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Old 2008-10-01, 20:12   Link #241
mg1942
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Pelosi asked for 13 billion for her special interests.

Get it while you can!
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Old 2008-10-01, 20:46   Link #242
Vexx
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When Pelosi first took the helm, I had some level of respect for her.... her performance as House Speaker has been fairly pointless and she's managed to piss off almost everyone.
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Old 2008-10-01, 21:25   Link #243
mg1942
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The Amount going to Wall St. is still 700B.



The other 150B are simply payoffs for the vote and other earmarks like the "mental health parity" thing.

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Old 2008-10-01, 21:45   Link #244
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Back... there are amendments to the bill... according to the details I heard on CNN, I believe the talking head was campbell brown.. they said that there were additions like money to the states prevented from economic development because of their state being used by the government...
Harry Reid (D-NV, Majority leader) was given as an example, being that a high percentage of the state is owned by the US government and you cannot fly over 40% of the state, etc etc... this was a clear attempt to buy western senators votes.
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Old 2008-10-01, 23:45   Link #245
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http://www.infowars.com/?p=5005 we are so fucked
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Old 2008-10-01, 23:57   Link #246
Solace
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Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
I'm speechless.
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Old 2008-10-02, 00:03   Link #247
Cherudim Arche
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I'm speechless.
Coming from McCain and Bush, not really. What else would you really expect from them and think about it.
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Old 2008-10-02, 00:06   Link #248
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Originally Posted by Dynames/ Virtue View Post
Coming from McCain and Bush, not really. What else would you really expect from them and think about it.
Sorry. All hail our shadowy overlords.
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Old 2008-10-02, 00:25   Link #249
Vexx
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oh yeah... its good to be king :P
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Old 2008-10-02, 00:27   Link #250
Cherudim Arche
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oh yeah... its good to be king :P
so called"King"
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Old 2008-10-02, 00:29   Link #251
mg1942
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It's madness I'm tellin' ya!
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Old 2008-10-02, 00:34   Link #252
Cherudim Arche
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It's madness I'm tellin' ya!
Yep, it's crazy
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Old 2008-10-02, 01:02   Link #253
TigerII
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Netherlands is now seeking €300,000,000 to bail out European banks.

Look below me for link.

Last edited by TigerII; 2008-10-02 at 08:33.
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Old 2008-10-02, 08:05   Link #254
Anh_Minh
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http://www.lemonde.fr/la-crise-finan...8_1101386.html

Looks like it's actually the Netherlands' idea. France is against it.
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Old 2008-10-02, 08:32   Link #255
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Oi, then that source needs to get their heads out of their asses.
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Old 2008-10-02, 08:51   Link #256
Anh_Minh
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That, or it really was France's idea. It wouldn't be the first time our government leaks a plan to gauge the reactions and deny it afterwards if it's impopular. Though I thought they kept it for domestic policies.

Though the whole "governmental sources in Berlin" thing makes me question the plausibility of that hypothesis.
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Old 2008-10-02, 09:33   Link #257
Tri-ring
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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
...which, interestingly enough, is reminiscent of what the Japanese government did post-WWII, becoming the largest and most lenient bank out there because there's nobody else to become banks, or existing banks won't do their job and provide capital to people who need them.

Why, how ingenious! While there's no guarantee that throwing trillions at banks and financial intermediaries will really convince them to loan out again, the government itself becoming a lender bypasses that problem. Papa Sam doesn't -- or shouldn't, ideally -- care all that much about getting a profit off its loans, it cares a lot more about allowing businesses to receive capital for their operations; and in any case the position of a lender has far more leverage than the one-time beneficiary role will have, allowing for future, crucial, necessary adjustments to be made in the economy as needed. But of course, that's "socialism" and a big no-go, uh-huh.
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aye, that is what the bill *should* do, that's what most economists say should happen ... so WHY is the bill not addressing that - the heart of what will pound Main Street to shreds?
Although I am a little late, I'll tell you up front that that scheme does not work in modern world and/or has ill effect towards SMEs becuase that scheme was intended to help big corporations from the get-go.
If this scheme was to be implemented towards SMEs 25% to 30% will be directltly lost through HR(hiring, organazing and training) and another 20 to 30% will be lost through miss-assessment and/or mis-management because it is notoriously difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff not to be considered lightly.

The post war Japanese plan was emphsized on only large corporations and SMEs recieved little to no funds directly from the government.
Ultimately trading companies evaluated and funneled funds which became companies like Casio Honda and/or Seiko.

Watching the past events in Japan, the best bet for saving the present US economic crisis is the bail out plan.
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Old 2008-10-02, 11:50   Link #258
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When the House rejected the Bill earlier this week, I could at least respect the decision. The Representatives who voted nay could credibly claim to have acted in the interests of their constituents. If the "revised" Bill passes this time round, I'd only end up feeling sorrier for all Americans.

As far as I can tell, the only tangible improvements are the temporary increases in federal insurance for bank deposits, from US$100,00 to US$250,000. Almost everything else is a combination of the old Bill with added pork — most of which are hardly even related to solving the credit crisis, and could in fact increase the US budget deficit.

It seems that lawmakers believe that if you can't persuade voters with logic, you've got to fool them with sweets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
...which, interestingly enough, is reminiscent of what the Japanese government did post-WWII, becoming the largest and most lenient bank out there because there's nobody else to become banks, or existing banks won't do their job and provide capital to people who need them.

Although I'm not sure it'll come out that excellently in the long run. I can hardly call myself an expert or even an amateur of Japanese economic history, but I vaguely recall that the Japanese eventually had to change out of that model and not perfectly smoothly while at it.
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
aye, that is what the bill *should* do, that's what most economists say should happen ... so WHY is the bill not addressing that - the heart of what will pound Main Street to shreds?
Except that I don't believe you can have your cake and eat it. The present problem cannot be completely solved just by saving Main Street and not Wall Street. The chain of credit stretches from Wall Street through Main Street to the rest of the world.

Sure, perhaps the US government could bailout homeowners instead. Instead of nationalising the banks, nationalise homes that are in danger of getting foreclosed. Consumers get cash in hand once more, and they can start spending again.

But only for one brief cycle. The bad debts will continue to sit on the banks' books. They either get erased by a lender/rescuer of last resort, or the banks will go bankrupt, and pull down every other institution along with them.

Suppose voters adamantly refuse to save the banks, for understandable reasons. What then? When all financial institutions fail, the only working institution left would be the US government. Whichever way I look at it, it all comes back to government intervention at one level or another.

World markets are right to be cautious about the Senate's approval of the "new" Bill. If it indeed passes, Americans look like so much bigger fools for voting such lawmakers into power. If it does not, it's back to the drawing board, for yet another round of whoopee.
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Old 2008-10-02, 13:14   Link #259
Realist_Classic
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
That, or it really was France's idea. It wouldn't be the first time our government leaks a plan to gauge the reactions and deny it afterwards if it's impopular. Though I thought they kept it for domestic policies.

Though the whole "governmental sources in Berlin" thing makes me question the plausibility of that hypothesis.
Interesting (unfortunately since I can't read French, I'll have to take your word for it). Really, this is the first time that I heard that the 'EU Bailout Fund' proposal came from the Netherlands. Perhaps France is now trying hard to avoid being singled out as the only desperate European government needing more money to bailout its beleaguered financial institutions. The Telegraph had article on a rumor that Lagarde actually pleaded with Paulson to bailout AIG because French banks were terribly dependent on a $300 billion credit extension by the insurer, precious capital needed in order to stay afloat.

Looks like neither the Germans nor the British are interested in this Fund, and the European Central Bank has come out against the French proposal. I wonder what Sarkozy will suggest this Saturday, when he's supposed to host an EU economic summit.
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Old 2008-10-02, 15:02   Link #260
Anh_Minh
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Poor Lagarde keeps saying stuff that's later denied by the rest of the government. I don't know what's up with that.

As for our banks being in trouble... I doubt it. They're generalist banks, not pure investment banks.

(Also, it's the Dutch proposal! )

Lagarde, being a friend of big businesses, is more favorable to the proposal and bailouts than others. It could be what started the rumors. Maybe she said something that was blown out of proportions. (I just can't trust an anonymous source from a government that isn't even France's.)
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