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Originally Posted by Deliberation
I for one thinks Lelouch is alive but maybe he's not the cart driver. My book is about him being alive or dead is 50/50. Because there are evidence that points out he might be dead but at the same there are are evidence with him being alive.
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:P If you're going to say that, then please provide said evidence.
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner
C.C.'s final lines: 'The power of Geass brings one solitude. Well, that's not quite right. Isn't it, Lelouch?' And while saying that, she doesn't seem sad one bit and she isn't crying. I doubt she would be ecstatic is she had to spend eternity alone and on the run.
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Alone, perhaps; on the run, no. As for C.C. not crying, you might want to consider the scene where she's praying for Lelouch and talking about him atoning for his sins
during his death. Given this, it is much more plausible to attribute C.C.'s happiness to vaguely the same cause as Kallen's.
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Either way, Lelouch was able to pull his plan off. Whether you want to believe he's alive or dead, that's up to you. I prefer to think he's alive and spending eternity with C.C. It's your right to pick which option you want to believe. Just don't go forcing it on everyone. And remember, the Japanese love open-ended endings.
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Heh, well no, of course I can't go around forcing my opinion on everyone. What I can do, however, is go around expressing my opinion on
their opinions, and force them to actually back them up. Since, as far as I'm concerned, I've never felt it was one bit ambiguous that Lelouch was dead, and I've only even watched through the whole episode once--
that is how weak all the "Lelouch is alive" speculation has been thus far.
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Don't bust an artery over this. Just enjoy the ending for what it was and the series for what it was, be glad you got to see it all, then move on.
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Damn straight, I loved the ending. Totally redeemed Lelouch's character for me. Precisely why I'm going to take a bit of time to stop people from blindly turning him into a douchebag.
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Originally Posted by pokeu
In truth, we couldn't tell from the scene. Just as with C.C.'s playback memmories, her eyes looked pretty dead to me, but thats subjective.
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Are you kidding me? C.C. wasn't even dead in that shot. She's sitting up, her eyes are closed, and there are no gray shadows. The fact remains, all characters who have recieved gray shadows under their eyes have died, and no (still immortal) immortal has ever been shown with those shadows.
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In truth, this is also too ambiguous to discern if he was immune to it or not. Otherwise viewers would be "HAHAHAHA LELOUCHE YOU FAILED"... but nope, we all thought he somehow got it in, but maybe it didn\t work? And would Lelouche be fooled as easily if some of us here weren't?
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Actually bother to read the evidence. As I said, the
same animation was shown twice for Charles recieving Lelouch's geass that episode--once before he died, and once after. In both cases, the geass failed.
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Then why did C.C. go after Lelouche? She lost sight of what she wanted? Cared for the world? Been lying to everyone? Perfect fail of an immortal character? Things can be stated flat out in any of the turns and not make sense if taken as a whole. Sure in that particular turn it made sense, but its absolute rubbish if you ask me. She went after Lelouche so that the Ragnarok Connection would not be complete. She went after Lelouche because she actually thought about the world. She went for Lelouche because it was her own will to do it. Aww whatever, most probably a failed plot anyway.
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Indeed, plot rubbish. There are probably vague explanations offered within the show, but nonetheless this is irrelevant to whether Lelouch is alive or dead.
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And did II say anything about needing Lelouche to keep his geass? No, in fact, I believe he lost it. =D
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This was in response to some earlier posted theories as to how Lelouch could 'supposedly' have both a Code and Geass at the same time. Glad we agree its bollux.
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No evidence for this. We cannot tell from V.V.'s almost dead state.
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V.V. says "I will take on that fate...the fate of immortality." Given that he'd been immortal for some 50 odd years already, it's clear that his memories had been reverted.
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Hmm I thought they made it pretty clear that Mao didn't want C.C. to die, he wanted her 'alive'. Ironically enough... if C.C. wanted to give her code away, she could have done so with CHARLES... so whatever, that plot kind of failed too, just to jam in some action with.... "WHAT IF HE CAN READ YOUR MIND LELOUCHE!?" and how to beat it.
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C.C. wasn't interested in killing her contractor either. Regardless, given that the generally proposed theory is that Lelouch obtained Charle's Code
within approximately five minutes of reaching dual Geass, his actual capacity to do so is more than questionable.
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Thats pure speculation. She can take his code too no? In ths case, we cannot tell, too much ambiguity, more plot holes, sad to say, the series failed to cover up properly, whatever.
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Heh, sure whatever. This isn't particularly relevant to my point anyway.
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And why would they if they want to keep it ambiguous? Truth is, the scene hardly made any sense other than.... quite clearly... Charles lunged at Lelouche and grabbed him with his right hand.. which bears his sigil of the code. For fun? yeah, whatever, keep fans guessing, so on so forth.
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For fun? Certainly. Unless you are trying to imply that Charles was
trying to give Lelouch his Code
Let's see you try to explain that one.
What? No. Who ever said C.C. had planned it? C.C.'s last line obviously reflects a betrayal of her expectations (that geass would make Lelouch lonely), so obviously it wasn't "just as planned".
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As you said... indeed it is shocking. WOW Maybe we need some reality check and admit that code geass is indeed full of plotholes?
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Indeed, Geass leaves many things unexplained. One thing it
doesn't leave unexplained, however, is that Lelouch is
dead. Listen: 'plotholes' are unintentional. This means they were neither planned by the authors nor expected to affect disparate parts of the plot. All pro "Lelouch got a Code" speculation has relied exclusively on unintended interpretations of scenes, many of which aren't so open ended as people think they are. The fact that "Lelouch is alive" interpretations rely
exclusively on these plotholes,means that they are completely non-canon.
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Yeah whatever, the case we should be discussing are plotholes to be exploited, given so much ambiguity all over apart from this guy's face, and I never really gave a crap about that tommorow rubbish of Lelouche, because he wasn't needed for it to happen. In such a story full of holes, you never know what is sure thing and what is rubbish.
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Heh, so you don't even care about what has defined Lelouch's entire character? I wonder why you're even bothering to argue he's alive, then.
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Here's another one to swallow... about the death scenes argument. Suzaku should have died. There was no cockpit ejection. The Lancelot was never fitted with one, maybe then it was in the Albion, but whatever, in the scene of the explosion, it was clearly shown that nothing flew through the back of it with respect to the position of the KMF. If ya want a similar scene of death, in S1... Inoue was blown up in a similar manner, she remained dead. Countless others died in a similar manner as well... why did Suzaku survive? Live command by the geass does not grant bodily immunity.
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Figure this one out yourself, since it was explicitly stated Suzaku's apparent death was a requirement for Zero Requiem. Regardless, this is completely irrelevant to Code Geass' schema for actual, permanent death scenes, where a character recieves several minutes of touching dialogue while having dark shadows under their eyes.
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Wow, you win, nice pwnage eyes you've got there, wow. Even now I still feel a little blind for not being able to see his whiskers clearly... ahh some lighter textures over his mouth and under his nose... couldn't have been the angle of the sun even though the shadows casted by the horses heads were similar to that of his hat to his nose.
In reality, he wasn't masked at all. He needed a mask on all the time, even in the country to survive, whether or not he was alone, whatsoever. Lelouche kept C.C. in his plans, but totally out of the line of fire of the public by keeping her appearances off the media.
This is most probably your line of thought, or would be in attempt to justify C.C.'s apparent lack of disguise. And Jeremiahs...
Ok whatever.
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Heh, what? This isn't even comprehensible.
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Yeah she must have anticipated or known that the old man was supposedly 'deaf' or something to be muttering something out loud with some one so close by, to talk about geass (ok maybe they don't no jack about that...) and... to show her approval of Lelouch(which the whole world cept those who knew him have already condemned beyond anything... as can be shown with Cornelia's line... "THE DEMON KING IS DEAD, RELEASE THE HOSTAGES AT ONCE!")
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Heh, what's an old man gonna do to her? She's immortal, remember?
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Whatever, if it was really an old man... they needn't have chucked his face out in the next shot. And besides... i'm now downloading a higher res version of the episode... to show clearly what a lower res version already did.... there is indeed a white mask like little bit of cloth in the inside of his collar. There is no harm is showing bits of his gruffy whiskered face in this shot... so why did the animators do it? Fun? More plot holes exploitation? whatever?
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Don't worry, I've had the HD version from the start. That white spot is clearly the collar
as seen in my previous picture. What is even your point in bringing that up, though? We have already established that the wagon driver is some old guy with white whiskers,
not Lelouch.
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