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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 789 63.68%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 163 13.16%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 95 7.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 67 5.41%
6 out of 10 : Average 17 1.37%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 18 1.45%
4 out of 10 : Poor 7 0.56%
3 out of 10 : Bad 7 0.56%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 4 0.32%
1 out of 10 : Painful 72 5.81%
Voters: 1239. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-30, 22:14   Link #3421
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You wanna know the one reason I'd like to think Lelouch is alive?

So that he finally loses his freaking virginity and that C.C. finally gets laid for the first time in around 600 years! Honestly.
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:17   Link #3422
Naraku
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Originally Posted by Magin View Post
hm, I'm curious about one thing-

How long was lelouch actually Emperor for? I don't think it could've been much longer than 4~5 months, even with all the timeskips

if this were to continue, people will remember it as the dark before the dawn... but then, eventually forget about all that too as more crises arise. Such is human nature due to short lives, sadly... a peace though, if temporarily, being obtained was what it was all about

and a few years down the road, lelouch sees from wherever he is that all his hard work was for nothing....
Honestly I think this is what Lelouch had intended... He attempted to change the way the world viewed Britannians and how they viewed those who were from other (once "numbered" areas)...

He set out to do in fact exactly as you said, not obtain permanent world peace but to finally bring a closing chapter to an era that had so much resentment that it would have almost been impossible to overcome it in one life time or so without bringing the world together under one roof so to speak... They shared heart break, misery, and renewed happiness together at the same time...

Effectively bringing a close to the Era that Charles had begun (or brought to it's worse and darkest times)...
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:18   Link #3423
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Originally Posted by nutype
i would also think this would be an interesting thing to know. For one thing the Japanese are from a different culture where 99% of the population do not ascribe to the Judeo-Christian beliefs....so this whole lelouche stuff sacrificing himself as a mimicry of jesus is something they might not buy at face value. I know I didnt.
I do not understand the intention of this post. How has religion get into code geass?
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:22   Link #3424
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@mrboldy, Naraku

Continued story.

damn, i was just rewatching some of the episodes, like the emperor rocket episode, and i was just thinking, some of all those ethics and morals that they blabber all the time, its difficult to understand (for me) without totally pausing the episode and thinking for 5 seconds >_<
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:22   Link #3425
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Well, given the ambigious nature of the ending, I can't say whether Lelouch's still alive or not - if I say one thing I'll only get an argument against that, and if I say the other, I'll still get an arguement against that as well so there's no point in making such an answer.

But I honestly feel that, even if he survived (whether it be through the intervention of Code or something else), given his actions and comments he made I'm of the opinion that he never considered the possibility that he would survive.

Exactly where did the basis that the Code would activate upon death come from?
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:27   Link #3426
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Just think of Lelouch as Kane lol.

Seriously, Kane has been vaporized by an ion cannon, TWICE! lol, he's been impaled by fallen debris, he's been killed so many times yet he still comes back! That's the nature of awesome villains and heroes. No matter what happens if the franchise makes a come back you can bet your ass they'll be there lol. Characters can always be written back in specially if you leave their deaths ambiguous.
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:33   Link #3427
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hm... here's another good question-

assuming lelouch actually did live- would he really want to be alive? I think he'd just become an empty shell, even with CC around, because he'd planned on dying after Zero Requiem
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:33   Link #3428
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
You wanna know the one reason I'd like to think Lelouch is alive?

So that he finally loses his freaking virginity and that C.C. finally gets laid for the first time in around 600 years! Honestly.
Ahem to that brother ahem to that even shitty kira from gundam seed got more action than lelouch half way through the first season. I am also going for they are alive out of my extreme desire to see them together.
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:36   Link #3429
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And no matter which thread I visit, there are always perverts to some degree or other (then threads I frequqnt are usally about 10000x worse, at least... and I'm no prize myself)
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Old 2008-09-30, 22:48   Link #3430
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LOL, Orenji-kun probably got the best deal though.

Bionic enhancements
Geass Cancellation
Loli ^^
Orange farm
Peaceful life in the fields

Such is the reward of loyalty ^^ All those who laughed at him must have swallowed their tongues now :P
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:00   Link #3431
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Originally Posted by coldwarm View Post
I do not understand the intention of this post. How has religion get into code geass?
it was symbolism. Reread my earlier post or have someone else explain it to you.
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:07   Link #3432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
LOL, Orenji-kun probably got the best deal though.

Bionic enhancements
Geass Cancellation
Loli ^^
Orange farm
Peaceful life in the fields

Such is the reward of loyalty ^^ All those who laughed at him must have swallowed their tongues now :P
Not at all. If Lelouch is dead, C.C. is up for grabs. If he's alive, they're together and they can flock each other for eternity. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Furthermore, jailbait is never worth it.
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:10   Link #3433
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So still no clarification from Sunrise on whether Lelouch is dead or not?

Also- are the debates still going on in Japan over this issue?
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:10   Link #3434
bevan
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Originally Posted by Naraku View Post
I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but what is the name of the song playing as Nunally is crying / Lelouch is dying the one that keeps going until the ED kicks in...

And is it a new unreleased single?

Thanks in advance!
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Originally Posted by mrboldy View Post
does anyone know wat music they were playing near the ending?


It's 'Continued Story' by hitomi, found in Code Geass R2 OST 2
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:18   Link #3435
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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Lelouch is probably telling Light right now.

"That's how you do it right."
hwhwhw, agree with you.......probably in heaven or hell, who knows.......Lelouch is telling Light, did you see how I die ? it's awesome man...........it's not pathetic like you -.-"
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:20   Link #3436
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Not at all. If Lelouch is dead, C.C. is up for grabs. If he's alive, they're together and they can flock each other for eternity. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Furthermore, jailbait is never worth it.
C.C. up for grabs by WHO though?

True but it's not really a carefree life for Lelouch. He has to conceal his face for at least 50-100 years, and even if the memory of him somehow fades, he still can't take risks and blow the Zero Requiem plan up, so it's not really that much of a good deal. He'll never be able to live in peace, UNLIKE Orenji :P (And you know, in 50-100 years, people will actually be TAUGHT about Charles and Lelouch, so I doubt people can easily forget him).

And is Anya even jailbait? What's the age of consent in UFN and Britannia? :P And hey, they're working in the same farm, they could already be married, so even the age of consent goes out the window, I mean Anya is certainly NOT that young :PPP
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:28   Link #3437
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
Just think of Lelouch as Kane lol.

Seriously, Kane has been vaporized by an ion cannon, TWICE! lol, he's been impaled by fallen debris, he's been killed so many times yet he still comes back! That's the nature of awesome villains and heroes. No matter what happens if the franchise makes a come back you can bet your ass they'll be there lol. Characters can always be written back in specially if you leave their deaths ambiguous.
Don't even compare the two! Kane > Lelouch.

The only thing that redeemed Lulu in my eyes was his death and his ability to stand strong even against Nunnally.

But, even more with Suzaku, who is forced to live another life.
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:37   Link #3438
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Originally Posted by tzia_n View Post
arthur is the source of geass! in any case arthur is just there being a cat
How dare you insult the future 101st Emperor of Britannia.
He has survived multiple nuclear strikes and hundred of epic battles, been chased by 8th generation KMF's and helped to command both the Avalon and Ikruga!
THIS SHALL NOT STAND! Apologize to his royal meowjasty immediately.
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:40   Link #3439
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Originally Posted by hero147 View Post
Lelouch could be dead, Lelouch could be alive. (Though, I am in favor of him being alive). In my point of view, evidence suggests that he is alive. Though there are plenty of opinions and speculations to why he is alive, I am going to name the one I think is most powerful. If he was indeed dead, why would CC say that "Geass making you isolated is "inaccurate?"" when she herself ended up alone because of Geass? Lelouch also somewhat ended up alone as well.
So, I've just indulged in a second watching of the final episode. Here's something interesting:

Quote:
Originally Posted by convo
Lelouch: Hey, Suzaku. Don't wishes resemble Geass? ...Asking someone for something you can't achieve by yourself.
Suzaku: A wish, huh?
Lelouch: Yes. I'm under the affect of a Geass called the people's wish. For the sake of the future.
Go watch that scene again, and tell me you can still say that Geass makes people lonely. For the sake of a new tomorrow, Lelouch took on this Geass of his own will. And in return, all the people who had known him, helped him, and touched his heart, bore his wish for him into the future.

Quote:
Though I do have doubts about how Lelouch got the code, I simply cannot see him as deceased, even if he had those shadows in his eyes. One thing to mention about those shadows under the eyes is that Everytime a character had them, it was because their bodies were probably close to dying. I said body...And remember immortals have almost the same body has mortals, they still bleed, so losing that amount of blood, Lelouch could also gain these "shadows". I think the only reason we never saw the immortals with shadows under their eyes was because all of the immortal deaths were quick and relatively painless.
Anyway, regarding the eyebags again. You're right actually: there's actually one example of an immortal having dark eyebags resulting from bloodloss, and that's V.V. before his Code was taken, in the latter half of Turn 14. Here we've got another contradiction, however: in the case of heavy bloodloss resulting in a slow death, V.V., despite being wounded enough to die (as evidenced by the fact that he did die once his Code was taken), nevertheless never lost consciousness or closed his eyes. Lelouch did. I can walk you through the logic if you like, but to put it simply, if an immortal is heavily injured, but it is not enough to make them lose consciousness initially--then, it is impossible for them to lose consciousness as a result of that injury.

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Originally Posted by npal View Post
Now, since most things have been said, I'll just add a few comments.

First of all, you seem to have a spectacular eyesight most people wouldn't dream of, cause for the life of me and having 20/20, I can't really imagine the old man with the whiskers in that vague screenshot. And I believe that goes for many other people around here, or you're saying everyone who believes that Lelouch is that farmer is 1)blind or 2) retarded enough to mistake an OBVIOUSLY OLD man with WHISKERS for an ambiguous driver whose details were left out... Permit me not to stand in awe at that assumption.
No, I don't have spectacular eyesight. I don't treat my eyes well, so I could probably use some glasses, actually. What I do have, however, is the ability to watch a video, take a screenshot, and then zoom in. And for anybody who's bothered to do that as well, they have seen the very same thing. Seriously, someone even posted another screenshot in the romance thread. I've also shown evidence twice, and anybody can also go check for themselves. Although, from the sound of it, it seems that you may not have gotten the HD version, but nonetheless, it is fact that the wagon driver's lower face is covered with white whiskers.

Quote:
Furthermore, the "unsophisticated" crowd... Now... who's that? The one's shouting "Lelouch is done, done, done/DEAD, corpse, finito" or the one's screaming "Lelouch is alive, alive you hear?!" You're donning the wrong mantle here. The way I see it, both sides have arguments. Some arguments like the Charles Code issue, even I can't agree upon, I consider it to be unfounded and even denied based on the facts at hand.
Heh, I was just bouncing off wingdarkness's use of the term. Nonetheless, there is one common thread I've noticed coming from all the "Lelouch is ALIVE!"-ers: none of them can offer a thematic explanation for why he should live which is meaningful to either the story or his character. What I'm saying is that nobody seems to want Lelouch to be alive for any reason aside from finding it 'emo' or to ship him with C.C..

Quote:
If the ending was as firm as you think, the basic fact that so many people think otherwise (besides the ones who scream from both sides "If Lelouch is really alive/dead, this series is crap") should be at least a tiny bit troubling. Also, seeing as the core facts on which the discussion of whether Lelouch is alive or dead are ambiguous enough to cause different interpretations, what's the point of even discussing about it? Oh, yeah, I forgot, the other side is pretty stupid, right? We've all seen how firm this ending is, having caused this huge debate in the first place. Oh... right... The other side is just unsophisticated fanboys/girls... I guess that's why they didn't see the whiskers either.
Indeed, it is troubling! Actually, with so much bullshit "Lelouch is alive" speculation being quoted from 4chan, my respect for /a/ has dropped dramatically. Nonetheless, the fact that so many of the people pushing or supporting this 'ambiguity' are the aforementioned shippers above allows me to go with my initial gut instinct conviction which has only grown stronger as discussion has progressed.

Anyway, mind stating which 'ambiguous' core facts those are? It is actually explicitly shown both that Codes activate immediately after receipt, not after death, and that the loss of Code results in lost memory, so that it is systematically impossible for Lelouch to have recieved one (at least from any previously known character).

Quote:
Having accepted that Code Geass DID have unclear or ambiguous parts, just what is it that forbids you to accept that the greatest debate of the series is based on ambiguous parts as well? Could it be a purely irrational preference that you have deemed is only a characteristic of that horrible other side? You know, the unsophisticated one?
Actually, I've never really complained about Code Geass being ambiguous. All I've ever complained about was it being poorly written. Or sorry, were you trying to say that your above paragraphs proved Code Geass was ambiguous?

Quote:
The real point is that basing whatever arguments on ambiguity has little value or meaning anyway. So, what's left is up to the person, his interpretation and his belief. That multiple people in their need to prove their point create arguments that really aren't there (Charles), from otherwise solid facts, doesn't disprove the point that there's a core problem : some elements are for MANY people ambiguous enough to allow them to choose a different interpretation, until of course proven otherwise.
Oh! You're talking about those ambiguities...Sorry, they've so long been settled in my mind that I'd completely forgotten people were saying that. I presume you're talking about Nunally's supposed 'visions' and C.C.'s impossibly minor (seriously, I just watched the episode again just now, and it was even smaller than I'd remembered--jesus, talking with you people has gotten to me...it's the power of suggestion) tilt of the head? Sure, I guess it could be possible for someone who was emotionally invested in Lelouch's survival to find those ambiguous on a first or shallow viewing, but no. Actually following dialogue and character development, along with paying attention to visual conventions within the show, immediately reveal the non-conspiracy theory interpretations to be superior.

Quote:
Would I have preferred an obvious and solid ending? I actually hate ambiguity, I'd rather have something solid, no matter how terrible it is. Ambiguity usually only helps the company in question further milking the merchandise if necessary. Did I get one? Not really. I got one that probably points to Lelouch really sacrificing himself to create a better place. But I have enough room to be able to believe otherwise, that in fact Lelouch does destroy and creates worlds, but does so as he always had, staging the right play for the people. Even if Lelouch did or did not know he had an ace up his sleeve after his execution, it's still his usual tactics, he sets the stage, pays the price (Lelouch always knew that prices had to be paid, but it's possibly the first time I can recall that it's the King and not a pawn who pays that price) and pulls the stunt, in this case disappearing from the world, possibly forever, and handing the same punishment to Suzaku, who must also disappear from the world and assume the identity of Zero until his death. So, how's that so terrible or so OOC that it just couldn't happen no matter what?

Everything from Karen to C.C's reaction easily fits both accounts. Karen believes Lelouch to be dead ANYWAY. For the world, Lelouch is dead ANYWAY. The ONLY reaction that can be intepreted differently is C.C.'s, since in reality, only she and Suzaku would know the whole truth in both scenarios.

In the end, based on ambiguous elements, people are free to choose what suits them most. Obviously, it's easy enough to counter something like "Charles Code" theory, but other than that, it's pretty open to interpretation. So, next time, instead of ending calling and/or implying that the other side is blind/retarded/unsophisticated/people who sprout "bullshit", you know... those terrible people, it'd be best to just relax and think it over. The universe will not die a horrible death if people as intelligent as you are allowed to believe in something different than what you believe. And yes, I'll say it again, since the core problem is ambiguity and lack of knowledge one way or another on various issues regarding Geass mechanics, it really is just a matter of belief.

And with this, I end my statements regarding Lelouch's death. And to those who remember me from the long and forgotten past (/looks around... Don't see many of you...but whatever...), I have returned ^^.
Yeah, everything's a matter of belief. Some beliefs, though, a more strongly held; and some beliefs, though, are more substantiated. You've offered up your belief that it's all ambiguous with nothing but some ad populum to back it up. Given that you were actually totally wrong on the first point (because indeed, that's not Lelouch) and you've offered no evidence as to why anything else is actually ambiguous, I don't even need to address the rest of your arguments. Though just to be nice: Yes, actually, Lelouch being alive would be terrible: I've explained this before. Lelouch had always been a bit of a douchebag, but his death means he realized it and stopped. This interpretation is supported by the fact that Lelouch did actually realize he'd been a douchebag (or, well, 'come to know himself', whatever) in 22. Lelouch just pretending to do that and lying, however, would launch his existing douchebaggery into the sky. That is a terrible, terrible way to end a series. (Seriously though: "Those who shoot must be those who are prepared to get shot." He's not talking about hunting, kids. You seriously going to say that Lelouch spouted off some macho bullshit like that and then pranced away immortal ever after? That you want that? That you'd respect that?)
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Last edited by Sol Falling; 2008-09-30 at 23:55.
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Old 2008-09-30, 23:42   Link #3440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
C.C. up for grabs by WHO though?

True but it's not really a carefree life for Lelouch. He has to conceal his face for at least 50-100 years, and even if the memory of him somehow fades, he still can't take risks and blow the Zero Requiem plan up, so it's not really that much of a good deal. He'll never be able to live in peace, UNLIKE Orenji :P (And you know, in 50-100 years, people will actually be TAUGHT about Charles and Lelouch, so I doubt people can easily forget him).

And is Anya even jailbait? What's the age of consent in UFN and Britannia? :P And hey, they're working in the same farm, they could already be married, so even the age of consent goes out the window, I mean Anya is certainly NOT that young :PPP
Anything that makes me think Chris Hansen is coming up from behind is jailbait in my eyes.
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