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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 133 39.82%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 81 24.25%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 32 9.58%
7 out of 10 : Good 27 8.08%
6 out of 10 : Average 11 3.29%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 10 2.99%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 1.20%
3 out of 10 : Bad 3 0.90%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.30%
1 out of 10 : Painful 32 9.58%
Voters: 334. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-26, 20:50   Link #721
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glyph View Post
Family heirloom, sure. But who says she _gave_ the earring to him? She just lent it to him like in episode 6 as a good luck charm like before. He just couldn't be bothered to return them this time.
I know, that's why I consider Tak's statement to be a little outstretched

EDIT: Didin't see your edit. If it was Alto... Did my shipper mind just blow up right now?
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Old 2008-09-26, 20:51   Link #722
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
I know, that's why I consider Tak's statement to be a little outstretched
Not after the camera put a zoom on it. Ask yourself, why the focus? Seifall would love to deny anything to empower Sheryl, but if thats the intention of the show, then why the little details?

You also have to remember, after the deed is done, the ornament is returned to the woman, by the man. Sometimes to put it back on her where appropriate.

I don't think its a coincidence that Alto came from a Japanese family, hell, an old school Japanese family, at that.

- Tak
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Old 2008-09-26, 20:54   Link #723
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
You also have to remember, after the deed is done, the ornament is returned to the woman, by the man. Sometimes to put it back on her where appropriate.

I don't think its a coincidence that Alto came from a Japanese family, hell, an old school Japanese family, at that.

- Tak
Well, can't argue much there. Probably it's because Alto enjoy being a pretty man?

But glyph brings out a point that I always wondered, Sheryl did say she was lending him earring in 24... Or did she not? Might have imagined the line...
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Old 2008-09-26, 20:59   Link #724
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
Sheryl did say she was lending him earring in 24... Or did she not? Might have imagined the line...
Nope, she never said she was lending it to him. She just puts it on, and said "make sure you come back to me"

- Tak
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Old 2008-09-26, 21:02   Link #725
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Nope, she never said she was lending it to him. She just puts it on, and said "make sure you come back to me"

- Tak
Well that still bring the question whether she really gave it to him or just lending him. Better clear this up someone might attack the statement
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Old 2008-09-26, 21:37   Link #726
aneeshadc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
thats too bad, sorry i'm not helping very much
Nope, ur plenty helpful just that I * * , more specifically, my stupid laptop is unable to * want to so bad* to make use of your much desired help.

@ Natsuki, Tak
Oh man, I love the idea of Alto purposely not giving the earing back to her, if that's really true, Makes me feel all warm & fuzzy inside * giggles *
I already loved the salute even before i knew it was an homage to DYRL & gosh This earing thing just makes me feel soooo .....* sigh*

Back to topic, as far as I can recall, like Tak said, sheryl doesnt say anything abt the earing, she just puts it on him & tells him to return

Last edited by aneeshadc; 2008-09-26 at 21:53.
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Old 2008-09-26, 21:56   Link #727
golthin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seifall View Post
How is it that Alto salutes just Sheryl ?!
What's with that sparkle earring which symbolize Alto's love for Sheryl ?
What is with that " when a woman trust an ornament to a man it's symbolize " wedding in japan.
So all the high school girl who give ornament like watch to their boyfriend instead of chocolate for the valentine day symbolize their engagement to their man... Poor guys
I thought we could all agree that in this episode no one won for the LT but they all won for the fight except Grace and Leon.....
It was unresolved since he choose no one ,...
But if you now you want to see it from the beginning, no need to say who won....
People, really don't want to admit it??!!! Ok let me take take some pictures then ...
people are looking at symbolisms everywhere now for a symbolic win. Earring is engagement.
(sheryl and Alto have been engaged since she gave him the first earring, the only one that didn't know was Alto . Alto doesn't know much about Japanese culture and sheryl does even though she didn't know how to use chopsticks). both girls had their moments in episode 25, Ranka being rescued again and sheryl getting the salute.
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Old 2008-09-26, 21:59   Link #728
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golthin View Post
people are looking at symbolisms everywhere now for a symbolic win. Earring is engagement.
(sheryl and Alto have been engaged since she gave him the first earring, the only one that didn't know was Alto . Alto doesn't know much about Japanese culture and sheryl does even though she didn't know how to use chopsticks). both girls had their moments in episode 25, Ranka being rescued again and sheryl getting the salute.
O_o... Alto does not know much about Japanese culture...

Errr...

You do realize that he was raised to play Kabuki...

- Tak
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- FIFA Stadium Ticket? $500
- Witnessing Coach Joachim Lw crack a smile at the World-Cup Final? PRICELESS


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Get strong like ROCK! Not weak like Barack! Putincize now!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
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Old 2008-09-26, 22:03   Link #729
golthin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
O_o... Alto does not know much about Japanese culture...

Errr...

You do realize that he was raised to play Kabuki...

- Tak
I was being saracastic. you should have gotten it when I said sheryl knew about Japanese culture even though she doesn't know how to properly use chopsticks. It is just double sarcasm.
Of course Alto know about Japanese culture and sheryl doesn't.
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Old 2008-09-26, 22:06   Link #730
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneeshadc View Post
@ Natsuki, Tak
Oh man, I love the idea of Alto purposely not giving the earing back to her, if that's really true, Makes me feel all warm & fuzzy inside * giggles *
I already loved the salute even before i knew it was an homage to DYRL & gosh This earing thing just makes me feel soooo .....* sigh*

Back to topic, as far as I can recall, like Tak said, sheryl doesnt say anything abt the earing, she just puts it on him & tells him to return
Thanks for clarifying anee. I just feel that I'm not ready to call it symbolization like Tak does, since, well, I have stated that we still don't know whether Sheryl lend him or give it to him.

As of now, I feel that's the only weak point of the symbolization argument here, so Tak, get your ass off and do your work to convince this rebellious Sheryl fan!

@golthin

Emoticons makes a great job in sarcasms
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Old 2008-09-26, 22:13   Link #731
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Oh Kawamori, see what you have done. Now your fans are fighting over an earring.....and a salute!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
I am afraid you are absolutely mistaken. Alto indeed has military training. He was accepted into the SMS, trained in rank and file before flying his VF-25. The SMS (which stands for Strategic Military Services) is very involved with the military, and he addresses Ozma as captain in case you have forgotten.

- Tak
Alto and the group is more PMC than proper military to me. If you say SMS is para military then I will wholeheartedly agree. Their lack of formality and military decorum also reinforces it and besides they treat their warfighting as part time job as they still go to normal school (which I think totally silly, plot wise).
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Old 2008-09-26, 22:29   Link #732
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
Thanks for clarifying anee. I just feel that I'm not ready to call it symbolization like Tak does, since, well, I have stated that we still don't know whether Sheryl lend him or give it to him.
If Sheryl lend it to him, I'd imagine she saying something like handing it back. She did not, unlike last time.

When I viewed that scene, she was basically saying "Go, fulfill your duties, and then come back to me", with an emphasis on the last part. She entrusted him with that earring for 2 purposes:

1. Go, and if you don't come back, at least keep my memory with you to the very end
2. Go, and come back safely, to me (thus the engaged part)

- Tak
__________________
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- FIFA Stadium Ticket? $500
- Witnessing Coach Joachim Lw crack a smile at the World-Cup Final? PRICELESS


There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there is Master Card.


Get strong like ROCK! Not weak like Barack! Putincize now!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
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Old 2008-09-26, 22:31   Link #733
aneeshadc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga View Post
Thanks for clarifying anee. I just feel that I'm not ready to call it symbolization like Tak does, since, well, I have stated that we still don't know whether Sheryl lend him or give it to him.

As of now, I feel that's the only weak point of the symbolization argument here, so Tak, get your ass off and do your work to convince this rebellious Sheryl fan!
Oh I know that, I'm not wholly buying it either but I'm not gonna deny that I find the idea unbearably cute & endearing. That was just me slipping into fangirl mode & day dreaming, You have to admit it even makes for good juicy fanfic material.

Back to reality, I do need to be convinced abt its authenticity since I know nada abt japanese culture & the engagement thing is going tooo far.

For me the actual symbolism beyond it, was that there's still unfinished business b/w them, the conversation that they have yet to continue, Alto has yet to finish what he started to tell her in ep 24, it was a promise of new beginning for them.

The salute felt like pretty much the same thing to me, it felt like a reminder to Sheryl from Alto that he's done what she asked of him, he's saved ranka-chan & she'll have to listen to whatever it is he wants to tell her later. It just felt like unspoken communication b/w them.

I know I'm definitely reading too much into it, but can you blame me I love to think of it like that. My fangirl heart goes dokun dokun dokun.
Atleast I'm not stating my fangirl delusions as facts, unlike some
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Old 2008-09-26, 22:44   Link #734
musouka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneeshadc View Post
The salute felt like pretty much the same thing to me, it felt like a reminder to Sheryl from Alto that he's done what she asked of him, he's saved ranka-chan & she'll have to listen to whatever it is he wants to tell her later. It just felt like unspoken communication b/w them.
Yes, exactly.

It's how I felt about the original salute too.
Spoiler for DYRL:
That salute was a quiet second where he reaffirms his commitment to her before blasting off to take care of business. There's no reason to reference that scene solely for Sheryl if it's just meant as a throwaway moment. Him saluting both Ranka and Sheryl would be cute and also appropriate--but it was to Sheryl.
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Old 2008-09-26, 22:53   Link #735
Natsuki Hyuga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
If Sheryl lend it to him, I'd imagine she saying somBut to each of ething like handing it back. She did not, unlike last time.

When I viewed that scene, she was basically saying "Go, fulfill your duties, and then come back to me", with an emphasis on the last part. She entrusted him with that earring for 2 purposes:

1. Go, and if you don't come back, at least keep my memory with you to the very end
2. Go, and come back safely, to me (thus the engaged part)

- Tak
Oh, Tak, you and your fanboyism for AruShery... XD (Not that it's bad though) Personally I think you are reading too much on the earring symbolization on the 2nd option. But to each of his own I agree wholeheartedly for the 1st option though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aneeshadc View Post
Oh I know that, I'm not wholly buying it either but I'm not gonna deny that I find the idea unbearably cute & endearing. That was just me slipping into fangirl mode & day dreaming, You have to admit it even makes for good juicy fanfic material.

Back to reality, I do need to be convinced abt its authenticity since I know nada abt japanese culture & the engagement thing is going tooo far.

For me the actual symbolism beyond it, was that there's still unfinished business b/w them, the conversation that they have yet to continue, Alto has yet to finish what he started to tell her in ep 24, it was a promise of new beginning for them.

The salute felt like pretty much the same thing to me, it felt like a reminder to Sheryl from Alto that he's done what she asked of him, he's saved ranka-chan & she'll have to listen to whatever it is he wants to tell her later. It just felt like unspoken communication b/w them.

I know I'm definitely reading too much into it, but can you blame me I love to think of it like that. My fangirl heart goes dokun dokun dokun.
Atleast I'm not stating my fangirl delusions as facts, unlike some
For the authenticity, I believe I can vouch Tak's statement as a fact But maybe I would tone it down to deep trust for each other rather than engement I read too much shojo manga that I'm too afraid to really vouch it for engagement

I believe your reading of the scene is in a degree, (sorry Tak) is more sensible than Tak's. Not that I don't believe Tak's cannot become one symbolization though, just need more convincing than the reason he stated above. Probably in the movie later?

Fangirling something is okay, but when someone states it as a fact... Uh... /facepalm time?

By the way, I think we should move to Romance Thread after this post, since I'm smelling some Romance argumentation if we keep going into this way
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Last edited by Natsuki Hyuga; 2008-09-26 at 23:18. Reason: Clarifying thing...
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Old 2008-09-26, 23:07   Link #736
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From what we've gathered from Grace about the relationship of the Vajra ans Protoculture is that the Protoculture respected, feared and admired the Vajra.

This leads to theorize about some points seen on Macross Dynamite 7.

copy pasta from MW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Togo
The Protoculture admired, and perhaps even worshiped the Vajra. The APHOS was built to resemble the Vajra queen. Made in her image, so to speak. You'll see when the subs come out.
There's that.

As I've said in another thread while the Mayan origin story is an analogy of our evolution influenced by the Protoculture.

It does not mean it is the same for the Protoculture. Their animism beliefs involving fold capable species. (The Anima Spiritia?)

The Vajra are their Birdman while Vahl Ena or Space Whales are the Fishman.

While the AHPOS bears a resemblance to the Vajra queen, Zentran warships' organic design aesthetic is reminicent of Space Whales.

On Zola the ancient Ancestor writings on Whale bones in the Whale cemetary indicate the Zolans ancestors revered the Great White Whale as a god who cannot die. Existing for millions of years.

Those ancestral writings and illustration could very well be Protoculture itself recording the Vahl Ena migration.

Also note that the three eyed Zolan snake which is always around a Zolan's neck bears a resemblance to the Vajra larva.

Zolan snakes could be legacy of the Protoculture to the Zolans. Since Zolan snakes are telepathic and inteligent enough to read ancient writing.
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Old 2008-09-26, 23:13   Link #737
Jazzrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
If Sheryl lend it to him, I'd imagine she saying something like handing it back. She did not, unlike last time.

When I viewed that scene, she was basically saying "Go, fulfill your duties, and then come back to me", with an emphasis on the last part. She entrusted him with that earring for 2 purposes:

1. Go, and if you don't come back, at least keep my memory with you to the very end
2. Go, and come back safely, to me (thus the engaged part)

- Tak
Tak got it right in the first option. When Sheryl gave him the earring,i think she already knows her time is almost up. So the least she can do is to make sure Alto saves Ranka and stay alive with all the "I ll tell you when you get back" trick.
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Old 2008-09-26, 23:31   Link #738
justavisitor
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More Symbolism...

Hi all, first post (can't believe i register just for this)

Well, first i have to say that i favour Ranka more than Sheryl, so Sheryl fans...try ignore my first post plz

To all those symbolism, I have a counter example for Ranka Fans:

Spoiler for not for sheryl fans:


Rewatch that scene again and have a sweet dream, Ranka Fans!!!
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Old 2008-09-26, 23:36   Link #739
raile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Hi all, first post (can't believe i register just for this)

Well, first i have to say that i favour Ranka more than Sheryl, so Sheryl fans...try ignore my first post plz

To all those symbolism, I have a counter example for Ranka Fans:

Spoiler for not for sheryl fans:


Rewatch that scene again and have a sweet dream, Ranka Fans!!!

Okay...

But I have a counter to that.

Spoiler:
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Old 2008-09-26, 23:47   Link #740
golthin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raile View Post
Okay...

But I have a counter to that.

Spoiler:
Like i give for sheryl fans, I also give it for Ranka fans! the hand being a right hand doesn't mean anything. See how easy to see things that are not there when you have shipper goggles on. reaching with the hand is a gesture, doesn't mean he is choosing anyone!
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