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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 133 39.82%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 81 24.25%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 32 9.58%
7 out of 10 : Good 27 8.08%
6 out of 10 : Average 11 3.29%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 10 2.99%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 1.20%
3 out of 10 : Bad 3 0.90%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.30%
1 out of 10 : Painful 32 9.58%
Voters: 334. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-30, 20:20   Link #1201
justavisitor
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I don't want to call name, but Tak, you were to one to use super large font to urge ppl to stay away from this topic. Yet you just come back to talk about this "salute" things all over again?

Come on, I had higher expectation from you XD
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Old 2008-09-30, 20:24   Link #1202
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
I don't want to call name, but Tak, you were to one to use super large font to urge ppl to stay away from this topic. Yet you just come back to talk about this "salute" things all over again?

Come on, I had higher expectation from you XD
Unfortunately, I have a tendency to regain my vigor late in the afternoon. Seeing how I had nothing to do at work, and there just had to be more posts popping out regarding the salute, I guess I couldn't bloody help it.

Though with all honesty, I cannot believe this is required to be analyzed frame by frame. No Japanese fans voiced a single disagreement about it being a direct homage to DYRL, no Japanese fans even considered Ranka in this. I don't know why we are doing it, I don't know why I am doing it, although its obvious to me that something hinting the empowerment of Sheryl would be threatening to some of you. Whatever, I was bored.

- Tak (Hey, I am human too)
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Old 2008-09-30, 20:31   Link #1203
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radik View Post
Ranka simply continued to sing afterwards and ignored the salute.
And that made the difference. I'm glad that you pointed that out.

Really, you can argue about the distances and whatnot all day, but in the end it was also due to this very immediate, no BS detail that made the fans see this as a Sheryl and Alto moment paying homage to the Hikaru and Misa salute.

I can't believe this is such a big deal. It's not like the love triangle has been completely resolved for some people to get up in arms about it. If the movie doesn't resolve this, then yes, feel free to go nuts. Heck, I would even gladly join.
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Old 2008-09-30, 20:36   Link #1204
Tak
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Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
I can't believe this is such a big deal. It's not like the love triangle has been completely resolved for some people to get up in arms about it. If the movie doesn't resolve this, then yes, feel free to go nuts. Heck, I would even gladly join.
Anything that empowers Sheryl seem like a big friggin threat to some people. Like how some over at RC chose not to believe that Sheryl was Mao's granddaughter (despite the picture evidence, they still chose to believe it as a Grace ploy), even though it would not have amount much. After all, her powers weren't like Sara's, which were innate.

Look, if one cannot produce an argument through the use of fundamentals and must resort to semantics, then maybe its time to reconsider.

- Tak
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Old 2008-09-30, 20:43   Link #1205
justavisitor
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
By the same standard, I don't have a problem when Alto and Sheryl were inside the locker room together either .

Everything was fine until someone said Ranka ignored/didn't see/didn't respond the salute. I was just saying that had the director put Sheryl alone in the scene, than it would be a lot clearer. Then I just said it's unlikely that director goes all the trouble (put both in the scene) and tells us subtlely that Ranka didn't see it.

I am merely stating my assumption. I hope I am not in that "some Ranka fans" category you suggested
I think what i said was pretty fundamentals lol....The fundamental part is that had the director put Sheyrl alone in the scene, than it would be a lot clearer. It's unlikely that director goes all the trobule (put both in the scene) and tells us subtely that Ranka didn't see it (Besides, Ranka did have a nod either because of music or Alto) How can you say that we cannot produce an argument through the use of fundamentals ?

(since you are in the mood , Tak )
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Old 2008-09-30, 20:43   Link #1206
kujoe
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Look, if one cannot produce an argument through the use of fundamentals and must resort to semantics, then maybe its time to reconsider.
That reminds me of a philo teacher's lecture about being rational vs. rationalizing.
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Old 2008-09-30, 20:58   Link #1207
ani_d
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I feel like I have to post my final thoughts here on the series because I can't find a place more suitable.

Watching the episode with subs really made a difference. The whole episode seemed rush to me but watching it the second time, I guess I can forgive it. =/ There are a lot of loose ends to tie but that's what the movie is for.

I don't know what's the actual moral story here. I was expecting a more dramatic resolution to the Vajra hate but the acceptance came too easy. So they found humans weird and tried to rescue Ranka from them, that's why they killed a lot of humans. But now that they can understand the Vajra, all is forgiven? They just put everything on a mesh and untangled them in a very generic way. Considering how they pressed the matter in such a heavy way. I expected a better way to resolve things.

Another thing is, Alto finally came into terms with being an actor and being a pilot. I loved the scene where Alto applied Kabuki to himself when he heard Ranka's voice. Kabuki will always be a part of him and it showed that he didn't have to let go of it to be able to call himself a pilot. He let his real feelings surface and it made him fly. I'm proud to say Alto's usual flare in the battlefield came back at that time. He looked like a heavy burden was lifted off his chest. His stoic demeanor in ep 24 looked like a mask that he forcefully put in his face, and his insight looked so clouded in the battlefield. He just wasn't "flying".

It's interesting that right after his resolve to become princess charming in VF-25, the staff firebombed Ozma to go, "Let's go everyone! Charge Love heart!" Loved that.

I noticed last episode Alto told Sheryl that he'll come back to her because he realized that people must not fly alone, yet in this episode he said the opposite. Because people are alone, they can love somebody. That's where his true belief lies. Goes to show Sheryl really read right through him last episode.

Overall, I think the series is absolutely superb and I'm making my level of enjoyment as a basis for that. I loved how everything began, especially between Ranka and Alto and how everyone matured from the battlefield. I loved the idea of a ship having its own ecosystem. I sometimes find myself making a mental note to map out the place whenever they pan the camera along Frontier. It's so surreal and I wonder if it's really physically possible if given the right calculation. lol

Spoiler for My thoughts on the "Alto saluted to Sheryl and Sheryl alone" scene:
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Old 2008-09-30, 20:59   Link #1208
golthin
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Good Lord, we still on this? Can't we find something else to minutely argue? C'mon, I have trust in you, people...
lets move on. all that can be said have been said from both sides. all we can do is wait for the movie. It is just torture to have to wait for February (not confirmed but the most likely date for the movie).
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Old 2008-09-30, 20:59   Link #1209
NoOneKnowS
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The salute was for Alto. Ranka didn't even notice the salute coming from Alto. And Alto being in a military should have been pissed if he the person he saluted didn't salute back. But no, he was actually saluting to Sheryl. Thats why lol.
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Old 2008-09-30, 21:22   Link #1210
Tak
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Originally Posted by NoOneKnowS View Post
The salute was for Alto. Ranka didn't even notice the salute coming from Alto. And Alto being in a military should have been pissed if he the person he saluted didn't salute back. But no, he was actually saluting to Sheryl. Thats why lol.
Very good point. I don't know why I did not bring this up.

Look, it was absolutely not the producer's intention to have Alto saluted both girls, period. Basically, if some of you want to force that Alto saluted both girls argument, then Ranka pretty much has 2 options.

1. She is being a schmuck for ignoring the salute
2. She did not see Alto and therefore could not see the Salute.

Look at her reaction to the salute, she was still just hopping on stage. She clearly did not see it. If she did and not saluted back (no, you don't just nod in that situation), then it would have been a major offense.

- Tak
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Old 2008-09-30, 21:29   Link #1211
justavisitor
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Wow ani_d, you made the post of the century!!!

Now everything should be clear up, and when i need to say that infamous "salute incident" again, I would just say "refer to ani_d" post lol (I kid)

Thanks for clearing all this up.

Sincerely,
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Old 2008-09-30, 21:37   Link #1212
Elandyll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radik View Post
I'll just quote Mughi's explanation again here:
Except that Mughi only has half the story, and I have explained why what's actually happening makes it even more apparent that Sheryl and Alto are having a moment together. But whatever man.
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Old 2008-09-30, 21:45   Link #1213
glyph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_d View Post
I noticed last episode Alto told Sheryl that he'll come back to her because he realized that people must not fly alone, yet in this episode he said the opposite. Because people are alone, they can love somebody. That's where his true belief lies. Goes to show Sheryl really read right through him last episode.
You're missing the whole point. It's a direct retort to Grace trying to explain (before Alto cuts her off) why she wants to culture shock humanity to evolve into a single hive mind organism like the Vajra to solve the human condition at the cost of individuality.

Because we are individuals and ultimately alone (and not part of a hive mind), we are able to experience love for another distinct being, even if (because!) they are also alone and think different from ourselves (something that happens for the Vajra only once in aeons).

Not every thing in the show revolves around the confounded triangle and Alto's love life (or lack thereof).
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Old 2008-09-30, 21:57   Link #1214
Tak
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
Now everything should be clear up, and when i need to say that infamous "salute incident" again, I would just say "refer to ani_d" post lol (I kid)
Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by glyph View Post
Not every thing in the show revolves around the confounded triangle and Alto's love life (or lack thereof).
Ani_d feels threatened, what do you expect?

- Tak
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:14   Link #1215
raile
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Wow, people are still downplaying the salute? Ah well...

Do you guys think we'll have the mystery of Hikaru, Misa and co. cleared in the movie? ...Or do you think we'll have to wait for Macross' 50th anniversary, lol. XDD
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:32   Link #1216
Rafakun
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Meh, I couldn't care less about the salute other than a nice homage to DYRL. An amazing episode though, and THIS is what Macross is all about, it has always been, it will always be. For me it was a nice conclusion for the TV Show, and I predicted that Alto wouldn't pick anyone long ago (though for completely different reasons XD). Perfect 10 for me. Yeah, the lack of LT resolution didn't bother me in one bit, in fact I kinda liked how it ended.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raile View Post
Wow, people are still downplaying the salute? Ah well...

Do you guys think we'll have the mystery of Hikaru, Misa and co. cleared in the movie? ...Or do you think we'll have to wait for Macross' 50th anniversary, lol. XDD
Probably, more than likely not. I'm pretty sure the movie will be a resolution for the LT. If they throw in some megaroad-01 goodness, I'll be one happy fan.
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:40   Link #1217
raile
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Hmm, yeah the LT concrete resolution in the movie makes more sense... But one can still dream of Megaroad-01. XD
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:42   Link #1218
Teletha
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So Alto did salute both of them, but Ranka ignored it. So she obviously doesn't care if he salutes at her. You win this round Ranka fans. You proved your point. Woohoo! I agree with Tak, anything that is a positive for Sheryl people try to disprove or act like it didn't happen. I don't know why Ranka fans are so threatened to begin with. But did this forum go crazy? Please don't me this is what the Frontier fandom is going to be reduced to.

eta : I think he did salute Sheryl and that means they are going to have babies soon.

Last edited by Teletha; 2008-09-30 at 22:46. Reason: CONFIRMED!
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:54   Link #1219
Rafakun
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Originally Posted by Teletha View Post
So Alto did salute both of them, but Ranka ignored it. So she obviously doesn't care if he salutes at her. You win this round Ranka fans. You proved your point. Woohoo! I agree with Tak, anything that is a positive for Sheryl people try to disprove or act like it didn't happen. I don't know why Ranka fans are so threatened to begin with. But did this forum go crazy? Please don't me this is what the Frontier fandom is going to be reduced to.

eta : I think he did salute Sheryl and that means they are going to have babies soon.
I DO think that he saluted both, Sheryl saying "mission accomplished" and Ranka saying "Gonna go kick some Bird Human/Gracie ass". So yeah, I do think Alto has no idea who he loves the most, and as Ranka AND Sheryl said in the end, this is just the beginning.
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:04   Link #1220
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"Repeat a lie enough times and it becomes the truth."
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