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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 33 27.97%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 30.51%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 20 16.95%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 9.32%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 6.78%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.69%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.69%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 6 5.08%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-12, 17:07   Link #441
sekidousai
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Quote:
Kimikiss shipping wars was nothing compared to True Tears, probably because the result was so fucking obvious, lmao @ the rage posts and claims of Canvas 2 ending after the last episode. True Tears got heated a few times but Macross Frontier has gone several levels above that, but it did get a lot of in depth discussion, analysis and breakdowns from yours truly and several other Hiromi fans. Been a good year for triangle fans with Ef into True Tears into Macross Frontier... looks like nothing will take its place this upcoming season... lol @ Vampire Knight and no Skip Beat won't simply because it won't end and well watch the show (which should be fantastic!) and you'll see.
lolz... TrueTears... i understand how the shippers could go crazy over it.... just when you think you've won.... ^^.... i feel for Noe and Jun... after messing his bike and all the tragedy.... they were practically beaten up/mugged/karate chopped ^^..... i mean the series ended with her in a crutch and bandages....

Last edited by sekidousai; 2008-09-12 at 17:23.
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Old 2008-09-12, 22:22   Link #442
TwilightHack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
I was shipping for restaurant girl, though I knew she didn't have a snow ball's chance in hell. It was rather depressing for me in that regard. I knew the ending from the 1st episode onward, and all I could do was support the loser.
Heck yeah! Even though I liked Hiromi, I had a soft spot for Aiko, Ep7 ftw.

---

Anyways I'm curious. It seems they were living in peace with the Vajra the entire time... then all of a sudden they go crazy on the 117 research fleet.

At least we know the research fleet wasn't a pushover and didn't go down without a fight... but they got swamped judging from the ep.
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Last edited by TwilightHack; 2008-09-12 at 22:33.
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Old 2008-09-13, 08:48   Link #443
hai_san
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After watching ep 23 i can understand why the shipp war explodes, after ep 21 almost everyone said Ranka&Alto pairing is finished, the Sheryl shippers already declared themselves as "winners", now at ep 23 the Ranka shippers have a comeback stating Sheryl has no chance because Alto "SAYS" he loves Ranka, which he didnt...

The development of the triangle just went back and forth, all i see in this ep that Alto only explained the bond/relation he has with Ranka by meeting her but what kind of feeling these are not clearly explained so it could be brotherly love, romatic love or even fatherly love(improbably but well who knows/jk), he didnt answer at all. So all in all i say "It didnt end till it really did end" so shippers ganbatte there is still 2 ep left
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Old 2008-09-13, 09:17   Link #444
kilroy0097
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Good episode. I have only one comment. The scene on the rooftop of the hospital.

GG Subs and other people says that the translation from Klan is, "Alto, Is that your love?". People have been spinning that to mean all sorts of things. I was discussing it on IRC and GP says that just like Sheryl misunderstood the comment from hearing only part of the conversation, the audience is also meant to misunderstand the wording.

I'm 99% convinced that wording implies a different meaning.

"Alto, Is that your desire?" meaning "Alto, Are you sure you want to do that?"

This is in response to Alto saying he is willing to kill Ranka to protect Frontier and the people and there should be the subtext of also believe Sheryl.

I have stood up for Ranka quite a bit over the series so don't jump my throat for saying the above. I'm not taking sides. The conversation simply makes much more sense in that way.

Edit add: Oh a quick add. I believe that the reasoning he gave up on the roof, while rather hard to decipher meant to me the following: His dream has always been to fly. Protecting Ranka and hence joining SMS gave him a real life reason that wasn't his own desire to actually get into a cockpit. He was rationalizing his own desires by masking them with the perceived want to protect Ranka.

Ok that's it.
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Old 2008-09-13, 09:18   Link #445
Lostdreams
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I just watched the sub ver.
It's really sad, basically Alto was acting in front of Sheryl, pretending to love her and Sheryl knew that. Even she said at the end I knew it, and when they were talking about kindness she was really sad inside because she was abusing Alto's kindness. In the end, everything Alto has done so far was for Ranka. Alto's such a f@@g0t
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Old 2008-09-13, 09:54   Link #446
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yeah, no way in hell they are purposely putting Sheryl in such misery without giving her a good ending
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Old 2008-09-13, 10:05   Link #447
golthin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilroy0097 View Post
Good episode. I have only one comment. The scene on the rooftop of the hospital.

GG Subs and other people says that the translation from Klan is, "Alto, Is that your love?". People have been spinning that to mean all sorts of things. I was discussing it on IRC and GP says that just like Sheryl misunderstood the comment from hearing only part of the conversation, the audience is also meant to misunderstand the wording.

I'm 99% convinced that wording implies a different meaning.

"Alto, Is that your desire?" meaning "Alto, Are you sure you want to do that?"
You know that Japanese has Many words to mean "DESIRE" [願望][所願][望み] just to mention a few and "AI"[愛] is not one of them!
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Old 2008-09-13, 10:21   Link #448
daimonth
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Sheryl has painted Alto in her own color. If you realized Altos character development this episode then you'll realize what the conversation mean. Altos decision is for the sake of his love for everyone, Sheryl, Ranka and Frontier.
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Old 2008-09-13, 11:06   Link #449
DragoonKain3
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I'm actually quite surprised you're also on the BreraXRanka ship Crisis, since you don't mention much of it. (Although you being mainly an AltoXSheryl supporter, maybe I shoulnd't be? ) There was one other poster who also insisted that Brera and Ranka were just childhood friends, but I don't think s/he posts much in the threads anymore.

Me? Shouldn't be a surprise, since they've been giving osana-najimi vibes ever since they first met, and I've pretty much said they're my second ship behind MikhailXKlan way back in the romance thread. And now that MikhailXKlan is pretty much sunk, they're the only sliver of hope left for an osana-najimi ending in Macross.

Although I do wonder, what happend to AltoXOnii-chan, Crisis? I'd say, this episode opened up the possiblity of Alto going back to Kabuki acting, if you know what I mean...
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Old 2008-09-13, 11:18   Link #450
glyph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Although I do wonder, what happend to AltoXOnii-chan, Crisis? I'd say, this episode opened up the possiblity of Alto going back to Kabuki acting, if you know what I mean...
I think Yasaburo's aim is not so much to get Alto to go back to acting, as to get him to let go of his hatred of his father (which has happened this episode when Alto looks at the father and is not filled with rage as usual, recognizing he is not some kind of monster but just a vulnerable old man) and reconcille with him (which has not, which is why Yasaburo says it was a start). Getting him to abandon his dreams and go back to Kabuki is the easiest (but not necessarily the best) way to achieve this.

Although Alto might want to consider taking on a less risky kind of work when the world is at peace and he settles down with the woman he loves under his blue sky, and leave his flying to a hobby.

Last edited by glyph; 2008-09-13 at 12:09.
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Old 2008-09-13, 11:43   Link #451
Supah Em
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
We prefer the term wincest.
Which is way better than incest because it is made of, guess what, pure win!

While in other series it may have been somewhat easy to predict pairings ( Kimikiss's KouichixMao was so effin obvious that it was painful watching them deny each other )

While Sheryl fans may say that this is the final fake out and Ranka fans saying that this is THE turning point of the series, one may wonder, how can you justify these claims?

- Sheryl has not used her "Super Move" yet, as Ranka did around episode 12/13 so we may take it into consideration. However, most series' losing girls have been shot down even before they can use it. Isurugi Noe from True Tears is example(For those who have watched it, the "Tree Jump" is not a super move, but rather a moronic one )

- With few episodes left, I am expecting that we will be given a crash course on what the series' mysteries (Vajra, Macross Galaxy, Bilrer's intentions, NUNS, Leon's shizznit, etc.).

- Many hints have been given throughout the series that proves(or rather express) that Alto has feelings for Ranka. I won't point those in fear of being clobbered by rabid Sheryl fans but we all know that hints existed, even if we deny it . However, those hints are sometimes intricately hidden and requires some rewatching to actually notice. The fact that these are sometimes unnoticeable creates a striking resemblance to Canvas 2's layout. No, the two series are way different from each other but the way they presented their hints makes one think that Frontier might pull out the classic C2 ending.

- I also can't erase the possibility that Alto will be the greatest ass for the entire Macross fanbase community by not choosing someone in the end(Unless a season 2 is in the works, which is quite plausible at the moment). I don't care how EPIC the ending is done, if it involves something like Alto being paired with his ass, sorry sir but NO.



EDIT: SHERYL GAMBATTE!
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Old 2008-09-13, 12:02   Link #452
cheesie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supah Em
I won't point those in fear of being clobbered by rabid Sheryl fans but we all know that hints existed, even if we deny it .
Well, it's a shame that you feel discouraged in posting your thoughts about Alto x Ranka, but do feel free to do so, as the forum is in dire need of a balance at the moment.

On Alto joining SMS to protect Ranka, whether he was latching on the most convenient and easiest way to convince himself he wasn't running away from Kabuki and that he finally found a reason, instead of desire, to join SMS (which will make sense considering how largely disinterested and impersonal he was with her from the moment when she first moved to his school) or whether he truly has feelings for her, both open legitimate doors for discussions, really. These few episodes is Alto's story arc weaved in with Sheryl's story arc, and both of them are going through significant period of development, so I believe there's so much flowing underneath the surface of the easier but flimsy assumption of "Alto joined SMS just to protect Ranka." Most people don't give Alto enough credit, and I myself am guilty of that before, but once you figure out the depth of his talk with Klan and how it connects well with a lot of scenes, then you'll find that yes, Alto does have a heart, he IS aware of what's going on, he is more complicated than what people perceive him to be. (Ironically, one of the people who tends to misunderstand Alto the most are actually romance shippers, who saw the actions but never the motives.)
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Old 2008-09-13, 12:17   Link #453
DragoonKain3
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The bad part I feel about C2 is that those same clues that people show off as clues is more approriately interpreted as something non-romantic, as only someone with extremely tinted shipper glasses could have interpreted them as romantic.

And this is coming from who is potentially the biggest childhood friend shipper in the planet (and yes, I consider both lead heroines of C2 to be one).

Macross Frontier on the other hand, has those AltoXRanka clues to be only interpreted as romantic. And even now, the clues are laid that there's a good chance that Alto would choose Ranka in the end (exactly how big depends on who you ask). As such, I can't see in any way how either a Ranka or Sheryl end would be anything remotely close to the abomination that was C2, as IMO the triangle is done wonderfully in Frontier's case.

Heck, if there's any dispute as to if one's actions is familial or Romantic, it would be BreraXRanka, sad to say for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Sadly I can confirm this You just got her going right now, make it stop!
Why? Being 'delusional' has never been so much fun! For example...

*puts on shipper glasses*
Ranka's dad had a dark brown hair colour, while her she inherited her mom's green hair. So why does Brera look so out of place with his greyish blond hair, even before his 'cyborginization'?
*puts off shipper glasses*
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Old 2008-09-13, 12:26   Link #454
cheesie
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Why? Being 'delusional' has never been so much fun! For example...

*puts on shipper glasses*
Ranka's dad had a dark brown hair colour, while her she inherited her mom's green hair. So why does Brera look so out of place with his greyish blond hair, even before his 'cyborginization'?
*puts off shipper glasses*
I can't believe it. Y-You're right!
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Old 2008-09-13, 12:34   Link #455
Westlo
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Why? Being 'delusional' has never been so much fun! For example...
Well your example definitely provided some fun in the IRC room, lmao @ crisis going from I'm going to sleep to ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG. I cbf looking but Brera does have the same eye color as Ranka though right? Even if that was the case it's clearly cybernetic implants
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Old 2008-09-13, 13:01   Link #456
glyph
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Originally Posted by crisis View Post
Well, it's a shame that you feel discouraged in posting your thoughts about Alto x Ranka, but do feel free to do so, as the forum is in dire need of a balance at the moment.

On Alto joining SMS to protect Ranka, whether he was latching on the most convenient and easiest way to convince himself he wasn't running away from Kabuki and that he finally found a reason, instead of desire, to join SMS (which will make sense considering how largely disinterested and impersonal he was with her from the moment when she first moved to his school) or whether he truly has feelings for her, both open legitimate doors for discussions, really. These few episodes is Alto's story arc weaved in with Sheryl's story arc, and both of them are going through significant period of development, so I believe there's so much flowing underneath the surface of the easier but flimsy assumption of "Alto joined SMS just to protect Ranka." Most people don't give Alto enough credit, and I myself am guilty of that before, but once you figure out the depth of his talk with Klan and how it connects well with a lot of scenes, then you'll find that yes, Alto does have a heart, he IS aware of what's going on, he is more complicated than what people perceive him to be. (Ironically, one of the people who tends to misunderstand Alto the most are actually romance shippers, who saw the actions but never the motives.)
Yep, I think some people (including Sheryl) miss the context of the conversation, which is tbat what he believed to be his motivation for joining SMS (protect Ranka) was either a lie from the start, or no longer true, or at least no longer his priority of things he wants to protect.

He finally came to his conclusion on honest reflection for once, along with the realization that he doesn't really hate Frontier (which he saw as his prison) or his father (whom he saw as a gaoler),
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Old 2008-09-13, 13:09   Link #457
glyph
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Originally Posted by crisis View Post
I can't believe it. Y-You're right!
Hair color has nothing to do with genetics in Macross, if Family Jenius is any indication.

Bah, given Brera's heavy cyborg mods, he probably doesn't have his relevant parts intact anymore.
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Old 2008-09-13, 13:09   Link #458
Wesley84
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Starting long-winded viewership of Macross Frontier - 23...Now.

A vague flashback, and Bresra and Ranka are flying towards the Vajra Homeworld. I wouldn't be surprised if they were flying towards it for the next five episodes.

Leon is in a meeting with some old guys, who are arguing over their options. Leon tips his hand a bit with a smirk on his face, but it makes me wonder if Frontier's executive branch is allowed to have such secrets. How can he know something that they don't? Way to be suspicious jackass.

Alto's flying around with his new NUNs buddies. I like these two way more than Luca and Mikhail. They look like normal people for one thing, and have nice sense of humors. And yes Alto, I bet they know about the stupid curse, which automatically makes them braver than anyone in the SMS.

Frontier's paparazzti sucks. Hell, why isn't their government taking advantage of the rumors? They didn't mind using Sheryl and Ranka for PR before. Why stop now?

You know, the whole "Carry an oxygen mask"-thing reminds me of the canned air from Spaceballs.

...In that line of thinking, Megamaid would total kick Battlefrontier's ass.

Also, I hope they're making good use of their Zentradi population. If they don't need as much O2 to live, seal off certain areas for them to work in.

Alto and Sheryl cooking in the kitchen. Otherwise known as a huge waste of time...

Dreamed of being with a family? I call bullshit. She's had plenty of oppurtunity to get to know lots of people, but only complains about being alone.

Non-alcoholic? That won't stop Sheryl from getting drunk if she wants to get drunk. Wouldn't be the first time she bsed herself and everyone around her, although I'll be impressed if she fakes a hangover in the morning. Such persistence.

Sheryl's emotionally regressing to her childhood, just like Misa did at Mars.

Bresra has a smooth Operating System.

"Always worked" except that one time it didn't. Is Ranka pretending that didn't happen or are the show's writers?

Oi, hey, hey. You're leaving Ai-kun behind!

Dude, what kind of range does she have? There's been no indication she can hit lightyears, since the Vajra need to be relatively closeby to get any reaction out of them.

Bresra is a true Blues Man.

That's what they get for taking a sentimental moment. Cleaning Ai-kun off the Windshield will take some doing.

Mr. Briller, when did you die?

Give me a fucking break. I don't care how good a fucking pilot Alto is, what squadron he's in charge of. He's a pissy little Lieutanant. Are they giving all the NUNs pilots a little pep talk before sorting? I don't think so! And the fact that he doesn't even appreciate his own rank and his place as a fighter pilot, god, what an egotisical, self-centered, goddamn ACTOR!
At least ask why they're taking a particular interest in you, jackass!

So Vajra get it from space junk. Literally they seem to pick it right off of it. No need for refining or anything!

If they exist as a single conciousness, that means you have to address the entire speices.

Alto better watch out, because if what Leon is saying is true, he's about to have a billion giant insectoid fangirls knocking down his door any minute.

Shame on all of you for actually thinking Ranka simply wanted to return Ai-kun.

Ai-kun: Ranka get!

Wow, Bresra tearing shit up. He's way more believeable than Alto in the rescuing department.

Yes, Sheryl, of course you'd feel stronger without taking the medicine, because it's been a well known fact that the MEDICINE MAKES YOU FEEL LIKE SHIT. What in blazes are the actual symptons? Is witchcraft a placebo or something?

Kindness is not a sin, but it explains why she treats everyone, except Alto, like shit. She's literally following her personal Religion of Bitchiness.

Wow, dad was actually sick. Here I was thinking Alto's bro was bsing him.

See your dad off on his deathbed, asshole. You'd do it for Sheryl. Or rather the writers would have you do it.

I wouldn't mind being Nanase's nurse if she were a awake. Bandaged girls are hot.

See people. For the third and probably final time. Alto's an actor. There's no such thing as personal for him, because he has no personality. That includes whatever love life he adopts. It's all simple drama to him. Personally meaningless. All bullshit.

Lawnmower Man 3/4, starring Grace O'connor.

Alto's giving a speech. "It's not a lie if you believe it." - Bill Clinton The trick being you believe whatever you want as necessary.

Wasting water on a flower. Slap that kid!

Poor, poor, naive, Meltran. No, Klan, it's not love. It's his selfishiness as an actor.

Preview: Ooo! Nene eye-catch! Looking forward to it already!
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Old 2008-09-13, 13:13   Link #459
Tabris
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I liked the DYRL Kakizaki reference.
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Old 2008-09-13, 13:15   Link #460
monir
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Off-topic post to end the off-topic:

I think we have ventured quite off-topic in the last couple of pages. I'm also guilty of doing it myself. As an apology to the posters who wanted to talk about the episode at hand and it's content, but was unable to thus far, I've removed most of the off-topic posts in the last couple of pages to give a fresh start to the thread.

Please post in this thread only if you are going to discuss episode 23.
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