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Old 2008-09-27, 21:27   Link #12501
Sports72Xtrm
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Say what? When has she been relying on better toys? Suzaku's always been relying on the better toys. Arm shields, Harken booster, flight pack, Hadron blaster: he's always been on high end of new toys. Episode 18 even showed it: "She blocked it? My Hadron blaster?" When his toys suddenly fail him, he's at a loss. He was sweating because he knew he was suddenly outmatched..
So the one (or one of the) times she wins, she wins by having the better toy thus proving my point. Staying alive does not count as winning or keeping up if she is clearly being pushed to her limits and unable to go on the offensive.

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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Kallen's always been able to keep up, so Geass-assisted reaction time will at best make the fight a bit more difficult for her. Certainly nothing that can't be overcome.
When has Kallen ever beaten a geassed Suzaku? I don't remember because it hasn't happened. Sorry but this point has no evidence. She wins by having the better toy. The only time she fought anything close to that was during the Euphie death and she got pawned in less than 2 seconds. Nothing that can't be overcome well we will see but seeing as they didn't even give her a training montage to overcome it I say it would be a cop out if she does.
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Old 2008-09-27, 21:30   Link #12502
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Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt View Post
No. I said i didn't want to have to wait week after week between episodes. The last episode is only a few hours away. Anyways I took a look in here and the only thing people were talking about at the time was the fight between Guren and Lancelot.
I still haven't seen 23 or 24.
Good for you. Even though I don't agree with your reasons I completely understand.

Anyway, there's been a whole lot of promises flying around. I for one am relying on a promise between Lelouch and C.C. And of course ZR is another mystery.
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Old 2008-09-27, 21:38   Link #12503
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
So the one time she wins she wins by having the better toy thus proving my point. Staying alive does not count as winning.
It doesn't, actually. Not "at a loss" as in "she won." It's "at a loss" in the sense that he's suddenly unsure what he's supposed to do. It's the same thing when the Guren first shows up. The Lancelot had been the end-all of battles until this point, then all of a sudden this bad-ass unit jumps in and he can scarcely believe it, so he starts throwing everything he has at it and nothing works.

Part of this can be attributed to their positions, I suppose. He was told this unit was one of a kind, the best there is, then suddenly he's found a match. More to the point, he has experienced nothing else. Right out of the gate he gets this uber Knightmare and figures he can never lose. Kallen, on the other hand, started out with a crap Glasgow and moved up to her unit. She's used to working against the odds.

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
When has Kallen ever beaten a geassed Suzaku? I don't remember because it hasn't happened. Sorry but this point has no evidence. She wins by having the better toy. Nothing that can't be overcome well we will see but seeing as they didn't even give her a training montage to overcome it I say it would be a cop out if she does.
It would hardly be a cop-out. You're letting Bismarck's failure cloud your judgment. She's never fought Suzaku with live Geass, this is true, because it wouldn't make much if any difference. It worked against Bismarck because his Geass was allowing him to barely persevere against a superior opponent. Suzaku fixed that with his Geass. Against Kallen, there would be almost no difference. It wouldn't surprise me if he goes the whole fight with it on and no difference is ever noticed.
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Old 2008-09-27, 21:39   Link #12504
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Originally Posted by Theron View Post
Good for you. Even though I don't agree with your reasons I completely understand.

Anyway, there's been a whole lot of promises flying around. I for one am relying on a promise between Lelouch and C.C. And of course ZR is another mystery.
It could vary well be separate. It just feels like Zero's Requiem is a collection of promises made to a goal. They each get something out of it. I say this because I don't think Suzaku has forgiven Lelouch. I believe that he's possibly just helping him to get what he wants. He needs the power of the emperor toward his own goal.
It just feels odd that these three are tossing around the word promise. if they aren't somehow interconnected.
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Old 2008-09-27, 21:45   Link #12505
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Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt View Post
But normally when Lancelot and Guren have me up it's never been even or something has interrupted.
The first fight Guren was winning, but the ground crumbled under her feet.
The second time was that second battle to capture Cornelia, but it was never clear how that one ended.
"The first fight Guren was winning, but the ground crumbled under her feet."
Was the Gurren winning? Suzaku trashed the Gurren prototype and still had enough time to catch to Lelouch who was making a run for it but distracted Suzaku by using a civilian for Suzaku to save.
"The second time was that second battle to capture Cornelia, but it was never clear how that one ended."
Fight is more equal here. All seemed even until Kallen made a tactical mistake of being pushed towards a position with no solid ground and got immobilized. She would have been dead if Suzaku had time to finish her off and run off and run to Cornelia in time.
Thus the only time they appeared to fight on equal ground was the first two battles or atleast the battle for Cornelia which ended in Suzaku victory. Everything else is KMF inequality or interrupted or runzaku to do something else.
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Old 2008-09-27, 21:49   Link #12506
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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
"The first fight Guren was winning, but the ground crumbled under her feet."
Was the Gurren winning? Suzaku trashed the Gurren prototype and still had enough time to catch to Lelouch who was making a run for it but distracted Suzaku by using a civilian for Suzaku to save.
"The second time was that second battle to capture Cornelia, but it was never clear how that one ended."
Fight is more equal here. All seemed even until Kallen made a tactical mistake of being pushed towards a position with no solid ground and got immobilized. She would have been dead if Suzaku had time to finish her off and run off and run to Cornelia in time.
Thus the only time they appeared to fight on equal ground was the first two battles or atleast the battle for Cornelia which ended in Suzaku victory. Everything else is KMF inequality or interrupted or runzaku to do something else.
In the first battle between Lancelot and the Guren. The Guren was winning. It was picking it apart piece by piece. It lost it's mobility, it couldn't hit it with a single shot. Kallen destroyed the sword. The only reason the fight didn't continue is because the ground crumbled under the Guren and the arm was damaged in the fall.
The next fight they had Suzaku had the float system and still the Guren was matching it's mobility.

In that first fight Kallen was getting hit after hit. Suzaku could only remove parts. Meanwhile he couldn't get a single hit in. That's winning. Also Kallen wasn't pushed there. It was the forse of blocking the close range cannon blast and the road system compensating and baring on the ground that broke the soil. If that fight had gone on Suzaku would of lost and he didn't have the Live Geass effect yet to save him.
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Old 2008-09-27, 21:54   Link #12507
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Was the Gurren winning? Suzaku trashed the Gurren prototype and still had enough time to catch to Lelouch who was making a run for it but distracted Suzaku by using a civilian for Suzaku to save.

"The second time was that second battle to capture Cornelia, but it was never clear how that one ended."
Fight is more equal here. All seemed even until Kallen made a tactical mistake of being pushed towards a position with no solid ground and got immobilized. She would have been dead if Suzaku had time to finish her off and run off and run to Cornelia in time.
You seem to have episode 2 and episode 11 mixed up with 11 and 13. Kallen was piloting a Glasgow in episode 2, the first scenario which you outline. Episode 11 introduces the Guren, where she melts his foot paddle, bats the other aside when he tosses it, dodges at least three VARIS shots, melts two of his four harkens, one of his swords, then blocks a VARIS shot point blank before the cliff collapses. Suzaku was being worn down quick. Episode 13 was the first fair fight, where Kallen is ordered to retreat.

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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
Thus the only time they appeared to fight on equal ground was the first two battles or at least the battle for Cornelia which ended in Suzaku victory. Everything else is KMF inequality or interrupted or runzaku to do something else.
Kallen falling off a cliff and Suzaku going back to Cornelia is hardly his victory. He could have pressed on but left.
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Old 2008-09-27, 21:56   Link #12508
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Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt View Post
In the first battle between Lancelot and the Guren. The Guren was winning. It was picking it apart piece by piece. It lost it's mobility, it couldn't hit it with a single shot. Kallen destroyed the sword. The only reason the fight didn't continue is because the ground crumbled under the Guren and the arm was damaged in the fall.
The next fight they had Suzaku had the float system and still the Guren was matching it's mobility.

In that first fight Kallen was getting hit after hit. Suzaku could only remove parts. Meanwhile he couldn't get a single hit in. That's winning.
You are talking about the second battle the battle for Cornelia season 1 episode 11. So she got rid of his sword but Suzaku hit her with a Halduron blaster pushing her to edge and got tripped over a cliff immobilizing her and her main weapon. Suzaku still had a weapon and could have killed her. Either way still a Suzaku victory. I don't know how it was a Kallen victory if anything they were easily match but the end proves who is the better.
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Old 2008-09-27, 21:59   Link #12509
morbosfist
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So she got rid of his sword but Suzaku hit her with a Halduron blaster pushing her to edge and got tripped over a cliff immobilizing her and her main weapon.
VARIS, not Hadron blaster, and it did not push her back. She was in the same place the entire time.

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Suzaku still had a weapon and could have killed her. Either way still a Suzaku victory. I don't know how it was a Kallen victory if anything they were easily match but the end proves who is the better.
It proves one is lucky. Suzaku didn't do that on purpose. He was losing, badly. Every attack failed, and a fair portion of his armament was destroyed.
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Old 2008-09-27, 22:12   Link #12510
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VARIS, not Hadron blaster, and it did not push her back. She was in the same place the entire time.

It proves one is lucky. Suzaku didn't do that on purpose. He was losing, badly. Every attack failed, and a fair portion of his armament was destroyed.
Luck? Bullshit. If I may quote from a movie known as a Knight's Tale "Kallen has been weighed, she has been measured, and she has been found wanting." The Gurren got immobilized, not the Lancelot. The end show who is the better.
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Old 2008-09-27, 22:13   Link #12511
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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
You are talking about the second battle the battle for Cornelia season 1 episode 11. So she got rid of his sword but Suzaku hit her with a Halduron blaster pushing her to edge and got tripped over a cliff immobilizing her and her main weapon. Suzaku still had a weapon and could have killed her. Either way still a Suzaku victory. I don't know how it was a Kallen victory if anything they were easily match but the end proves who is the better.
No. I'm talking about the first battle in Narita where Guren made it's debut. First Lancelot could shoot Guren even once. He tried a kick but Kallen grabbed the foot and tried to fry him, but Suzaku removed the mobility system he was using on the feet. Right there he lost his advance mobility. Again Suzaku tried to shoot Guren, but missed every shot. he kicked the leftover mobility system at the Guren, but she swatted it away like a fly. They had a little hand to hand combat. Suzaku tried to use the sword, but Kallen grabbed it and irradiated it. Suzaku then tried to shoot Guren but she blocked the shot. That's when the ground broke out from under her.

The fact Lancelot could even hit Guren, but she was breaking all his weapons one at a time shows she had the win till the ground broke.
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Old 2008-09-27, 22:13   Link #12512
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Producer Kawaguchi's column in official newsletter.

Good night. It's me Kawaguchi.
We've reached the last episode. I'd like to say a big "thank you" to everyone who's been sticking with Code Geass Lelouch of the Rebellion and Code Geass Lelouch of the Rebellion R2. This is also the last time for me to write this column.

This time I'll talk about the secret behind preview of last week.

We didn't use any footage from Turn 25, but used footage from Stage 1 of previous season instead. It is Director Taniguchi's wish to clearify Lelouch's position and the starting point of his actions for fans to recognize again. Hence the composition of the preview.

The director and I have been thinking over on whether to release at least one screenshot of turn 25. But rejected this idea because it'll mess up the original meaning this preview tries to carry.

While we're at it, it'll be nice if you can watch the first episode again before watching the last episode, and feel Lelouch's path.

Maybe I'm doing unnecessary things, but I made some screenshots of Turn 25, just in case.
(Translation note: I think he's referring to the 4 screenshots included in the newsletter.)

Well, to everyone of the fans, thank you for accompanying this column, as well as watching the show. We thank you with all our hearts.
Seems like epic level death flag on Lelouch (unsurprisingly)
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Old 2008-09-27, 22:14   Link #12513
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Luck? Bullshit. If I may quote from a movie known as a Knight's Tale "Kallen has been weighed, she has been measured, and she has been found wanting." The Gurren got immobilized, not the Lancelot. The end show who is the better.
Yes, luck. It is luck unless he meant to do it, which he didn't. He was desperate. Every time he attacked, she melted something. It's the equivalent of having a sword fight with someone then claiming you're the better fighter when they have a heart attack after disarming you.
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Old 2008-09-27, 22:15   Link #12514
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No. I'm talking about the first battle in Narita where Guren made it's debut. First Lancelot could shoot Guren even once. He tried a kick but Kallen grabbed the foot and tried to fry him, but Suzaku removed the mobility system he was using on the feet. Right there he lost his advance mobility. Again Suzaku tried to shoot Guren, but missed every shot. he kicked the leftover mobility system at the Guren, but she swatted it away like a fly. They had a little hand to hand combat. Suzaku tried to use the sword, but Kallen grabbed it and irradiated it. Suzaku then tried to shoot Guren but she blocked the shot. That's when the ground broke out from under her.

The fact Lancelot could even hit Guren, but she was breaking all his weapons one at a time shows she had the win till the ground broke.
What episode and season is this?
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Old 2008-09-27, 22:16   Link #12515
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What episode and season is this?
Season 1, episode 11. The one we're talking about. You seem to forget the pounding she was giving him.
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Old 2008-09-27, 22:17   Link #12516
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What episode and season is this?
Episode 11 of Season 1
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Old 2008-09-27, 22:19   Link #12517
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Can't you guys wait 4 and half more hours and just see who wins the fight, and THEN argue over whether Suzaku and/or Kallen were gyped.

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Old 2008-09-27, 22:20   Link #12518
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Can't you guys wait 4 and half more hours and just see who wins the fight, and THEN argue over whether Suzaku and/or Kallen where gyped.

And spare ourselves the roundabout debate? Surely you jest.
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Old 2008-09-27, 22:21   Link #12519
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Can't you guys wait 4 and half more hours and just see who wins the fight, and THEN argue over whether Suzaku and/or Kallen were gyped.

They'll always been bitching one way or another if Suzaku wins they'll blame his Live command Hax if Kallen wins they'll blame her mech Hax
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Old 2008-09-27, 22:22   Link #12520
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They'll always been bitching one way or another if Suzaku wins they'll blame his Live command Hax if Kallen wins they'll blame her mech Hax
And if neither win they'll complain that the fight didn't have a proper resolution.
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