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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 94 58.39%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 41 25.47%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 6.21%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 1.86%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 3.11%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.24%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 6 3.73%
Voters: 161. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-07, 08:47   Link #481
indr0008
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second season==sheryl dies in this season

me don't want that
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Old 2008-09-07, 09:12   Link #482
Ashlotte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grss1982 View Post
Oh. My bad.


Anyways....

@kilroy0097: With an avatar like that I take if you approve of Grace's "Hopes and Dreams?"



BTW...it could also be Grace's "Despairs and Nightmares."
Yea you have to love grace feeling herself up at the end their...

I guess I just like evil/bitchy female characters...I did enjoy seeing Sheryl singing once more albeit alittle low key.
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Old 2008-09-07, 09:22   Link #483
ipernorris
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Originally Posted by Kimichi View Post
Yea you have to love grace feeling herself up at the end their...

I guess I just like evil/bitchy female characters...I did enjoy seeing Sheryl singing once more albeit alittle low key.
Can you even call Grace a "bitchy female"? She is a cyborg and she seems to have multiple personalities as well...
She can change from being a male to a female in matter of minutes... that's plain creepy imho. When she grabs her own breasts I felt sick thinking what were they made of and other similiar thoughts...
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Old 2008-09-07, 09:24   Link #484
glyph
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Originally Posted by ipernorris View Post
Uhm I think you misunderstood what Grace meant with "they're an obstacle". She wasn't referring to the Vajra but to the humantradis dreams of expanding in the universe colonizing planets and such, answering in her mind to Leon's speech. I think we can safely say that the Vajra are one of those civilizations with the philosophy "if you come in our territory you're dead!"...
You're reading too much into a rhethorical question by Leon while he's channeling the fellow in my avatar. Grace is just bemusedly answering his overblown rhethoric to herself "because they are freaking nuisances, is why". (I half expected her to quote Char and quip "because you brats are dumbass tools, is why")

It's confirmed by Grace's "hopes 'n dreams" scene that there is something on the planet that can give the owner control over the Galaxy, which Leon is not willing to share.

Also, humanity does not have some kind of manifest destiny to colonize the entire Galaxy over the corpses of other other sentient species, and to take their stuff, as Leon claims.

As for _why_ the Vajra are attacking humanity, at least in the case of the last attack, the answer is simple - because Ranka accidentally told them to.

Last edited by glyph; 2008-09-07 at 09:51.
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Old 2008-09-07, 09:56   Link #485
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That blog post up XD

http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/09...ck-to-the-war/
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Old 2008-09-07, 10:00   Link #486
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not as funny as usual, seems that Crusader can't hold his anger towards ranka anymore,, but still a must read ^_^
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Old 2008-09-07, 10:20   Link #487
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Wohoo! What completes my weekly Macross experience is this. XD
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Old 2008-09-07, 10:32   Link #488
ipernorris
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Originally Posted by glyph View Post
You're reading too much into a rhethorical question by Leon while he's channeling the fellow in my avatar. Grace is just bemusedly answering his overblown rhethoric to herself "because they are freaking nuisances, is why". (I half expected her to quote Char and quip "because you brats are dumbass tools, is why")
To me it's quite clear that Grace meant that the humantradi's dream to expand in the galaxy was an obstacle to the Vajra so this is why they are attacking Earth. It would be pointless for that phrase to be there otherwise: it's just a hint to future plot developments. Regarding the reading too much into things I could also tell the same for you: you even recalled Char...

Quote:
It's confirmed by Grace's "hopes 'n dreams" scene that there is something on the planet that can give the owner control over the Galaxy, which Leon is not willing to share.
It was anticipated in episode 17, if I remember right, when Grace said to Luca that their purpose went beyond the control over the galaxy. Regarding that control they have it already, because in that same episode Luca observed that having the ability to make istant fold travel (without the fold dislocations) means to control the galaxy for the one who has such a technology in his hands. Grace and Leon are aiming for something bigger and I can only thing of some way of traveling across the entire universe.

Quote:
Also, humanity does not have some kind of manifest destiny to colonize the entire Galaxy over the corpses of other other sentient species, and to take their stuff, as Leon claims.
The humantradi's dream Leon was referring to was not that...
It is the one of colonizing other planets in the galaxy and living there in peace: the "over the corpses of other sentient species" is something you added up.

Quote:
As for _why_ the Vajra are attacking humanity, at least in the case of the last attack, the answer is simple - because Ranka accidentally told them to.
Yeah because the Vajra attacked only after Ranka ordered them?
You should rewatch this episode because it seems there is a REAL queen on Vajra's home planet and that queen isn't Ranka.

Last edited by ipernorris; 2008-09-07 at 10:47.
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Old 2008-09-07, 10:45   Link #489
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Originally Posted by indr0008 View Post
not as funny as usual, seems that Crusader can't hold his anger towards ranka anymore,, but still a must read ^_^
Yeah think its been a while since I read something so anti a character that was barely in the episode .
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Old 2008-09-07, 10:48   Link #490
KiNA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THAT blog
Hime wasn’t screaming because Ozma was right, but probably because he wasn’t protecting much of anything by flying any more. Brera was better able to protect Ranka, Ozma was able to protect Cathy, Mikhail was able to protect Klein, but Alto cannot protect Sheryl no matter how many times he sorties. All three of them Ozma, Brera, and Mikhail were flying to protect the person they loved. Alto can’t even do that, so how much of a man is he when the person he cares about is dying and hime can’t do more than give Sheryl the courage to sing and die?
Cant put it any better
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Old 2008-09-07, 10:54   Link #491
glyph
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Originally Posted by ipernorris View Post
To me it's quite clear that Grace meant that the humantradi's dream to expand in the galaxy was an obstacle to the Vajra so this is why they are attacking Earth. It would be pointless for that phrase to be there otherwise: it's just a hint to future plot developments. Regarding the reading too much into things I could also tell the same for you: you even recalled Char...
The reference is clear enough with Leon's Naze?! Naze?! demagogue speech, theatrical gesticulating, and Grace sniggering at him behind his back. The point is Grace is having some fun at Leon's expense, it's not meant to be a serious answer as to the Vajra's motives.

Quote:
It was anticipated in episode 17, if I remember right, when Grace said to Luca that their purpose went beyond the control over the galaxy. Regarding that control they have it already, because in that same episode Luca observed that having the ability to make istant fold travel (without the fold dislocations) means to control the galaxy for the one who has such a technology in his hands. Grace and Leon are aiming for something bigger and I can only thing of some way of traveling across the entire universe.
Grace said _Bilrer's_ hypothetical goal of controlling the galaxy through monopolizing a galactic fold railroad is not what they are aiming for. They never said Leon and Grace are not trying for a more ambitious and ...direct way of doing the same.

And the "rule the Galaxy" thing is something Leon's hired guns said.

Also, do you think they would have revealed their real plan to Luca at that point if they wanted his cooperation?

"Join us, Luca, and together we will rule the Galaxy as cybergoddess, puffball afro guy and shouta!"

Quote:
The humantradi's dream Leon was referring to was not that...
It is the one of colonizing other planets in the galaxy and living there in peace: the "over the corpses of other sentient species" is something you add up.
No, it's something you suggested by saying that Frontier has a right to claim Vajra territory, and they have no right to retaliate (although I doubt this is what the conflict is about up to now), and that Leon and Grace somehow have a right to claim whatever it is the Vajra are keeping on the planet because they are an "obstacle" to humanity's Manifest Destiny.

Quote:
Yeah because the Vajra attacked only after Ranka ordered them?
You should rewatch this episode because it seems there is a REAL queen on Vajra's home planet and that queen isn't Ranka.
That queen had nothing to do with the last rampage on Frontier, however. (And if the hints given so far are true, she's Ranshe Mei, who is human, not Vajra).

Last edited by glyph; 2008-09-07 at 11:33.
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Old 2008-09-07, 11:02   Link #492
golthin
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Yeah think its been a while since I read something so anti a character that was barely in the episode .
that guy has just pure hatrad for Ranka!
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Old 2008-09-07, 11:11   Link #493
indr0008
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that guy has just pure hatrad for Ranka!
an accumulated one i must say, u can see from his early posts, he was not that anti ranka
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Old 2008-09-07, 11:21   Link #494
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Maybe before he was restrained by their blog's generally kind treatment for green-haired lolis (or pseudo-lolis).
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Old 2008-09-07, 11:42   Link #495
sekidousai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight
Quote:
Originally Posted by indr0008
not as funny as usual, seems that Crusader can't hold his anger towards ranka anymore,, but still a must read ^_^
Yeah think its been a while since I read something so anti a character that was barely in the episode .
Lols. thats the reason why i don't tend to rely on some anime review specially when the reviewer reaches a certain bias, anyways it hurts their own credibility.

Well i have just finished watching episode 22 and as i have thougt there were people "looking at the left" haha leftists. Well it's not like they don't have a reason as they were doing it as an act of rebellion against the power hungry Leon, I'm getting a feel of the Arcangel(Gundam seed) from the quarter^^. Well certainly nothing good will happen under the Leon administration. He certainly makes good use of the peoples anger and hate to further his own ambitions, or should i say "adding more wood for the fire". Also a lot of people are now branding Ranka as a traitor (Luca, Leon etc) when certainly we know that she couldn't have that kind of intention and in the end she will still be frontiers best hope . or else Son Goku will arrive and eliminate the Vajra for us. And lols Alto just didn't join just for the sake of always in disagreeing(), And Birler i thought he was a nice guy but there is still no clear explaination about his actions It could be that he was forced by Leon. Anyways the whole episode is about reaching a fork in life and choosing ones path, and i think it will not be a simple case of right or wrong since the world is not made up of black and white . but certailnly we know who will be right in the end...
As for SherylxAlto, Sheryl gets more ++ points since the other rival is currently out of comission and could easily finish it straight to the end. But then again Kawamori might pull the carpet on us just when we are feeling comfortable. Well at least the suspense is still good enough to tell some of us to hold our breaths, I pity both the character's fans (specially rabid Sheryl's fans) if things don't go their way. And here i thought Kawamori would'nt live to see tomorrow when he revealed that Sheryl is dying.

Last edited by sekidousai; 2008-09-07 at 12:37.
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Old 2008-09-07, 11:49   Link #496
golthin
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And lols Alto just didn't join just for the sake of always in disagreeing().
pretty good comments with the exeption of that one, it is obvious that he stayed behind for sheryl and as someone analyzed, he shows anger in the VF-171 cockpit because everyone can protect their loved one with their flying but he can't!
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Old 2008-09-07, 11:52   Link #497
sekidousai
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pretty good comments with the exeption of that one, it is obvious that he stayed behind for sheryl and as someone analyzed, he shows anger in the VF-171 cockpit because everyone can protect their loved one with their flying but he can't!
lols.... i was not really serious when i said that . i was just quoting Ozma and wesley. and there's a lot things that he did that i dont agree with like shooting down Luca with killing intent.
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Old 2008-09-07, 12:04   Link #498
ipernorris
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The point is Grace is having some fun at Leon's expense, it's not meant to be a serious answer as to the Vajra's motives.
She's making fun of him because she knows the answer to that questions and it's as simple as that.

Quote:
Grace said _Bilrer's_ hypothetical goal of controlling the galaxy through monopolizing a galactic fold railroad is not what they are aiming for. They never said Leon and Grace are not trying for a more ambitious and ...direct way of doing the same.
No she said they aim at something "beyond that", according to gg sub. As I trust that scanlation for me something beyond galaxy control is universe control so they wouldn't go looking for something they already have, which is the fold quartz which allows fold travels without dislocations.

Quote:
Also, do you think they would have revealed their real plan to Luca at that point if they wanted his cooperation?
No they haven't, at least they haven't shown us they revealed anything.

Quote:
No, it's something you suggested by saying that Frontier has a right to claim Vajra territory, and they have no right to retaliate (although I doubt this is what the conflict is about up to now), and that Leon and Grace somehow have a right to claim whatever it is the Vajra are keeping on the planet because they are an "obstacle" to humanity's Manifest Destiny.
WHAT DID I SAY?!?
I said humantradis have the right to annihilate Vajra at this point, no matter what the reasons the Vajra have for massacring millions of humans. As the Vajra's reason isn't something as nice as "you bad humantradis attacked us first" then Vajra are the bad guys along with Grace and Leon. Besides I never said Grace has any right to claim a thing and you clearly didn't understand a thing of what I wrote.
The "obstacle" Grace was referring to was the dream of humantradis of colonizing a planet and living there peacefully being an obstacle for the Vajra. This is the third time I repeat this very same thing.

Quote:
That queen had nothing to do with the last rampage on Frontier, however. (And if the hints given so far are true, she's Ranshe Mei, who is human, not Vajra).
The Vajra started attacking humans long before Ranka even knew about her "affinity" with the Vajra so you can't make a single episode as the rule. Besides you're stating the obvious because if Ranka is called "little Queen" it's for a reason...
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Old 2008-09-07, 12:25   Link #499
sekidousai
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Originally Posted by ipernorris
I said humantradis have the right to annihilate Vajra at this point
Since when did humans/tradis earn the right to annihilate any living species!?
I've also just finished watching ep08 of xam'd and

"Failing to value the life of others cheapens your own" is what i'd like to say .

If you don't really mean it, it would be best to rephrase that comment
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Old 2008-09-07, 12:54   Link #500
ipernorris
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Since when did humans/tradis earn the right to annihilate any living species!?
I've also just finished watching ep08 of xam'd and

"Failing to value the life of others cheapens your own" is what i'd like to say .

If you don't really mean it, it would be best to rephrase that comment
What about reading my other posts as well? In those posts I clearly stated that the
Vajra, no matter what is their reason, they're massacring millions of lives and this cannot be justified in any way possible. Because they're making a genocide the humans have the right to defend themselves by wiping the Vajra out. We shouldn't see the matter under our normal peace and love POV, but from POV of persons who lost their beloved ones and are on verge of death. I'm sure very few people here wouldn't want to make the Vajra becoming space dust.
If what Grace said is true (and there is no reason to believe otherwise) then it means Vajra are attacking the humans to stop them from colonizing planets around the galaxy, especially in the Vajra's territory of course. It would make the Vajra's position even worse for me.
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