hit the inside of Damocles in the same room where Lelouch and Nunnally are she says her gumline, bang! now everyone's happy
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:39   Link #11617
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
If it makes you feel any better, I honestly don't care. Everyone has a bias. Yours is clear, as is mine.
There's a difference between damn logic and being biased, you should look it up for once
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:40   Link #11618
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
Beyond the convenient nuking a city option, we saw what would happen when it simply can't happen. He'd die. It's not so much that you're curious about the mechanics of it so much that you're playing cheerleader.
I'll admit that, but I'd still like to see how he deals with it in a Knightmare. I figure he'd eventually eject, but with his new control it'd be interesting to see if he could fight to the death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
You were the person who said the "Live" Geass functions only when he goes suicidal, and we saw how that isn't the way it works.
Up until Bismarck, there was no evidence to the contrary that it worked any other way, or that Suzaku could in any way control it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandylion View Post
There's a difference between damn logic and being biased, you should look it up for once
Find me your logic and we'll talk. It isn't impossible, or even unlikely, for her to win, no matter how much you may want to think it is.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:41   Link #11619
Vakir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
nunnaly just proved that will and determination can beat the effects of a geass
and kallen is running on the same mindframe as nunnaly is (stoping lelouch at any cost becouse she loves him)
Nunnally proved will and determination can undo the effects of someone's OWN Geass. Unless Kallen can shoot laser beams out of her eyes, which I'm sure is the next theory from Kalulu fans (there must be a reason for it!), she can't undo the effects of Suzaku's Geass.

Quote:
and emotions tramp magical brainwashing any day in a mecha anime when the two pilots are equal (which they are, deal with it)
By that logic, Bismarck's amazing devotion to Marianne would easily defeat the "live" Geass. It's also not brainwashing if it's now choice.

Quote:
and probably most importent is that KALLEN ISNT THERE FOR SUZAKU (gino might be)
shes there for lelouch and suzaku is not the final goal but just the dragon
shes gets by him one way or another
and since she and lelouch have enough time together for her to say the gum line it wont be with suzaku on her tail
You realize that in saying this, you're acknowledging that you think the story is only moving forward based on Kallen's motivations rather than the rest of the collective cast, even though she's only the fourth most major character, right?

Do you realize why that doesn't really work?

Quote:
Up until Bismarck, there was no evidence to the contrary that it worked any other way, or that Suzaku could in any way control it.
Besides the assassin guy, which is debatable I'll grant you. There was no evidence it only triggered based on suicidal intentions. It was turned into blatant anti-Spinzaku...spin courtesy of you.
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Old 2008-09-24, 15:41   Link #11620
incorrupts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandylion View Post
I okay I laughed at this, you obviously don't comprehend the superiority of Kallen KMF compared to C.C.'s did you or else you wouldn't have made that statement. Trust me when both parties are equal there won't be any owning of any kind since they will both recieve heavy damage, but I throw Kallen fans a bone.

Suzaku defeats her KMF but she uses the ejection seat to fly away and hit the inside of Damocles in the same room where Lelouch and Nunnally are she says her gumline, bang! now everyone's happy
Dude, i understand that Kallen's Guren was like totally superior compared to CC's, i was just saying that i want Kallen to go into a street-fighter mode at Suzaku as well. Gee.

{i really don't know who i will support, as i like them both so i am just hoping for an epic battle}
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