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Old 2009-09-15, 00:25   Link #801
DangerMouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJR View Post
Why not? I'd guess that they knew their time was up (i.e. even if the company continued running, the core would move on since they can't make what they want), so they were intent on making the type of show that represents them best. Suffice it to say, Gonzo hadn't attempted anything like this since the ill-fated Mardock Scramble, so Shangri-La is in part a return to their roots.
Agreed it had FAR been too long and I greatly thank them for it and hope those staying will also recognize it's importance having done a new one and will go back to it again, this was the type of show that I fell in love with Gonzo studio for in the first place. While it's not a mass-market aimed show and as such won't light up the charts like shows made primarily for selling and/or selling merchandise I seriously doubt the show was unsuccessful in Japan (they even had more channels join in to air the show from the beginning during it's run) nor to the level KiryuuKazumanosuke likes to think, not to mention the additional popularity in Japan the show likely got for the specific stars involved given those involved in the production. And I'm sure they were aware they were making a science fiction epic rather than something like K-On that is expected to top the sales charts. The show will also likely have a decent amount of legs like many scifi series that sell by word-of-mouth between fans more than the media.

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Originally Posted by TJR View Post
Anyway, Plan B was simple. With GDH sold and reorganized, they left to start Lambda Film. And yeah, Lambda is the spiritual successor of "Gonzo before they became big". As before, they intend to innovate and challenge the worldwide market. They also intend to raise their own capital, which allows a studio to retain creative control and property rights.

Where Gonzo goes next is someone else's problem.
Yeah, them getting back to that spirit and those intentions and getting back to making what they really want to create have me extremely looking forwards to what Lambda brings to the table and the main skilled staff that started things off perhaps getting more hands-on again which could be another real treat of this new studio as well.

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2009-09-15 at 01:19.
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Old 2009-09-15, 11:38   Link #802
KiryuuKazumanosuke
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I seriously doubt the show was unsuccessful in Japan (they even had more channels join in to air the show from the beginning during it's run)
That's not really how it works. Unless you're Naruto, Gundam, or some other huge ratings puller, you're actually paying the stations for the right to air your program. The TV broadcast is advertising for the DVDs (Or Blu-Rays now, I guess) and whatever other neat little merchandise you're willing to sell. Now we know the DVD sales for Shangri were so bad they didn't even chart. (Source: here, which seems reliable enough; I've seen similar figures quoted elsewhere.)

So unless you think that they sold 50,000 copies of the OST, it was a horrible, company-killing flop. Not that Gonzo wasn't already on its deathbed, but Shangri La was the final cancer that pushed it into its grave.
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Old 2009-09-15, 17:14   Link #803
Zwei
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I guess the ending was predictable but I got some questions I need to be answered, before I can judge it.

How the hell did Sayoko survive that?

How did Mi-ko and the children appear before them? Let alone curing her illness that easily after having to fight it all her life.

I also don't like the fact that Kuniko's grandmother and the bald guy got away with it that easily, I at least expected them to die doing something heroic after all they've done, but no....disappointed I was.

Also, Sayoko and Mikuni? After killing innocent people for no reason(Mikuni) and Sayoko a sadistic masochist, who experimented on alot of people, got away with it easily as well.
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Old 2009-09-15, 17:51   Link #804
DangerMouse
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Ah, you meant in terms of only sales success, I was leaning towards viewership, critical success/value and what must have been a decent sized audience for them to add even more channels mid-run especially if they were paying for the air time, and ofcourse to a smaller extent sales hence my point on the priorities when making this kind of niche but hardcore audience series. However my main point was that you do not make a scifi epic expecting it top the sales charts like a mainstream sales magnet show, that's always been the catch-22 with good scifi, smaller audience and yet it often requires a good sized budget.

Quite telling of the general state of what's selling DVDs best currently and something that hurts Shangri-La commercially, Saki sold 7th on that list which means it outsold a whole bunch of shows that I think many consumers would consider more successful products including Hellsing whose TV series was considered quite successful in all facets both commercially and critically (despite how they couldn't start the main manga storyline at the time and as such had to make up a last minute villain for an artificial finale). It also outsold Full Metal Panic a series popular enough to spawn 3 full TV series. This is not to say that Saki isn't any good, it just highlights that two of the relatively bigger named anime TV series out there had their volume 1's outsold by Saki.

Still, I'm with TJR, given that before this show even began production they knew where the company would be at this point and what stage of re-organization and funding they'd be in so I'm thankful they've given us one more taste of "old Gonzo" before they either disappear and we only have the new Lambda Film which will be picking the up the true spirit of the studio at it's peak anyway, or we'll still have a new Gonzo that may still do the occasional ambitious projects funded by the commercial success of moe or other mainstream stuff.
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Old 2009-09-15, 20:57   Link #805
KiryuuKazumanosuke
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So you're defining success as "an undefined number of people may have seen an ep or two during its TV run, then the company prettymuch went bankrupt."

I guess if you define success that way, then Shangri La was a success, but it seems kind of mediocre. "Not ONE of our staff members was decapitated by a rabid sentient meat-cleaver during the course of this's creation."
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Old 2009-09-15, 21:56   Link #806
golthin
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Originally Posted by Zwei View Post
I guess the ending was predictable but I got some questions I need to be answered, before I can judge it.

How the hell did Sayoko survive that?

How did Mi-ko and the children appear before them? Let alone curing her illness that easily after having to fight it all her life.

I also don't like the fact that Kuniko's grandmother and the bald guy got away with it that easily, I at least expected them to die doing something heroic after all they've done, but no....disappointed I was.

Also, Sayoko and Mikuni? After killing innocent people for no reason(Mikuni) and Sayoko a sadistic masochist, who experimented on alot of people, got away with it easily as well.
many unfair and amazing things happened in this show. gonzo's writers didn't even try to explain how Sayako survived without even breaking anything, still try to explains the thing that Kuniko was doing. It seems a lot of forgiveness at the end for people like Sayako and mikuni.
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Old 2009-09-16, 02:51   Link #807
DangerMouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiryuuKazumanosuke View Post
So you're defining success as "an undefined number of people may have seen an ep or two during its TV run, then the company prettymuch went bankrupt."

I guess if you define success that way, then Shangri La was a success, but it seems kind of mediocre. "Not ONE of our staff members was decapitated by a rabid sentient meat-cleaver during the course of this's creation."
Quite over-dramatic which is what I'm saying, as you also pointed out they were "bankrupt" before this series started, the re-organization of the company followed by the de-listing of the company from the stock market happened before this series or Saki even made it on air, we could also even say Saki's pretty far up on their Volume 1 sales charts but even that couldn't help them because they were already in trouble and will need to fully fix the foundations before even commercially aimed shows will help them. Shangri-La would have had to have been their most successful show of all time to make an impact on the company's state. Though if they decided to pay for yet another station to join the airings, they must have had a good enough audience coming back each week to want to pay for even more especially with money so tight.

These are also the hardcore and/or niche type of series that I've always felt these studios generally tend to make more for attempting to improve the studio's name (should the show be critically successful) and/or showcase ambition or creativity or in some cases totally "studio original works," over sales figures or cashing in on a hot manga even though those will generally sell better in terms of making money. While it has some flaws so it may not be as strong as their very best works in this area, if they were to somehow get back on their feet somehow I think having done another excellent show of this style after all this time would be of good value.

Speaking outside of sales, despite Lambda being the more intriguing studio for obvious reasons and the one I'm extremely excited for as an old-school Gonzo fan, Gonzo impressed me by producing a big series with an intriguing story and interesting and exciting developments like Shangri-La with both a rather big name successful staff which is generally more expensive ofcourse and production values that really do not hint at the financial troubles behind the scenes against all odds despite the current situation that befell the company as the show entered production. Outside of 2 or 3 episodes that suffered either some time or budget constraints most were really quite lavish with some great developments and surprises. If some of the other big remaining creative staff stick around I'd be looking forwards to them making some sort of comeback to give us even more studios that aren't afraid to do something more risky/ambitious as long as Gonzo doesn't totally lose the rest of that part of them while making commercially viable shows to support themselves in between, rather than getting into the rut of being somewhere in the middle for far too long (along with the other factors often discussed that contributed).

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2009-09-16 at 12:26.
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Old 2009-09-18, 00:57   Link #808
klare
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Spoiler for eps 24 (final):


now my series overall thoughts:
- this is a good show, not excellent but it is entertaining, has a solid story and some interesting characters
- it is hard to be categorised under any genre as it contains sci-fi, magic, action and other elements
- i have to admit i dont understand much about the carbon economy, Medusa, the purpose of Atlas (need re-watch form the start again someday)
- also must mention the songs are good, especially the 2nd ED and the slow version of the OP
- my favourite character: Karin
- my favourite eps: the one which the Metal Age attacked Atlas from air (i think 14?)
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Old 2009-09-18, 04:15   Link #809
BrokenWingz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post

Speaking outside of sales, despite Lambda being the more intriguing studio for obvious reasons and the one I'm extremely excited for as an old-school Gonzo fan, Gonzo impressed me by producing a big series with an intriguing story and interesting and exciting developments like Shangri-La with both a rather big name successful staff which is generally more expensive ofcourse and production values that really do not hint at the financial troubles behind the scenes against all odds despite the current situation that befell the company as the show entered production. Outside of 2 or 3 episodes that suffered either some time or budget constraints most were really quite lavish with some great developments and surprises. If some of the other big remaining creative staff stick around I'd be looking forwards to them making some sort of comeback to give us even more studios that aren't afraid to do something more risky/ambitious as long as Gonzo doesn't totally lose the rest of that part of them while making commercially viable shows to support themselves in between, rather than getting into the rut of being somewhere in the middle for far too long (along with the other factors often discussed that contributed).
Anything with more Mahiro Maeda involvement is a plus in my book. One of the few OVA I wouldn't mind a TV series would be blue sub no.6, let’s hope somewhere along the future they will decided to revisit their older roots. In general I prefer creative and original work over adaption, it has always been the creative side of anime, the medium to turn imaginative idea into art. Limitation of live action are often compromise by larger budget but essentially it requires something of a Hollywood level to invoke true art.

Quote:
Originally Posted by golthin
many unfair and amazing things happened in this show. gonzo's writers didn't even try to explain how Sayako survived without even breaking anything, still try to explains the thing that Kuniko was doing. It seems a lot of forgiveness at the end for people like Sayako and mikuni.
assuming there are people to avenge those who were killed by Mikuni. Somewhere along the line Mikuni illness, her ability to crush people who are dishonest is shown to be an involuntary part of her illness. Something unwanted rather than malice. Could you really hold her responsible? Not to say she isn't but it is something I can sympathize with. Beside that issue it was rather comical, did anyone take it seriously?
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Old 2009-09-19, 15:07   Link #810
DangerMouse
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Originally Posted by BrokenWingz View Post
Anything with more Mahiro Maeda involvement is a plus in my book. One of the few OVA I wouldn't mind a TV series would be blue sub no.6, let’s hope somewhere along the future they will decided to revisit their older roots. In general I prefer creative and original work over adaption, it has always been the creative side of anime, the medium to turn imaginative idea into art. Limitation of live action are often compromise by larger budget but essentially it requires something of a Hollywood level to invoke true art.
Me too I like so many of the works he's been heavily involved in and his design work and "world-building" on the art side for both Blue Sub and Last Exile for example as Gonzo was building up were so in depth. Just looking at even his list of contributions on ANN it would be great if the man got more heavily involved again, so many works on his list really stand out on the extra detail of the design work or in the final look of the animation. Same here, I like both but I prefer originals. When they're given the proper care there's just a different feel or "air" when an in depth creative original anime work is built from the ground up for the medium and comes together well.
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Old 2009-09-20, 15:56   Link #811
drobertbaker
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Originally Posted by klare View Post
now my series overall thoughts:
- this is a good show, not excellent but it is entertaining, has a solid story and some interesting characters
- it is hard to be categorised under any genre as it contains sci-fi, magic, action and other elements
- i have to admit i dont understand much about the carbon economy, Medusa, the purpose of Atlas (need re-watch form the start again someday)
- also must mention the songs are good, especially the 2nd ED and the slow version of the OP
- my favourite character: Karin
- my favourite eps: the one which the Metal Age attacked Atlas from air (i think 14?)
I agree completely with all these comments.

I kept hoping and expecting that Kuniko would sweep me up in her role as wise and mature leader, but I felt that she never grew into that character.

In the end it was Karin who saved the world while Kuniko destroyed just about everything that could be destroyed and then ends with an optimistic "atashi no SHANGRI-LA" consisting of a big empty space 'cause she leveled everything else.
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Last edited by drobertbaker; 2009-09-20 at 17:59.
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Old 2009-09-20, 22:26   Link #812
Alchemist007
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Ahh just saw the rest of it. Cool overall. Though I was hoping something more would come from Ryoko...as opposed to being a deranged puppet. Perhaps a bit more story on the Himiko thing would've been nice too. Binbo Klaris and Zhang were oooooold! Karin-tan was super cute and finally got answers.

Also, Sayako is officially a Spartan now.
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Old 2009-09-21, 11:28   Link #813
wandering-dreamer
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Finally finished up the series and it was okay. I like the middle episodes the best but once they started adding in all the mysticism I didn't like it as much. I feel that the plot could have been stronger if it was more of a sci-fi storyline, like the whole Himeko stuff just didn't seem to fit in.
Overall it was a nice show but not one of my favorites, and I hope Gonzo does more anime soon, they're probably one of my favorite studios.
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Old 2009-09-21, 14:48   Link #814
DangerMouse
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Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer View Post
Finally finished up the series and it was okay. I like the middle episodes the best but once they started adding in all the mysticism I didn't like it as much. I feel that the plot could have been stronger if it was more of a sci-fi storyline, like the whole Himeko stuff just didn't seem to fit in.
Overall it was a nice show but not one of my favorites, and I hope Gonzo does more anime soon, they're probably one of my favorite studios.
I can see this point, I was initially drawn to the show for those very same scifi elements that were the main focus for most of the show like I'd imagine a lot of the audience anyway, so while I think they did the mysticism stuff pretty well I think they already had us with the scifi theme which would have made for a more razor focused tale than adding more to the mix and having to try to integrate the two.

If anyone's familiar with it I think it combined the two separate parts better than another show I really enjoyed in Gasaraki though, which had an awesome scifi mecha part but had a mystical side that was really unfulfilling.

Agreed, Gonzo is still one of my favorites as well.

I agree drobertbaker, I liked Kuniko a lot though I too expected them to go even further with her character based on the early going. Though perhaps looking back on what they did have time to get through in developing her as a leader who gets personally involved and at times is quite thoughtful, especially when re-evaluating things after big events, they might have need a time skip or more spread out events to really have time to turn her into a more wise and seasoned leader.
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Old 2009-09-21, 20:16   Link #815
DangerMouse
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My import of OST 2 came today and it is excellent.

28 more tracks including a ton of the great fast tracks, mood tracks, and those beautiful wispy vocal and/or piano and strings tracks along with a few surprises
Spoiler:

It also had both of the tracks I had wanted from the first OST, the military action theme and the Metal-Age mission exploration/travel music.

Fantastic disc, will always love this show's soundtrack, been following Hitomi Kuroishi since Last Exile's also stunning music, looking forwards to her next show.

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2009-09-21 at 20:43.
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Old 2009-11-04, 17:30   Link #816
aorta
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Is this show a criticism of Agenda 21?
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Old 2009-11-04, 20:45   Link #817
drobertbaker
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No, it's just a show.
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Old 2009-11-05, 23:07   Link #818
RECyberGurl
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Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
Agreed it had FAR been too long and I greatly thank them for it and hope those staying will also recognize it's importance having done a new one and will go back to it again, this was the type of show that I fell in love with Gonzo studio for in the first place. While it's not a mass-market aimed show and as such won't light up the charts like shows made primarily for selling and/or selling merchandise I seriously doubt the show was unsuccessful in Japan (they even had more channels join in to air the show from the beginning during it's run) nor to the level KiryuuKazumanosuke likes to think, not to mention the additional popularity in Japan the show likely got for the specific stars involved given those involved in the production. And I'm sure they were aware they were making a science fiction epic rather than something like K-On that is expected to top the sales charts. The show will also likely have a decent amount of legs like many scifi series that sell by word-of-mouth between fans more than the media.



Yeah, them getting back to that spirit and those intentions and getting back to making what they really want to create have me extremely looking forwards to what Lambda brings to the table and the main skilled staff that started things off perhaps getting more hands-on again which could be another real treat of this new studio as well.

Gonzo is the BEST! I don't know why people always diss them. They have the best character designs and do everything the right way (or at least the way I want to see it).
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Old 2009-11-09, 16:12   Link #819
frubam
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I was unimpressed with this show. It wasn't 'bad', but it just didn't feel entertaining most of the time, despite me watching it all. The only thing that was above the 'average' level was the music. I don't want to get too wordy as to what problems I had with it, but THEE major thing was the fact that Ryoko knew EVERYTHING that was happening to ALL the main chars, which took most of the intrigue out of the show. Ryoko is never taken by surprise or shocked about anything which made everything Metal-age was doing against them mostly boring, esp since she was pulling the strings practically the entire show(if it was subtly, like for instance, the Takehito being a traitor, then that'd been okay, but it wasn't, which made her so boring to watch, esp as the main villian)
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Old 2009-11-09, 16:18   Link #820
ZippyDSM
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
I was unimpressed with this show. It wasn't 'bad', but it just didn't feel entertaining most of the time, despite me watching it all. The only thing that was above the 'average' level was the music. I don't want to get too wordy as to what problems I had with it, but THEE major thing was the fact that Ryoko knew EVERYTHING that was happening to ALL the main chars, which took most of the intrigue out of the show. Ryoko is never taken by surprise or shocked about anything which made everything Metal-age was doing against them mostly boring, esp since she was pulling the strings practically the entire show(if it was subtly, like for instance, the Takehito being a traitor, then that'd been okay, but it wasn't, which made her so boring to watch, esp as the main villian)
TO much gimmick not enough substance and Kiddy girl is adding up to be even worse..... even if you watch it as a comedy show....it's just.....
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