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Old 2008-10-11, 03:34   Link #361
golthin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
am i reading a romance thread here? pity because of one person's comment, everyone was agitated, ignore it, its off topic, lets go talk about the movie, yes?
joachim, talking about the movie goes hand on hand with talking about many other things. what Kawamori thinks about the romance and how he might change things from the TV series to the movie. why is kawamori interview so important and relevant to the movie? He might change things this time to be his true vision, instead of being influenced by all the people that worked with him.

the Minmay from the DYRL was very different from the one in SDFM. the things he had planned for Sheryl changed a lot during the TV series. two possibilities for the movie, He could change Ranka to be completely different from the TV series and leave Sheryl as she is; or he could change Sheryl to his original vision and leave ranka the same.
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Old 2008-10-11, 09:08   Link #362
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and maybe alto's character development will be better
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Old 2008-10-11, 12:17   Link #363
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Originally Posted by golthin View Post
the Minmay from the DYRL was very different from the one in SDFM. the things he had planned for Sheryl changed a lot during the TV series. two possibilities for the movie, He could change Ranka to be completely different from the TV series and leave Sheryl as she is; or he could change Sheryl to his original vision and leave ranka the same.
That sounds all fine and dandy, except the director had one major problem:

He didn't know what to do with both characters. Basically, this man said he lost track of both characters during the series' process, and did not know how to handle the situation, thus he got someone who was better than him to fix the problem.

- Tak
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Old 2008-10-11, 12:38   Link #364
golthin
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
That sounds all fine and dandy, except the director had one major problem:

He didn't know what to do with both characters. Basically, this man said he lost track of both characters during the series' process, and did not know how to handle the situation, thus he got someone who was better than him to fix the problem.

- Tak
That is very true, but that was after he made the changes to Sheryl. He already had Sheryl's Role planned , but people within his staff saw more potential to the character. At the end, due to all the changes he made to her, he had to let someone else take the reins. At the end, sheryl became something he didn't plan for and didn't know how to handle. The character that was supposed to help Ranka Grow up became something else. He didn't replace Sheryl with another sisterly figure thus why she never was able to grow up.
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Old 2008-10-11, 12:49   Link #365
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Heck, possibilities, possibilities. We can muster up tones of them right now. Kawamori may well change the designs of VF-25 if he wants. He can even make Alto a girl and have an updated version of his 'dream come true' love love triangle.

We can say that he was so surprised with how Frontier turned out, how much attention and support Sheryl and Alto received and how 'good they looked' together that he wanted to recreate Frontier into something that could have a better ending for two of them. The way series developed had no real chances to have a proper resolution and besides, they already had the script for the ending. All of this may be true or complete nonsense for all we know.
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Old 2008-10-11, 12:59   Link #366
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Originally Posted by golthin View Post
That is very true, but that was after he made the changes to Sheryl. He already had Sheryl's Role planned , but people within his staff saw more potential to the character. At the end, due to all the changes he made to her, he had to let someone else take the reins. At the end, sheryl became something he didn't plan for and didn't know how to handle. The character that was supposed to help Ranka Grow up became something else. He didn't replace Sheryl with another sisterly figure thus why she never was able to grow up.
Not really, Kawamori stated that Sheryl pretty much became an older sister figure to Ranka. He achieved that.

What he did not realize, was that this woman carried the burden of the show all the way through the very end, and her development with Alto sort of placed everyone else on the sidelines. This incident made things go a bit... nuts.

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Originally Posted by zalem View Post
And episode 22 is up to interpretation as to whether there even was a kiss let alone whether Alto was the one to initiate that one. I'm not convinced. Given Alto's dense nature, I have a hard time seeing him initiate anything.
Alto was the one who moved up, and placed his big arms around Sheryl

Never mind that most Japanese posters on the BBS were like "they did it, they did it!!"

To say that he does not initiate anything is also not true, after all, he is the one who always goes to see her.

- Tak
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Old 2008-10-11, 14:11   Link #367
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Not really, Kawamori stated that Sheryl pretty much became an older sister figure to Ranka. He achieved that.

What he did not realize, was that this woman carried the burden of the show all the way through the very end, and her development with Alto sort of placed everyone else on the sidelines. This incident made things go a bit... nuts.
- Tak
That happened in episode 25, which happen to be what he had originally scripted. She and Ranka were Rivals for most of the series, specially during episode 18 to 21. due to the changes he made, Sheryl and Ranka became Rivals for Alto's affection. There are many intenses where this rivalry showed up. The duet in the observatory(a fight for Alto attention). Sheryl stealing Alto's first kiss from Ranka during the filming of the macross zero movie(Sheryl jealosy), Sheryl beating Ranka to a better birthday present and Ranka actually giving Alto a better one when she saved his life. sheryl's hug in the roof which caused Micheal and many people death. I really didn't see them as sisters for most of the series, they look like sisters in episode 25 and there still was that moment of rivalry when Ranka challenged sheryl professionally and romantically .
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Old 2008-10-11, 14:17   Link #368
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Originally Posted by golthin View Post
Sheryl stealing Alto's first kiss from Ranka during the filming of the macross zero movie(Sheryl jealosy)
Eh, Sheryl was not jealous, because there was nothing to be jealous of at the time. Moreover, Alto didn't even want to be where Ranka was at. He was there because Sheryl went. I'd argue that jealousy actually started after episode 12, but even so, Sheryl never vented out her frustration on anyone.

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Originally Posted by golthin View Post
I really didn't see them as sisters for most of the series, they look like sisters in episode 25 and there still was that moment of rivalry when Ranka challenged sheryl professionally and romantically .
Kawamori believes he achieved making Sheryl look like a big sister because throughout the series, as a big sisterly figure, Sheryl always kept in mind of Ranka. She encouraged her in her first presence in a movie, her career in singing and her other ventures into the entertainment world. She never once puts her down, not in front of her or anyone else. Even upon facing imminent death she still cared for Ranka and wanted to save her.

Unfortunately, Ranka never returned the same respect and love to Sheryl. Worse, by the end of 25, she showed no remorse nor responsibility for her actions and behavior.

- Tak
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Old 2008-10-11, 14:36   Link #369
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more likely than not, Ranka will have better characterization in the movie. Very much like how Minmei got a personality makeover in DYRL.
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Old 2008-10-11, 14:40   Link #370
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So you are suggesting she will get an upgrade from whining innocent child to whining innocent teenager?
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Old 2008-10-11, 14:43   Link #371
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lol, not i'm saying she'll be more sympathetic or something near the end. Like more scenes of the military trying to use her as a weapon or something so we feel sorry for her.
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Old 2008-10-11, 15:01   Link #372
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I actually feel sorry for her when the Vajra starts attacking the city right after her concert. I understand that it must be hell to be in her position, with the fate of her people on her shoulders. I can only imagine how hard that must be, so I don't blame her for spacing out or for the failure of her song during that time. As minor as it may seem to be, seeing Sheryl with Alto is a shock to her nonetheless.

The problem for me is her attitude. I guess I just want her to have at least some sense of personal responsibility. It doesn't help that as she recovers from shock she thinks about how the warmth of Alto's hand reminds her of Brera... all the while Nanase has been injured and is rescued away.

I don't think that making the viewers feel sorry for her is the right way to go. In fact, it's already hard to feel sorry for her when she's lovestruck most of the time. She has to do something, or be something, that viewers can truly admire and cheer her for. The problem is, I think that requires a major rewrite.

Last edited by kujoe; 2008-10-11 at 15:36.
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Old 2008-10-11, 15:08   Link #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Unfortunately, Ranka never returned the same respect and love to Sheryl. Worse, by the end of 25, she showed no remorse nor responsibility for her actions and behavior.

- Tak
Actually, she's the perfect 'little sister' in a Jan Brady kind of way... 'Marsha Marsha Marsha!!!'
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Old 2008-10-11, 15:14   Link #374
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I actually feel sorry for her when the Vajra starts attacking the city right after her concert. I understand that it must be hell to be in her position, with the fate of her people on her shoulders.
That depends on if she was actually aware that she shouldered the fate of her people. Most of the time, as indicated in the show, she simply wasn't.

I cannot feel sorry for her because if there was anything she saw in humanity, it was pretty much just Alto. In Ranka vision, he was the only person out of the masses that Ranka could distinguish as an individual. Most of the time when she went onto missions, she did it for him, thus making her responsibility quite light considering the feelings of rest of humanity were more or less a by product of her desire to do everything for Alto.

- Tak
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Old 2008-10-11, 16:16   Link #375
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
I cannot feel sorry for her because if there was anything she saw in humanity, it was pretty much just Alto. In Ranka vision, he was the only person out of the masses that Ranka could distinguish as an individual. Most of the time when she went onto missions, she did it for him, thus making her responsibility quite light considering the feelings of rest of humanity were more or less a by product of her desire to do everything for Alto.

- Tak
You can blame that on the shitty writers.
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Old 2008-10-11, 16:41   Link #376
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You can blame that on the shitty writers.
On the contrary, they did a pretty damn good job... Ranka just so happened to get the short end of the stick.
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Old 2008-10-11, 16:48   Link #377
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I don't understand why ppl are blaming Ranka for messing up when Vajra attacks inside Frontier (the episode Micheal dies)

She did feel sad when she thought Alto and Sheryl embraced each other, that's understandable. She then refused to sing, but after Sheryl's "encouragement" XD, she decided to sing. Now I guess the critics come and say she messed up and got Vajra enraged instead, but the question is, did Ranka know the reason why she messed up? At that episode, no one knows why the song didn't work. Luca thought it wasn't loud enough (from the sub I watched) and Sheryl didn't know either. Only Grace knows the emotion wasn't in the song and that's why Ranka messed up. I think Ranka has already tried her best to do the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
The problem for me is her attitude. I guess I just want her to have at least some sense of personal responsibility. It doesn't help that as she recovers from shock she thinks about how the warmth of Alto's hand reminds her of Brera... all the while Nanase has been injured and is rescued away.
But She has lost the memory...and no one can control it when the memory suddenly pops up...that's the standard in nowaday's drama and anime lol...and everyone seems to forget that in the next episode, Ranka stands alone, sings alone despite facing millions of Vajra in the sky. And at that time, she still doesn't know why she messed up and this "didn't know why the song failed to work" element just greatly increases her risk, because she doesn't know how Vajra would respond anymore. But the fact that she still wants to do it shows that she does have a sense of responsibility.

So ppl can question why she refused to sing until Sheryl's "encouragement". She probably got confused but I think ppl are being too harsh by saying she caused chaos into Frontier...sry for the long post
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Old 2008-10-11, 17:11   Link #378
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
But She has lost the memory...and no one can control it when the memory suddenly pops up...that's the standard in nowaday's drama and anime lol...
Like I said, I'm just criticizing her for her attitude. Nanase's plight doesn't even snap her out of it. But she sees Alto, she likes the warmth of his hand. The rest are simply things that are out of her control. I understand that, and I'm not even blaming her for that attack.

I also try to understand or imagine the turmoil of what she's going through. I think she's somewhat aware of the burden that's has been laid on to her. I mean, if she weren't, then she wouldn't complain and lament the fact that she's been used as a weapon in the first place. I do think however, that her heart has been in the wrong place when it comes to such a responsibility. She just wants to sing for Alto, and that's it.

With Nanase getting injured, Sheryl singing for the refugees, Michael's death, it's so hard to feel good or sorry for her at this point when everybody else—soldier and civilian alike—are on the same boat, trying to survive. As a viewer, I can't help but respond this way to such events, or drama as you yourself put it.
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Old 2008-10-11, 22:51   Link #379
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Like I said, I'm just criticizing her for her attitude. Nanase's plight doesn't even snap her out of it. But she sees Alto, she likes the warmth of his hand. The rest are simply things that are out of her control. I understand that, and I'm not even blaming her for that attack.
There are ppl who blame the whole incident on Ranka lol...I know it's not you, I am just using your post to bring up some of my points. I should have stated it more clearly in my previous post. Sorry

What I am trying to say is that, under that extreme situation, Ranka has already tried to do the best she can. Yes, it may be reasonable to question her why she refused to sing in the first place (I think she got confused), but, from my point of view, ever since she accepts to sing, she has done nothing wrong. And she has shown that she has a sense of responsiblity by singing alone in front of millions of Vajra in the next eposide.

As for the moment when Nanesse gets injured, I think Ranka is too shocked, and she can't think of anything. When Alto holds her hand, her memory pops up and she can't control that lol.

Just my thought XD
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Old 2008-10-12, 06:04   Link #380
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Eh, Sheryl was not jealous, because there was nothing to be jealous of at the time. Moreover, Alto didn't even want to be where Ranka was at. He was there because Sheryl went.
- Tak
I think Sheryl IS jealous during ep10 after Alto said he was doing the kiss scene. Note the frown she had on her face when Alto said a kiss is nothing to him. That was even before the original Mao's actress got injured(?) and Ranka was asked to stand in.

Alto is just shy though about being seen together with Sheryl.
I wouldnt brag about it either if my gf was the galactic fairy, imagine the uproar and the horde of paparrazi it would attract
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