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Old 2008-09-17, 22:57   Link #1
Hunter
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[Manga] The Uchiha Madara Discussion Thread

This is an all purpose Uchiha Madara thread since the old one is now closed.
If you have opinions/ theories/questions about his personas, his identities, his claims, his actions or his goals this is where you want to post.
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Old 2008-09-17, 22:58   Link #2
Suna no tate
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I want to discuss a potential plot hole in the series. It revolves around this scene



Kisame recognizes the Mizukage of his village as Madara without any help. How can this be when he makes all of these statements?








(another translation reads, its not common for me to see 2 sharingan users in one day, but it differs)

Even more this is what Asuma says about Kisame upon first seeing him



If Madara was really the leader of the water village, then Asuma's statement makes no sense.

How madara can be the mizukage, be an Uchiha, have kisame under his leadership, yet kisame be a missing nin from the very same village, with the story still flowing forward.
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Old 2008-09-18, 00:00   Link #3
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Spoiler for save space:

For the first pic you posted, Kisame only said Madara, so maybe Madara has never stated that his last name is Uchiha to Kisame, or to his village (sorry, can't think of it at the moment). This is a stretch, but who knows. And all that other stuff that you posted came before, and possibly Kishi hadn't thought that far ahead.

Not sure if any of this is right, or even close, but it is just a thought.
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Old 2008-09-18, 04:53   Link #4
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Spoiler for Space:


Madara seem rather talented in manipulating the people around him... Its possible hes told people things.. like kisame just enough to get him to do what he wants... similar to how he told sasuke all about itachi.. just enough info to push sasuke in the right direction.. he says hes only seen the sharigan twice.. makes sense.. hes never seen madara fight.. maybe his reputation is all he needs... as for the "i thought u killed the entire clan" well hes probably of the belief that madara/itachi are the only ones left... and the last part about destructive activities.. wouldn't be surprised if it was all madara's doing..
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Old 2008-09-18, 05:48   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
How madara can be the mizukage, be an Uchiha, have kisame under his leadership, yet kisame be a missing nin from the very same village, with the story still flowing forward.
I don't see what is being contradicted here, Kisame is a missing nin from water, and Madara is the Mizukage from water. With knowing that Madara is the Mizukage, Kisame can move around more easy knowing that the Mizukage can cover his back.

It's not as if the rest of the world knows the Mizukage is Madara, they just know him as 'the Mizukage' or whatever alias he took up acting as the Mizukage.
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Old 2008-09-18, 16:51   Link #6
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Suna the thing is Kisame said he has never seen another sharingan before but Madara is a strong ninja he probably never felt the need to use the sharingan, his fist is enough to take out a jounin.
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Old 2008-09-18, 18:02   Link #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
I want to discuss a potential plot hole in the series. It revolves around this scene



Kisame recognizes the Mizukage of his village as Madara without any help. How can this be when he makes all of these statements?


How madara can be the mizukage, be an Uchiha, have kisame under his leadership, yet kisame be a missing nin from the very same village, with the story still flowing forward.
Madara could have gotten that position with out using his sharingan, Not to mention Im pretty sure that kisame didn't know that the Mist Kage is Madara until Itachi told him during this chat.
Spoiler:

That reply Itachi gives kisame was hidden, and IMO Itachi told Kisame that Madara is alive, so even if Sasuke was dead Itachi still would not be the only Uchiha alive and that was the cause of kisame saying "what."

Last edited by Master Mold; 2008-09-18 at 18:19.
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Old 2008-09-19, 12:56   Link #8
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The simplest answer: Kisame keeps secret that Madara lives and therefore he *lies* that he has never seen any sharingan eye other than Itachi's. It is not possible for Kisame to not know that Madara is an Uchiha simply because Madara is a legendary guy, his death marked the ending of an era and the beginning of the 5 main kages/villages - 5 big countries. We could say that the 1st hokage began the "middle ages" of the naruto world Therefore Madara probably ordered Kisame to never mention his existence.
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Old 2008-09-19, 15:28   Link #9
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There's another answer to it!
Who tells you that Madara shows his sharingan to Kisame? What do you think, why is he wearing a mask?
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Old 2008-09-24, 22:31   Link #10
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No offense, but Madara is a part of ninja history. Founding father of the uchiha and konoha. He has a large statue of him at the valley of the end. I mean how many madara's do you think are running around? Its like someone in the US being called george washington.

I find it hard to believe that Kisame would recognize madara as madara and not at least briefly consider if its the same madara as uchiha madara. Especially when he has the trademark black hair to boot

Also, if Madara is the water village leader, why is he risking his own high level hunter nins by sending them out to find kisame? Stuff happens when ninjas go out, anything can happen. Why risk valuable man power if you're not trying to catch him?

I personally think Madara isn't the current leader of the water village. He just spends too much time with akatsuki...
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Old 2008-09-24, 23:58   Link #11
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For now, chalk it off as Kisame is dumb as a rock or Madare did not reveal his name until recently. Afterall, I did get the sense that he only communicated with Pein and Zetsu prior to the revealing.
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Old 2008-09-25, 14:03   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
No offense, but Madara is a part of ninja history. Founding father of the uchiha and konoha. He has a large statue of him at the valley of the end. I mean how many madara's do you think are running around? Its like someone in the US being called george washington.

I find it hard to believe that Kisame would recognize madara as madara and not at least briefly consider if its the same madara as uchiha madara. Especially when he has the trademark black hair to boot

Also, if Madara is the water village leader, why is he risking his own high level hunter nins by sending them out to find kisame? Stuff happens when ninjas go out, anything can happen. Why risk valuable man power if you're not trying to catch him?

I personally think Madara isn't the current leader of the water village. He just spends too much time with akatsuki...
So you actually compare this
Spoiler for too big man:
to this
Spoiler for too big -.-:
?

I mean you say that those two are actually looking the same? I think you are influenced by what you think to know is right.
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Old 2008-09-25, 14:26   Link #13
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what chapter is the one where "tobi" reveals himself to kisame?
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Old 2008-09-25, 14:53   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ban kai View Post
what chapter is the one where "tobi" reveals himself to kisame?
It is chapter 404.
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Old 2008-09-25, 17:03   Link #15
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it could be madara just turned off the eye, he is a true blood. so he can just turn it off and on at will. He prob just kept it off as a kage, turned it on when he needed it.
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Old 2008-09-28, 04:59   Link #16
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Either that, or Madara is no longer in his current body. He could have been using a technique similar to Orochimaru's to switch bodies, which would explain how he survived that long.
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Old 2008-09-28, 07:33   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Either that, or Madara is no longer in his current body. He could have been using a technique similar to Orochimaru's to switch bodies, which would explain how he survived that long.
I have another theory - the eyes...

... watch closely.

Spoiler for image:


Do you see Kisame's eye? It's just like when people are encountered with Sharingan. Maybe Kisame did not really see what he saw, being put under the effect of genjutsu.
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Old 2008-09-28, 13:17   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraFlash View Post
I have another theory - the eyes...

... watch closely.

Spoiler for image:


Do you see Kisame's eye? It's just like when people are encountered with Sharingan. Maybe Kisame did not really see what he saw, being put under the effect of genjutsu.
That's kind of pointless, though. Specifically, what does Madara gain by removing his mask and then casting a genjutsu. It would have been just as easy to simply find Kisame, cast a genjutsu in which he imagines the meeting, and then there is no need to meet with him in person, nor physically remove his mask.

Added to that, what would Madara really gain from Kisame by pretending to be the Mizukage (or a Mizukage) of a country that Kisame has abandoned, you might as well pretend to be Hashirama while he is at it.

It is far more likely that Madara is/was the Mizukage.
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Old 2008-09-28, 16:50   Link #19
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I'll raise you one: If he doesn't want to reveal his identity, why would he bother taking of the mask at all?

I don't think Madara cast a genjutsu on Kisame. It would make no sense for him to do so, what would he gain?
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Old 2008-09-28, 16:57   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraFlash View Post
I have another theory - the eyes...

... watch closely.

Spoiler for image:


Do you see Kisame's eye? It's just like when people are encountered with Sharingan. Maybe Kisame did not really see what he saw, being put under the effect of genjutsu.
That's a cool theory, but i don't think that Madara would call himself Madara if the theory was true.
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