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Old 2007-02-04, 14:27   Link #201
dojime
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Question Place for GitS: SAC 2nd Gig discussion/analysis?

I was googling for an anime forum to answer some questions and stumbled on animesuki, looks great but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of Ghost in the Shell series discussion here. Could somebody maybe point me to a good place to look, about 2nd gig in particular? The ending confused the hell out of me.
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Old 2007-02-04, 17:23   Link #202
MrProphet
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Why not discuss it here?
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Old 2007-02-04, 17:39   Link #203
dojime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrProphet View Post
Why not discuss it here?
Oh my bad, I did a 2nd gig search and didn't see there was an official thread. I guess my post got merged, thanks!

Here are my questions about the ending. Major spoilers obviously...

---

Were we told who PM Kayabuki finally contacted that seemed to be of such importance? If so it completely went over my head.

Shortly after the nuke was stopped there's the scene with Gohda on his cell telling someone that it doesn't matter, we can still use Kayabuki's actions to spur a Cold-War style military industrial complex (or something to that effect). But didn't Section 9 have enough evidence to expose the CIS' conspiracy and treason? I figured that threw a wrench in their plans, but did they have an out of some sort? I really loved the whole neo-conservative angle to this season's plot.

After Motoko finally blows Gohda's head off, suddenly there's some kind realization after they recognize the American operative he was working with. Motoko flies out the window in pursuit. Then they cut to Kuze being offed by someone who tells him his country doesn't need a charismatic figure like him. I didn't really get what happened here at all. Did Kuze land in the American Empire's hands?

The very last scene where the entire group is monitoring the Cherry Blossoms (?!). Everyone looks bored and waiting on Motoko's next move. Aramaki mentions something about a budget being passed in parliament, and finally Motoko gives the A-OK. I really didn't get the symbolism here, if there was any?
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Old 2007-02-04, 17:49   Link #204
smeg4brainsuk
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Not many discussions about it because everyone knows that GitS>everything else

On a side note what parts confused you?

Edit: just seen your post, i can reply later when im back from work lol
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Old 2007-02-04, 18:05   Link #205
MrProphet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dojime View Post
After Motoko finally blows Gohda's head off, suddenly there's some kind realization after they recognize the American operative he was working with. Motoko flies out the window in pursuit. Then they cut to Kuze being offed by someone who tells him his country doesn't need a charismatic figure like him. I didn't really get what happened here at all. Did Kuze land in the American Empire's hands?
I assumed that CIA killed Kuze. And Motoko has recognized the American as one of the CIA operatives from season 1.

Quote:
The very last scene where the entire group is monitoring the Cherry Blossoms (?!). Everyone looks bored and waiting on Motoko's next move. Aramaki mentions something about a budget being passed in parliament, and finally Motoko gives the A-OK. I really didn't get the symbolism here, if there was any?
This is scene is an almost exact replica of Chapter 1 of the original GITS manga. That's exactly how the original Section 9 story began, so the anime symbolically used it as an ending for the 2nd gig.
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Old 2007-02-05, 03:37   Link #206
smeg4brainsuk
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Ah well MrProphet beat me to it ^^

But yeah the ending of 2nd Gig is a really nice touch, they got everything just right, right down to the look of the tachikoma's
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Old 2007-02-05, 05:51   Link #207
Tinkerbell
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On the bright side, with Section 9 still active and the American Empire (or just the CIA? Someone correct me if I'm wrong) revealed to have been working with Gouda to reform Japan, it leaves a lot of space for a 3rd season. Yay!
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Old 2007-02-05, 07:16   Link #208
smeg4brainsuk
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Section 9 will live on forever!!!! (well at least it better do :P). Hopefuly after SSS is released on dvd in the west they might reveal some info about a new series or film ^^
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Old 2007-03-13, 20:12   Link #209
Jazzrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dojime View Post

Were we told who PM Kayabuki finally contacted that seemed to be of such importance? If so it completely went over my head.
I'm pretty sure she contacted the chief of their own airforce. I believe they hinted it when the US nuclear sub commander was looking out for the nuclear explosion and 2 jet fighter flew towards em bearing japanese flag. On that scene, she quote announced her plan for the country's future foreign policy.

IMO, instead of asking for foreign help... kayabuki mobilized her own forces therefore, pushing Japan towards being a true independent country. Gouda original intent was to push for a cold war between American Empire and China i think, using Japan and it's immigrant problem as a catalyst. Probably gaining profits through the military buildups from both country as what we seen from the US-Soviet cold war.
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Old 2007-06-17, 13:13   Link #210
Not_At
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There were some REALLY good songs used as BGM on last night's second GiG episode, but after listening to samples of all three OSTs plus Be Human, I can't find them anywhere!

The episode is 5 of the second season, Those Who Have the Motive/INDUCTANCE. The first song I like is where Aramaki is talking to the Gov't people in the neginning of the episode. It's starts off as a percussion/bongo piece but then transitions into this great dissonant sounding violin track with lots of strings.

The second song also has a really mysterious/minimalist sound....it plays when we first see Kuze and then Gouda working as his desk. I think this flute piece plays again when the PM recieves that present, lol.

I'll be really upset if this music isn't on any of the 5 OSTs that have been released. I guess right now I'm hoping that it's on the Solid State cd, because that's the only one I haven't heard samples for. But on the other hand, I might have missed it earlier.

And are there any sites that have a list of what music was played in each episode? I would really appreciate it. Thanks!
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Old 2007-06-17, 18:40   Link #211
Wosho128
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I'm not sure about music guides. But there is still a forum around that discusses specific Yoko Kanno music. Here is the link. Users on that forum talk about the little details of her music like where some songs first originated from and e.t.c. My point is; users on that forum might be able to help you track down those songs you're looking for since most users are big fanatics over there.

Oh, and the second season of this series was great. There are so many subplots but it's wonderful how the directors keep the series fresh.
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Old 2007-06-17, 19:42   Link #212
Twisted Reality
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lommm View Post
so a friend of mine was watching 2nd gig on dvd from netflix and she asked me this:

"why does the other person have to be a virgin prior to being turned into a cyborg?"

of all the questions one could have about 2nd gig, she said this was the only thing that confused her. the only thing!

at least it was from the episode with Batou and Gouda having an incomrehensible philosophical conversation about terrorism, ethics, morality, and life in general... you know, the one that confused everybody else when we were watching the subs...

anyway, when she asked me this, i didn't have an answer... so i was wondering if MrProphet or anyone else knew the answer...
They have to be virgins before becoming cyborgs to be susceptible to the Individual Eleven virus. My particular translation was kinda wonky, but I took this to mean that virgins are really more susceptible to making themselves martyrs. Gouda proposed that immature youth were more desirous of putting themselves in a cause that was larger than themselves. He reveals that he was basically the same way before his disfiguring injury. The shlub from episode 2 is pretty much an ideal case of the "virgin martyr."

My guess is that virgins have less familial obligations or likelihood of tying themselves down to a family. Being a cyborg tends to alienate you moreso from human contact. So instead, they look for meaning in other aspects of life. I think the Individual Eleven virus was just supposed to push them into becoming terrorists.

Also, the ravens in that scene were lead by a white raven. The white raven symbolically represents Kuze. Basically, Gouda and Batou were debating various aspects of the hero-myth. Gouda was trying to engineer his own social hero to manipulate for his own ends, particularly by making the refugee-nativist struggle worse .

Last edited by Twisted Reality; 2007-06-17 at 20:09.
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Old 2007-06-19, 23:44   Link #213
rpgman1
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Has anyone watch the Solid State Society movie on the Sci-Fi channel? I missed the first thirty minutes and wonder if anyone know what was going on in that movie.
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Old 2007-06-20, 07:36   Link #214
TinyRedLeaf
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^ I think you're more likely to find what you're looking for here:

Ghost in the Shell: Solid State Society
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Old 2007-07-10, 12:25   Link #215
Karnot
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Can someone explain how Togusa sometimes "mindspeaks" with others, when he is supposed to be "pure" flesh-and-bones human, without any cyber attachments ???
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Old 2007-07-10, 18:45   Link #216
MrProphet
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Motoko has a cyberbrain. Togusa has a cyberbrain.

Motoko is a cyborg. Togusa is not a cyborg.

See the difference? Apart from a cyberbrain, Togusa is completely human. Motoko (Batou, Ishikawa, Pazu, etc.) is a complete cyborg. Unlike Togusa, the only parts of them that are human are their brain and spinal cord.

A cyberbrain is an implant that allows a human to interface with the network. "Mental communication" requires a cyberbrain. It does not require any other prosthetics or replacements.
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Old 2007-07-10, 20:51   Link #217
Cal-Reflector
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrProphet View Post
Motoko has a cyberbrain. Togusa has a cyberbrain.

Motoko is a cyborg. Togusa is not a cyborg.

See the difference? Apart from a cyberbrain, Togusa is completely human. Motoko (Batou, Ishikawa, Pazu, etc.) is a complete cyborg. Unlike Togusa, the only parts of them that are human are their brain and spinal cord.

A cyberbrain is an implant that allows a human to interface with the network. "Mental communication" requires a cyberbrain. It does not require any other prosthetics or replacements.
Other thoughts and questions on cyborg bodies and brains:

The interceptor implant, which is at the forefront of Big Brother surveillance technology in the future, requires a cyberbrain, correct?

I suspect lose their sense of taste, and possibly smell as well. Batou cannot get drunk because his body breaks down any alcohol he consumes.

Cyborgs do not need to eat, correct?

Do Cyborgs need to sleep?

Cyborgs lose their reproductive functions, so combined with alot of the drawbacks/advantages above, becoming a cyborg might not be such a great idea after all. What percentage of the world's population in GITS GIG2 time has adopted cyborg bodies, you think?
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Old 2007-07-10, 21:37   Link #218
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrProphet
See the difference? Apart from a cyberbrain, Togusa is completely human. Motoko (Batou, Ishikawa, Pazu, etc.) is a complete cyborg. Unlike Togusa, the only parts of them that are human are their brain and spinal cord.
What about Saito, the sniper? I seem to recall that only his master eye is prosthetic. I may have remembered wrongly. In any case, is he a cyborg too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector
Other thoughts and questions on cyborg bodies and brains:

I suspect lose their sense of taste, and possibly smell as well. Batou cannot get drunk because his body breaks down any alcohol he consumes.

Cyborgs do not need to eat, correct?

Do Cyborgs need to sleep?

Cyborgs lose their reproductive functions, so combined with alot of the drawbacks/advantages above, becoming a cyborg might not be such a great idea after all. What percentage of the world's population in GITS GIG2 time has adopted cyborg bodies, you think?
I would think if your whole body was mechanical, then certain biological functions like eating, (crapping), and reproduction can be turned "on" and "off" at will. They don't necessarily "lose" their physical senses. Rather, I think the senses are reproduced through artificial means.

I'm no doctor, but if cyborgs still possess an organic brain, then I think they would need sleep sooner or later. They might be able to "inject" stimulants to stay awake, but their brains would need rest sooner or later, no?

Then again, I'm not altogether certain how much of their organic "brain" remains after augmentation. I vaguely recall that only a few brain cells are left after they become cyborgs. The rest of their brains are augmented.

That was what led Motoko to muse (I'm not sure if it was in the movie or the manga) whether she still had a "unique" identity. The idea being that our sense of identity is derived from more than just a sum of our minds and bodies. So, if our bodies were artificial, to what extent can we still claim to be unique individuals?
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Old 2007-07-11, 00:52   Link #219
MrProphet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector View Post
The interceptor implant, which is at the forefront of Big Brother surveillance technology in the future, requires a cyberbrain, correct?
"Interceptor implant"? I am not familiar with the term.

Quote:
I suspect lose their sense of taste, and possibly smell as well. Batou cannot get drunk because his body breaks down any alcohol he consumes.
Motoko and others retain the sense of touch (and other senses as well). She cannot get drunk because he cannot digest spirits, but he certainly can taste them if necessary.

Although, the purpose of tasting alcohol is rather soundly defeated.

Quote:
Cyborgs do not need to eat, correct?
They certainly need to eat, but they cannot eat anything. Only special "cyborg food".

Quote:
Do Cyborgs need to sleep?
They don't require it, but they can, either out of force of habit, or to simulate a normal life cycle.

Quote:
Cyborgs lose their reproductive functions, so combined with alot of the drawbacks/advantages above, becoming a cyborg might not be such a great idea after all. What percentage of the world's population in GITS GIG2 time has adopted cyborg bodies, you think?
Not many. Japan has a large rate of cyberisation because of the lack of inherent religious and moral boundaries, but prosthetics-enabled humans remain a distinct minority.

Cyborgs are used primarily by the government (law-enforcement and military) as well as in the field of medicine. While the cyborg technology is very advanced, it has not spread due to staggering costs of installing prosthetics.

However, the majority of the population has installed cyberbrains. To avoid confusion, a cyberbrain is a micromachine computer terminal that is connected directly into the central nervous system and the brain. This technology is extremely prevalent. In fact, those who, for whatever reason, refuse to connect via the cyberbrains are considered "stand alone" (thus the title of the TV series).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
What about Saito, the sniper? I seem to recall that only his master eye is prosthetic. I may have remembered wrongly. In any case, is he a cyborg too?
Everyone in Section 9 except for Togusa and Aramaki is a partial cyborg. Some more that others. Saito has less that Motoko or Batou (who are complete cyborgs), but he has quite a lot more than just the eye.

Quote:
They might be able to "inject" stimulants to stay awake, but their brains would need rest sooner or later, no?
The "brain" doesn't need rest. In fact, your brain doesn't even have nervous endings and cannot "feel". The body certainly needs rest for the purposes of anabolism and the brain is a control mechanism that tells the body when it needs to shut down.

Last edited by MrProphet; 2007-07-11 at 01:05.
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Old 2007-07-11, 01:24   Link #220
Karnot
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Quote:
Togusa has a cyberbrain.
He was supposed to not have ANYTHING cybernetic inside his body, that was why he was asked to join S9, rewatch the original movie, they clearly say so, that he doesnt want anything done to him at all.
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