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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 227 52.79%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 88 20.47%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 35 8.14%
7 out of 10 : Good 30 6.98%
6 out of 10 : Average 17 3.95%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 7 1.63%
4 out of 10 : Poor 5 1.16%
3 out of 10 : Bad 7 1.63%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 3 0.70%
1 out of 10 : Painful 11 2.56%
Voters: 430. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-22, 21:56   Link #1241
KrimzonStriker
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Let me have a chance...




Whether they b!tched about her dying or b!tched about her coming back the crux of the b!tching then would have to be the entire scenario for seemingly killing her in the first place...Many people are b1tching based on a pattern of activity not necessarily the final result...Honestly though, in a realtime based forum world what would you have people do? Wait until the entire series ends to capsulize their thoughts? People respond to stuff based on that moment in time...They make predictions and comments based on the progression of the series at that point...The only way for you to get what you want would be for people to never have a misgiving over a show until they have seen every single bit of everything that show has to offer...You can't do that in a realtime world...The people who got mad that it appeared Cornelia was dead don't know the writers are gonna "bring her back"...So based on your general disposition you just want them to shut up and view the show in the manner you do with optimism and reflection...In a realtime world there'd be no post counts on forums if people did that...A forum is a special place for people to b1tch, praise, cheerlead, speculate, elongate their e-penises and have a certain level of fun...Do you want to suppress that or shouldn't you just navigate it? Because you can't successfully suppress it...

You always talk about how people change their minds about these shows after the fact when the dust settles, so if they do that again what's the problem? People who post here everyday are a special breed indeed and without them who'd you be talking about right now? I just don't get it, your making mob-mentality into one single entity forsaking the whole of it's parts...How many overboard posts do you read until you've deemed that the atmosphere is insanely against the show that particular week? Is it one blogger that sets you off or 2 bloggers and a random curiosity poster? You see what I'm getting at? I don't even know what your fighting against sometimes...What dictates the criteria for you're defensive nature for people who criticize this show? Yet you say it so confidently like you have an actual list with names or something...I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, but I just can't do it...You do have an excellent blog for this show and others, but loving your own opinion just doesn't seem enuff...
While it might be a fact wing, about how real-time works, it kind of makes it very sad in general. Kind of how I attribute the stupidity of the world in general, and why I shrink myself to go and enjoy anime series instead. Honestly, you can understand why I lose my lunch when I see it surface here as well. And if you're insisting such things should exist then I don't see why you have a problem with Kaio doing the same here, sometimes this shit just gets too out of hand, sometimes people just need to get slapped down already after slapping around everything else in their path, sometimes you just have to take a stand when you know something is wrong. >_>

And wing, do not go looking at the mirror and calling it Kaio here, I think you are loving your opinion more then anything else, as I tried to attribute beforehand that no amount of reasoning or logical argumentation seemed to dissuade you from that. I at least give Kaio props for having a very analytical focus on these things where he actually backs what he says quite well based on a grounded frame-work. I think more then anything, this is true of me, the reflection of his argument in this case is his disgust of what you are accusing him here of... <_<
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Old 2008-09-22, 22:00   Link #1242
KrimzonStriker
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Originally Posted by Syphen View Post
Poignant, articulate, and correct.

/thread
Also makes me want to get back up and start hacking people if its something you're being told you should just endure even if you know its utterly idiotic. The hell, Lelouch certainly didn't do that... >_>
__________________
"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
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Old 2008-09-22, 22:12   Link #1243
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
This isn't war, this is anime. Though I would question how tons of Knightmare Frames getting destroyed by Fleia is not a bloodbath and Diethard's death wasn't rather gruesome and unfortunate either. And I personally felt the mecha action was great this episode. Better than it's been in ages and certainly not anything I would even think of lowering to the level of that show I won't even use in the same sentence as this one. Then again, I don't have a general response for every episode like some people seem to where regardless of the content it's "does not make sense". Not saying your one of these people, but as far as I'm concerned they could have an episode where everything was explained and summarized in bullet point form after the credits and people would still claim it made no sense.

And I don't know about you, but there have been characters that I liked who have died. Shirley for one, Rolo for another (and I liked his character before it became "cool" to like him), you know...people with character and personality. What I find funny is that when people who have no character at all die like Monica and Dorothea died as named cannon fodder, then holy crap, better watch out, it's bad writing striking again and they deserved better for some reason.

That's not even my favourite though, my favourite is the about face from episode 23 to episode 24 with regard to Cornelia. When it looked like she died in episode 23 people bitched because the ultra-popular Cornelia was "killed off" and she deserved better, yet when it turns out she was merely injured in this episode they bitched anyway because she was "brought back by the writers". So that just goes to show how much of a no win situation this show seems to be in for some. The only real solution it seems is that they have nothing extraordinary happen at all. Just have boring monotonous event after boring monotonous event happen with no surprises, shocks or moments of uncertainty and then it'll be "good writing"......oh but wait, then the show will be poorly written cause it's boring. What to do......nope, the writers are screwed.

And just for the record, if most of the criticism I saw didn't amount to cliches and one-liners then I wouldn't care at all.

And for the tl;dr that basically states my overall reaction to the entire experience that is Code Geass R2:

Lame writing by the staff? Maybe in some aspects.
Lame criticism from fans on forums and blogs? You better believe it.

Essentially, any absurdity that this show might exhibit is usually overshadowed in the long run by the absurdity of people's reaction to it that I witness by the time I get around to seeing the episode. Not that most of said absurdity in an episode is any crazier then what I've come to expect from anime. I'm not going to pretend that anime is some golden standard for quality of writing and storytelling like some seem to think. I know where to set my expectations for Geass and it's not at the level of War and Peace. In short, I guess it's all relative.
Its hard to properly pull off showing the horrors of war in mecha simply because its mainly just stuff blowing up. You can't show someone cradling a body since the body blew up. The fact that the cast seems to brush off any horrible deed, also kind of undermines the whole thing.

Due to the fact that you really can't show the gruesome side of war you have to show it another way



By killing someone, that the audience liked, someone like Tamaki or Todoh. My comparison to the worst mecha tv series ever was simply that during the final battle none of the Archangel crew died. Sure alot of people died, but they where not anyone we cared about. Obviously it has better mech action because the worst mecha tv series ever had the crappiest mecha action in the history of mecha action.

What's sadder Bernies death in Gundam 0080 or the scene in the worst tv mecha series where the lipstick guy blows up some colonies? Its Bernie's death

No one liked Diethard so his death is similar to Yuna from the worst mecha tv series ever. We liked the death just because the person deserved it.

Most of the complaints about Cornelia's death where more that the show has become sillier and has lost its edge.

As for Monica and Dorothea, the bitching mainly was about Sexism, and the fact that it appeared to have been a scenes from the Worst mecha TV series ever.

Yes Shirley and Rolo died, but they where not war scenes, and generally don't carry the war thing on. Those deaths mostly showed the consenquences of Lelouch's actions one of the strong points of Geass.
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Old 2008-09-22, 22:14   Link #1244
aldw
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Also makes me want to get back up and start hacking people if its something you're being told you should just endure even if you know its utterly idiotic. The hell, Lelouch certainly didn't do that... >_>
The same can be said for a lot of things, particularly one involving real-life make-or-break conflicts, point of the matter still is that people vent their opinions on assorted things whether or not it is perfectly rational or irrational, just as people can choose to accept, disagree or ignore those same opinions. I myself have major criticisms of Code Geass that could fill a thesis paper , but as I do not particularly care for the show, I don't bother making much commentary on it as a matter of course.

That being said, what disappoints me most about Sunrise is how the same studio that made Planetes and Cowboy Bebop could produce something as poorly structured as Code Geass R2 and Gundam Seed Destiny, that just boggles the mind.
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Old 2008-09-22, 22:18   Link #1245
Syphen
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
And your supporting wing's support of this why? Cause that's what I think I read, that we allow people to indulge in ignorance, idiocy, irrationality, mis-information, in-consideration etc. etc. when you know otherwise. Since when is asking people to be reasonable such a crime?

God won't help us, we can only ever help ourselves I think we need to realize that >_>
It narrows down to people complaining about complainers, the irony is staggering. If one wishes to praise the sanctity of free speech then be wary about labeling others as nit-pickers and gripers. This is an internet forum, of course there is going to be an plethora of people ranting and raving from the safety of their anonymity but that is the beauty of it. I don't see how trying to subdue this nature is going to make things any more fulfilling for the users. In short, let the ideas and disagreements flow.

Watch out for those phrases, they like to turn.
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Old 2008-09-22, 22:19   Link #1246
KrimzonStriker
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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
Its hard to properly pull off showing the horrors of war in mecha simply because its mainly just stuff blowing up. You can't show someone cradling a body since the body blew up. The fact that the cast seems to brush off any horrible deed, also kind of undermines the whole thing.

Due to the fact that you really can't show the gruesome side of war you have to show it another way
If you take into account the whole series I think they do a good job of it, I mean man, the ghetto cleansing was pretty darn sickening as was the assault on the Babel tower. I also think giving a face to the destroyed before they are consumed in a fiery explosion acts as a nice touch, reminds us there's a person in the mech that just got fried

Quote:
By killing someone, that the audience liked, someone like Tamaki or Todoh. My comparison to the worst mecha tv series ever was simply that during the final battle none of the Archangel crew died. Sure alot of people died, but they where not anyone we cared about. Obviously it has better mech action because the worst mecha tv series ever had the crappiest mecha action in the history of mecha action.


What's sadder Bernies death in Gundam 0080 or the scene in the worst tv mecha series where the lipstick guy blows up some colonies? Its Bernie's death

No one liked Diethard so his death is similar to Yuna from the worst mecha tv series ever. We liked the death just because the person deserved it.
I beg to differ, I'm still crying over Rolo, people are still crying over Shirley, everyone is still crying over Euphie, I mean geez, this series does a hell of a lot better when it comes to deaths and pulling them off well

Quote:
Most of the complaints about Cornelia's death where more that the show has become sillier and has lost its edge.
Damn if it still isn't entertaining as hell, and I thought it added a nicer and more finesse touch by indicating that Schneizel wasn't as bad as he was made out to be in the beginning episode, which was important I feel. I often like to try and view the big picture on these things, and this was good I thought anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syphen View Post
It narrows down to people complaining about complainers, the irony is staggering. If one wishes to praise the sanctity of free speech then be wary about labeling others as nit-pickers and gripers. This is an internet forum, of course there is going to be an plethora of people ranting and raving from the safety of their anonymity but that is the beauty of it. I don't see how trying to subdue this nature is going to make things any more fulfilling for the users. In short, let the ideas and disagreements flow.

Watch out for those phrases, they like to turn.
Well, then why dismiss one side of the argument at all in this case? Kaio presents his ideas, his arguments, and his disagreements as I do my own, does that suddenly not make them valid? Certainly at least we try to construct them as valid by as much as possible unlike most people, and that becomes the core complaint? Honestly, free speech is overrated from my personal perspective anyway, saying whatever you want however you want is just giving way to lack of responsibility that comes with such a privilege and people abuse it to the extreme. Its an internet forum as you say though, so I don't see why complainers of complainers shouldn't have a right to voice their reasons on the matter when people choose to do the same with a series, irony or not, this statement that you just made now becomes a contradiction by denying said complainers of complainers voice on the matter as well.

Meh, whatever I say I'm prepared to fully embrace the consequences and take my stand. I only wonder if others will ever do the same >_>
__________________
"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/7050/zeroty5copieie4.jpg
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Old 2008-09-22, 22:22   Link #1247
aldw
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
And your supporting wing's support of this why? Cause that's what I think I read, that we allow people to indulge in ignorance, idiocy, irrationality, mis-information, in-consideration etc. etc. when you know otherwise. Since when is asking people to be reasonable such a crime?

God won't help us, we can only ever help ourselves I think we need to realize that >_>
And by experience one should already know not only are people's rationality intertwined with their emotional states, it is should also be noted that calls to 'outward' reason often serves a different agenda, witness the heated rows between Star War Curtis Saxton supporters and Karen Traviss supporters.
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Old 2008-09-22, 22:28   Link #1248
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
If you take into account the whole series I think they do a good job of it, I mean man, the ghetto cleansing was pretty darn sickening as was the assault on the Babel tower. I also think giving a face to the destroyed before they are consumed in a fiery explosion acts as a nice touch, reminds us there's a person in the mech that just got fried



I beg to differ, I'm still crying over Rolo, people are still crying over Shirley, everyone is still crying over Euphie, I mean geez, this series does a hell of a lot better when it comes to deaths and pulling them off well



Damn if it still isn't entertaining as hell, and I thought it added a nicer and more finesse touch by indicating that Schneizel wasn't as bad as he was made out to be in the beginning episode, which was important I feel. I often like to try and view the big picture on these things, and this was good I thought anyway
Why are you crying over Rolo, Shirley, Euphemia? The reason is that you liked the characters, and their deaths give you a stomach punch right in the gut. The only problem is that Code Geass had you right their in the opening, and at the last second they gave you a flower.

They had the chance and they blew it for shipping.

Yes, they did save their ass with the Schneizel thing, it showed to me that the scenes of him in the School festival episode wasn't a mask. That's the real Schneizel, they could have done it in a more graceful way. A minor complaint unlike the one above.
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Old 2008-09-22, 22:28   Link #1249
KrimzonStriker
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Originally Posted by aldw View Post
And by experience one should already know not only are people's rationality intertwined with their emotional states, it is should also be noted that calls to 'outward' reason often serves a different agenda, witness the heated rows between Star War Curtis Saxton supporters and Karen Traviss supporters.
Of course I do, and its our ability to control that which separates the worth of it all in the end, that's what makes it reasonable from my experience personally anyway <_<

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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
Why are you crying over Rolo, Shirley, Euphemia? The reason is that you liked the characters, and their deaths give you a stomach punch right in the gut. The only problem is that Code Geass had you right their in the opening, and at the last second they gave you a flower.

They had the chance and they blew it for shipping.

Yes, they did save their ass with the Schneizel thing, it showed to me that the scenes of him in the School festival episode wasn't a mask. That's the real Schneizel, they could have done it in a more graceful way. A minor complaint unlike the one above.
What? I don't know why but I rather don't much like getting bludgeoned to death if that's what you're asking. I'm simply stating that Code Geass got the plenty of good hits and I think this current direction with the ending is a good one as well, a pattern of lots of suffering but some relief towards the end keeps it balanced I feel. Makes you not want to blow up your computer monitor/T.V afterward which is a bonus

Like I said, some relief after the storm and all that jazz

Then it wouldn't be Schneizel and we wouldn't have an excuse to beat him into the ground afterward, because despite being sympathetic we really couldn't afford to get distracted with his fall. This was fine I thought, gives hope for the future in general as well, which is a good message in the end. You heard Lelouch, strive for happiness with all your might!

You know, I don't know what you were expecting Charred, the series in general wasn't about maintaining a dark tone to the bitter end, it was about realizing the cruelty of reality but still managing to strive for something better in the end, that too is a very understandable and realistic progression. What obstructs us, we must overcome, not succumb to in the end.
__________________
"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/7050/zeroty5copieie4.jpg
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Old 2008-09-22, 22:51   Link #1250
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
While it might be a fact wing, about how real-time works, it kind of makes it very sad in general. Kind of how I attribute the stupidity of the world in general, and why I shrink myself to go and enjoy anime series instead. Honestly, you can understand why I lose my lunch when I see it surface here as well. And if you're insisting such things should exist then I don't see why you have a problem with Kaio doing the same here, sometimes this shit just gets too out of hand, sometimes people just need to get slapped down already after slapping around everything else in their path, sometimes you just have to take a stand when you know something is wrong. >_>
Honestly, while we've had discussions you don't know much about me...Smacking down people for fanboy based opinion has gotten me banned almost more times than week-old n00bz have post counts (Unfortunatley this forum's supermod can back me up on all of this though I take no real pride in it anymore)...I have no tolerance for those who use fanboy juices to defend and formulate any and every opinion here...I have pwned more people than I can count on those issues, but I will not ever suppress opinion especially when I think that opinion has valdity...Just like I told K-sama last week on his blog:

Spoiler for wordpress:


It's just not my nature to push agendas that aim to quiet particular factions in a forum environment...I'm a big proponent of real talk and raw unfiltered opinion, so I'm not gonna b1tch at every supposed flamer as much as I would pwn or ignore those with no redeeming qualities...


Quote:
And wing, do not go looking at the mirror and calling it Kaio here, I think you are loving your opinion more then anything else, as I tried to attribute beforehand that no amount of reasoning or logical argumentation seemed to dissuade you from that. I at least give Kaio props for having a very analytical focus on these things where he actually backs what he says quite well based on a grounded frame-work. I think more then anything, this is true of me, the reflection of his argument in this case is his disgust of what you are accusing him here of... <_<
No I like K-sama and his blog (he's on my friends list unless he wants to kick me^^) I just have a very strong stance against suppressing opinion on internet forums...I've been challenging people on this topic for years, I didn't just pull that outta my a$$ 5 mins ago...And hell yeah I love my opinions, and have declaration in what I speak; that's why I said a forum is also a place where e-penises get longer amongst other things...I'm very confident in my stances but I just don't think confidence necessarily equates a borderline crusading...One of my problems is that I hate all these "play nice" rules that makes every controversial post have to have a f*cking smiley face just so it doesn't get modded (You see what you made me do, even now I have to be less boisterous)....Additionally I think K-sama can handle himself if you don't mind, but I pull no punches here if that's what needs to be expressed....

For all his great framework and excellent blog coverage I have noticed an effort or bias that I don't quite understand he can have...You hate trolls, fine, most people do, but I reject the mentality that creates this arguably fictional world where 2 or 3 bloggers or 10 random posters create this tidal wave of criticism verses a show to him...I was just trying to understand the thought-process that makes a particular week more negative than the last week? What's the criteria for it? I have agreed with the guy during Gundam 00 criticism because I AGREED WITH HIM (I saw what he saw), but for Code geass I don't see the same thing he sees and I know I go to all the same places...So I was trying to figure it out once and for all...I think for all the craziness that surrounds this show (and most popular anime for that matter), many people have made valid points even in their lack of articulation or sheer trolling efforts...I don't like it all and will pwn it when need be, but I won't call to suppress it (even indirectly)...
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Old 2008-09-22, 22:53   Link #1251
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Of course I do, and its our ability to control that which separates the worth of it all in the end, that's what makes it reasonable from my experience personally anyway <_<



What? I don't know why but I rather don't much like getting bludgeoned to death if that's what you're asking. I'm simply stating that Code Geass got the plenty of good hits and I think this current direction with the ending is a good one as well, a pattern of lots of suffering but some relief towards the end keeps it balanced I feel. Makes you not want to blow up your computer monitor/T.V afterward which is a bonus

Like I said, some relief after the storm and all that jazz

Then it wouldn't be Schneizel and we wouldn't have an excuse to beat him into the ground afterward, because despite being sympathetic we really couldn't afford to get distracted with his fall. This was fine I thought, gives hope for the future in general as well, which is a good message in the end. You heard Lelouch, strive for happiness with all your might!

You know, I don't know what you were expecting Charred, the series in general wasn't about maintaining a dark tone to the bitter end, it was about realizing the cruelty of reality but still managing to strive for something better in the end, that too is a very understandable and realistic progression. What obstructs us, we must overcome, not succumb to in the end.
The problem is that in the end it doesn't come off as natural or a realistic progression.

Yes, some black knights died but none that we liked. Instead of me feeling like the cast deserves the happy ending, it just feels more like life gave them pain , and suffering, then it gave them a flower and rainbows. I don't feel that anyone earned it. Maybe the ending will change that for me, but Episode 24 really didn't set it up.

An excellent example of what I am talking about is Metal Gear Solid series, in each of them their is hope, but it is small fiting the dark nature of the series.
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Old 2008-09-22, 23:00   Link #1252
KrimzonStriker
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The problem is that in the end it doesn't come off as natural or a realistic progression.

Yes, some black knights died but none that we liked. Instead of me feeling like the cast deserves the happy ending, it just feels more like life gave them pain , and suffering, then it gave them a flower and rainbows. I don't feel that anyone earned it. Maybe the ending will change that for me, but Episode 24 really didn't set it up.

An excellent example of what I am talking about is Metal Gear Solid series, in each of them their is hope, but it is small fiting the dark nature of the series.
Meh, I thought it worked, not as well as it could have admittedly, but enough with some flair

The hell, Lelouch totally earned it I'm telling you from my perspective. Well, even if he gets it that is. As for the rest of the cast, it gives you a sense of the misfortune at the turn of events currently that brought them here, I mean they're fighting or trying to kill the very people that would save them, you know. If that doesn't say anything I don't know what will. They're not getting puppies and rainbows, they're basically getting the great momentous of a guys will more like it, a guy they had hated and treated like dirt up to the end to boot. Kind of morbid now that I think about it

Meh, I think you're exaggerating, I think the series managed to follow that progression generally, not to the exact length, but generally. Certainly puppies and rainbows didn't happen when Lelouch does things, I mean a good amount of the negative aspects you brought up are abound here. Seriously, its certainly not perfect but I think you're once again being a bit too harsh when you don't really need to be. <_<
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"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/7050/zeroty5copieie4.jpg
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Old 2008-09-22, 23:45   Link #1253
Jeffry2009
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Question What did i just missed?

This is totally ridicilous to me about milly & rivalz thing. They should be worried about Lelouch & suzaku instead of nina only bcoz both their friendship was finally clash after lelouch has done. or was it? totally dissapointing and it really bothers me.

PS:- i don't really like Kallen now because she's now an enemy to Suzaku although suzaku become the good guy & lelouch's side now and she will bites him into the dust in the final episode.
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Old 2008-09-22, 23:48   Link #1254
Proudleaf
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I think it's time to move on, as nothing seems to come from this argument except bias and more bias xD...

EPISODE RELATED INFO?

I know a lot of fans vehemently hate Nina, but another thing I wanted to mention was that I really like the way her character has progressed. It's strange really, but she almost seems like the one with the clearest goal for herself, amidst a cast that is still very much confused and conflicted. I'm sure someone already brought this up, but I still find it really refreshing, and I liked the screen time she had in the episode.
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Old 2008-09-22, 23:56   Link #1255
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I think it's time to move on, as nothing seems to come from this argument except bias and more bias xD...

EPISODE RELATED INFO?

I know a lot of fans vehemently hate Nina, but another thing I wanted to mention was that I really like the way her character has progressed. It's strange really, but she almost seems like the one with the clearest goal for herself, amidst a cast that is still very much confused and conflicted. I'm sure someone already brought this up, but I still find it really refreshing, and I liked the screen time she had in the episode.
Lelouch called her admirable for a reason. She had clear goals and she would not give it up. Practically everyone else in the series had fickle minds that change without a second thought.

What I want to know is how she's doing - she seems to have survived the assault on the Avalon, but I don't remember seeing her with Sayoko and co. and the hostages.

In any rate, her death flags should be all off by now.
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Old 2008-09-23, 00:03   Link #1256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Let me have a chance...




Whether they b!tched about her dying or b!tched about her coming back the crux of the b!tching then would have to be the entire scenario for seemingly killing her in the first place...Many people are b1tching based on a pattern of activity not necessarily the final result...Honestly though, in a realtime based forum world what would you have people do? Wait until the entire series ends to capsulize their thoughts? People respond to stuff based on that moment in time...They make predictions and comments based on the progression of the series at that point...The only way for you to get what you want would be for people to never have a misgiving over a show until they have seen every single bit of everything that show has to offer...You can't do that in a realtime world...The people who got mad that it appeared Cornelia was dead don't know the writers are gonna "bring her back"...So based on your general disposition you just want them to shut up and view the show in the manner you do with optimism and reflection...In a realtime world there'd be no post counts on forums if people did that...A forum is a special place for people to b1tch, praise, cheerlead, speculate, elongate their e-penises and have a certain level of fun...Do you want to suppress that or shouldn't you just navigate it? Because you can't successfully suppress it...

You always talk about how people change their minds about these shows after the fact when the dust settles, so if they do that again what's the problem? People who post here everyday are a special breed indeed and without them who'd you be talking about right now? I just don't get it, your making mob-mentality into one single entity forsaking the whole of it's parts...How many overboard posts do you read until you've deemed that the atmosphere is insanely against the show that particular week? Is it one blogger that sets you off or 2 bloggers and a random curiosity poster? You see what I'm getting at? I don't even know what your fighting against sometimes...What dictates the criteria for you're defensive nature for people who criticize this show? Yet you say it so confidently like you have an actual list with names or something...I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, but I just can't do it...You do have an excellent blog for this show and others, but loving your own opinion just doesn't seem enuff...
Well my only response to that would be to ask how you can fairly call a show a "trainwreck" before it's even over. And people have been doing this since before the season was even well under way. I mean of course a show is going to look incomplete and messy when it hasn't even had a chance to get around to answering most of it's questions, which it ultimately did.

And it's not that I love my own opinion, it's that I recognize it as one. Others seem to consider their POV the only one when they start talking, especially with the "bad writing" crew. And to be honest that's really the only one I am really against on principal other then "not making sense". That's to subjective an idea for people to go around spouting as if it's a god given fact.

As for the "not making sense" crew, that is also a subjective issue, but I'm not necessarily against it so much as I am frustrated and confused by it since I just don't see it to be the case at all. I can't say I've had a hard time following or understanding anything other then about 5 minutes of episode 20 in this entire show. It also looks like a stock response to me because in some cases it's the first, last and only thing you every hear out of some people. Then when you try to ask them what doesn't make sense you either can't get an answer, or it's something so obvious that you can't do anything other then shake your head and say, "I can't explain that, not because I don't understand, but because I don't know how to make it any simpler for you". Then the accusation of arrogance starts. It's a vicious cycle that would repeat week after week and it's just annoying.

As for changing minds, it looks like it may have already happened, and earlier then I expected, but then that just makes it feel all the more hollow. Like all of the criticism was just a bunch of noise and people were sticking to it only because of the heat of the moment. Then again maybe not. I guess we'll have to wait until episode 25 to find out.

Keep in mind also that I'm far less interested in people's reactions then trying to get to the root of them or the why. That's part of the reason I've focused on this issue. As means of trying to see what makes people tick. And no I'm not a marketing consultant or anything, just unusually curious about the workings of the mind.
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Old 2008-09-23, 00:36   Link #1257
KrimzonStriker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Honestly, while we've had discussions you don't know much about me...Smacking down people for fanboy based opinion has gotten me banned almost more times than week-old n00bz have post counts (Unfortunatley this forum's supermod can back me up on all of this though I take no real pride in it anymore)...I have no tolerance for those who use fanboy juices to defend and formulate any and every opinion here...I have pwned more people than I can count on those issues, but I will not ever suppress opinion especially when I think that opinion has valdity...Just like I told K-sama last week on his blog:

Spoiler for wordpress:
I'll make this short since I don't have much time, but I think you're noting a very clear difference between what I'm trying to get at. I don't work or support oppressing the expression of an opinion, just the evisceration of what generally it is just plain stupid by any standards and to demonstrate as such, or if lacking in some parts in terms of its reasoning or limited in consideration then I seek to clarify in this stead.

As for the whole tom, dick, and harry, I certainly don't have the time to do the such a campaign, I usually go for people I think are reasonable in this case and are capable of demonstrating the kind of ability your pertaining too, because I think I can get somewhere with them. Another thing is, that while valid I often think the degree in which people will take these points is borderline exaggeration, that distorts its value while at the same time bringing into focus of only a negative picture in their minds while ignoring any real positives. In any case, I try not to go anywhere where I don't think it'll do much good.

Quote:
It's just not my nature to push agendas that aim to quiet particular factions in a forum environment...I'm a big proponent of real talk and raw unfiltered opinion, so I'm not gonna b1tch at every supposed flamer as much as I would pwn or ignore those with no redeeming qualities...
Meh, if I think I can contribute then I will. I'm a big proponent of people actually thinking about what they say myself, its why I don't enjoy pure opinion passed off like its well-reasoned. After awhile I tend to think people just end up wasting space more then anything if that is the case.

Quote:
No I like K-sama and his blog (he's on my friends list unless he wants to kick me^^) I just have a very strong stance against suppressing opinion on internet forums...I've been challenging people on this topic for years, I didn't just pull that outta my a$$ 5 mins ago...And hell yeah I love my opinions, and have declaration in what I speak; that's why I said a forum is also a place where e-penises get longer amongst other things...I'm very confident in my stances but I just don't think confidence necessarily equates a borderline crusading...One of my problems is that I hate all these "play nice" rules that makes every controversial post have to have a f*cking smiley face just so it doesn't get modded (You see what you made me do, even now I have to be less boisterous)....Additionally I think K-sama can handle himself if you don't mind, but I pull no punches here if that's what needs to be expressed....
That's fine I guess, truthfully I don't see the point in changing anybody that isn't willing to change, its what I said about targeting people that seem somewhat reasonable on matters. More then suppress, basically I aim to tear it into shreds for the most part when I know damn well its flimsy and get them to see that, when that is the fact of course. People are not so much idiotic as they are ignorant, I don't personally want to suppress as so much try and expand their views on things. I mean, I take the time to read, reevaluate, learn from my experiences on theses matters, that's what people seek when they share their views, expanding my considerations. So basically, if all they have is nothing then it should be regarded as nothing, in my eyes, if they have something then take that in to form a new whole for yourself and seek to share that new whole in turn. In terms of playing nice, well, that's fine as well I guess, you've got your own style. I don't mind playing nice though, being polite, gives me more control and allows me to analysis things in a clearer state of mind instead of rushing head first into things.


Quote:
For all his great framework and excellent blog coverage I have noticed an effort or bias that I don't quite understand he can have...You hate trolls, fine, most people do, but I reject the mentality that creates this arguably fictional world where 2 or 3 bloggers or 10 random posters create this tidal wave of criticism verses a show to him...I was just trying to understand the thought-process that makes a particular week more negative than the last week? What's the criteria for it? I have agreed with the guy during Gundam 00 criticism because I AGREED WITH HIM (I saw what he saw), but for Code geass I don't see the same thing he sees and I know I go to all the same places...So I was trying to figure it out once and for all...I think for all the craziness that surrounds this show (and most popular anime for that matter), many people have made valid points even in their lack of articulation or sheer trolling efforts...I don't like it all and will pwn it when need be, but I won't call to suppress it (even indirectly)...
I could argue the same thing in terms of the mentality being created by the 2 or 3 bloggers, or 10 random posters on a lot of what they say. Basically its taken to a point where all anyone sees is what they want to see, not taking into consideration of anything else really. Do they have valid points? Sure, I think Kaio will be one of the first to state that Code Geass isn't without its faults. But still, I suppose the effort, at least on my part in regards to my own actions to the issue, is one in which I try to insert consideration in their narrow-scope, because as you say one shouldn't ignore valid points if they are indeed valid. I could say the same for a lot of the very people I target though. More often then not, you wonder if a person will listen if he expects the same courteousy out of anyone else when they make their voices known.
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"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
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Old 2008-09-23, 01:21   Link #1258
blitz1/2
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Was anyone else other than me laughing when Lulu lost his right arm to Gino.

The voice was hilarious, "Nani? Kono powa wa?!"
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Old 2008-09-23, 01:26   Link #1259
itachi29al
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Not bad, but is the next episode the last
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Old 2008-09-23, 01:45   Link #1260
Spectacular_Insanity
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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I guess I didn't realize fully until this episode, but I really don't like Kallen being on the opposite side of Lelouch. In my mind, they were destined to be allies after the insanity that was the end of season one. I'm especially annoyed because Kallen had been captured for so long, and now she's in a fight with Suzaku, I'm not sure what's gonna happen to her (she might even die). Personally, my money is on Suzaku, anyway - his Geass'd state gives him a pretty big advantage IMHO (look at the way he used to to easily defeat the Knight of One).

And I agree with wingdarkness about Diethard. I find it incredibly ironic that a man who wished to witness true history in the making died as barely a footnote in history. His death somehow seemed fitting. I did find it strange how he freaked out at the end, though. I didn't think that kind of reaction was in his nature.

Frankly, about Nunnally... people will probably hate me for saying this, but I think lelouch should just Geass her and be done with it. Ending the fight and threat of FLEIA is far too important to let emotion get in the way. Especially not when he's come this far. The Zero Requiem MUST continue no matter what. Besides, if he just uses his Geass to tell her to give him the key to Damocles and nothing more, then there shouldn't be too many future repercussions, right? Other than possibly losing his relationship with Nunnally, I mean.

I'm also really glad that Cornelia ended up being alive after all, though the fact that her Knight lived (forget his name for some odd reason), I thought was pretty improbable.

Edit:

Oh, one more thing. It really annoyed me how the Black Knights took such a foolish path. Just because they were bitter and thought that Lelouch had somehow geassed them into following him (which doesn't even make sense because if they were Geassed then they would still be following him even after knowing that), that they would side with Schneizel and his "reign of terror" as I see it, is unacceptable. They KNEW that Schneizel was willing to use FLEIA on anyone to achieve his goals, but they sided with him anyway, just for the mere sake of revenge. I must say, I was quite disappointed in Ohgi and the lot. Even Kallen siding against Lelouch really grates. None of them understand the Zero Requiem. I thought at least Kallen would understand, but I guess not.
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