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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 789 63.68%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 163 13.16%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 95 7.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 67 5.41%
6 out of 10 : Average 17 1.37%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 18 1.45%
4 out of 10 : Poor 7 0.56%
3 out of 10 : Bad 7 0.56%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 4 0.32%
1 out of 10 : Painful 72 5.81%
Voters: 1239. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-04-15, 13:03   Link #5441
azul120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
And yet he was the one that did that. Peculiar huh? 8D
Because of an accident, I might add.

Besides, there's nothing to prove that Suzaku felt that Lelouch deserved to suffer for this.
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:12   Link #5442
Nogitsune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Because of an accident, I might add.
I think sky meant that Suzaku was the one who killed Lelouch. xD

Quote:
Besides, there's nothing to prove that Suzaku felt that Lelouch deserved to suffer for this.
I agree with that from the bottom of my heart.
I can remember people going: "Omg, Suzaku so hated him 'til the end!" and "A friend wouldn't have done that!"
But they were only applying their own standards to two boys that had been constantly screwed over by life since their earliest childhood, without having anyone to rely on.
The bond they have is complicated, and in the end, Suzaku wasn't any more responsible for Lelouch's death than C.C.
All three of them had long ceased to see things in black and white. In a way, they all were equals, and both her and Suzaku respected Lelouch's wishes. He could have backed down any time and they wouldn't have thought any less of him, but he chose not to.
By the end of the series, Suzaku understood Lelouch better than anyone. Can you really want to make a person like him suffer for their mistakes if you know them and their reasons so well? I don't think so.
To me, the words "honestly wanting to punish" and "understanding perfectly well" are a complete contradiction - at least when it comes to those two.
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:27   Link #5443
azul120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
I think sky meant that Suzaku was the one who killed Lelouch. xD



I agree with that from the bottom of my heart.
I can remember people going: "Omg, Suzaku so hated him 'til the end!" and "A friend wouldn't have done that!"
But they were only applying their own standards to two boys that had been constantly screwed over by life since their earliest childhood, without having anyone to rely on.
The bond they have is complicated, and in the end, Suzaku wasn't any more responsible for Lelouch's death than C.C.
All three of them had long ceased to see things in black and white. In a way, they all were equals, and both her and Suzaku respected Lelouch's wishes. He could have backed down any time and they wouldn't have thought any less of him, but he chose not to.
By the end of the series, Suzaku understood Lelouch better than anyone. Can you really want to make a person like him suffer for their mistakes if you know them and their reasons so well? I don't think so.
To me, the words "honestly wanting to punish" and "understanding perfectly well" are a complete contradiction - at least when it comes to those two.
Exactly. Suzaku asked if there was any other way, and Lelouch refused, even though there might have been other methods.

I think people misread or misunderstood it as them wanting to punish each other, rather wanting to punish themselves. They only delivered the punishments to each other because they held an understanding of each other's wishes that no one else could. Therefore, no one but Lelouch could consign Suzaku's final fate of identity death and living under the mask of Zero, and no one other than Suzaku could deliver the consummating deathblow to Lelouch.
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:29   Link #5444
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Exactly. Suzaku asked if there was any other way, and Lelouch refused, even though there might have been other methods.

I think people misread or misunderstood it as them wanting to punish each other, rather wanting to punish themselves. They only delivered the punishments to each other because they held an understanding of each other's wishes that no one else could. Therefore, no one but Lelouch could consign Suzaku's final fate of identity death and living under the mask of Zero, and no one other than Suzaku could deliver the consummating deathblow to Lelouch.
*-*
I sign that.... and totally offer you a hug. xD
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Old 2009-04-15, 13:43   Link #5445
azul120
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
*-*
I sign that.... and totally offer you a hug. xD
Appreciated. Though I'm a dude, so that may or may not affect things.
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Old 2009-04-15, 14:23   Link #5446
Nogitsune
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Appreciated. Though I'm a dude, so that may or may not affect things.
Well, as long as you don't happen to be named Clovis, you don't have to worry - I hug people, not their gender. xD
If, however, your name is indeed Clovis, I pity you. I really do.
Because you will never get rid of me again. xD
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Old 2009-04-15, 16:54   Link #5447
azul120
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* looks at tagline, notices Nogi's gender *

Ohhhhhhh. I was just saying in case you were also a dude. "Bro hugs" can be a little odd sometimes.

And no, my name isn't Clovis, lol.

I think both Lelouch and Suzaku needed hugs at that point for what they came to realize they had done to each other and to others around them, and what they were about to do to each other as part of Zero Requiem. I think Suzaku's line from World's End: "If there were no lies between us from the first moment up to the last, our days at school would have been the happiest" alone spoke voiumes.
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:04   Link #5448
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
* looks at tagline, notices Nogi's gender *

Ohhhhhhh. I was just saying in case you were also a dude. "Bro hugs" can be a little odd sometimes.
Aw. But I'd glomp you even if I was male! xD

Quote:
And no, my name isn't Clovis, lol.
Your luck. xDD

Quote:
I think both Lelouch and Suzaku needed hugs at that point for what they came to realize they had done to each other and to others around them, and what they were about to do to each other as part of Zero Requiem. I think Suzaku's line from World's End: "If there were no lies between us from the first moment up to the last, our days at school would have been the happiest" alone spoke voiumes.
Again, I totally sign that. In fact, there probably wasn't a single episode I didn't want to hug them.
It's all so sad. q.q
But awesome, too, because their bond is just so strong and complex and meaningful and... well, awesome. *sighs wistfully*
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:06   Link #5449
Kid Ying
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
I agree with that from the bottom of my heart.
I can remember people going: "Omg, Suzaku so hated him 'til the end!" and "A friend wouldn't have done that!"
But they were only applying their own standards to two boys that had been constantly screwed over by life since their earliest childhood, without having anyone to rely on.
The bond they have is complicated, and in the end, Suzaku wasn't any more responsible for Lelouch's death than C.C.
All three of them had long ceased to see things in black and white. In a way, they all were equals, and both her and Suzaku respected Lelouch's wishes. He could have backed down any time and they wouldn't have thought any less of him, but he chose not to.
By the end of the series, Suzaku understood Lelouch better than anyone. Can you really want to make a person like him suffer for their mistakes if you know them and their reasons so well? I don't think so.
To me, the words "honestly wanting to punish" and "understanding perfectly well" are a complete contradiction - at least when it comes to those two.
I cried. The best definition for their friendship at the end of the series that i've read so far.

Suzaku was crying more than Nunnally at the end, i can't understand how anyone could want a better proof of their friendship than this. Lelouch was his friend, his brother, his man in the bed, everything. That's a true BOND.
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:09   Link #5450
yvj
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Lelouch will always be awesome IMO. But ZR.....

One must wonder if Lelouch put too much faith in this plan.
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:14   Link #5451
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by Kid Ying View Post
I cried. The best definition for their friendship at the end of the series that i've read so far.
Aw. Now I want to hug you, too. xD

Quote:
Suzaku was crying more than Nunnally at the end, i can't understand how anyone could want a better proof of their friendship than this. Lelouch was his friend, his brother, his man in the bed, everything. That's a true BOND.
Yes, they were definitely awesome.
...And did I mention that it's all so sad?
*sighs*
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:46   Link #5452
snowdevil_crow
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I once read a really, really good take on Suzaku's mindset during Zero Requiem... I can't remember where it is, now, but one of the main points through it was that they weren't friends anymore.

I think it's true --- they were never able to go back to the Lelouch+Suzaku of the old days, with the teasing and the fun (and the gay subtext *cough* owait, they still had plenty of that...). By the end neither of them liked themselves or each other very much, I think. They worked together because they wanted to fix things and change the world. I honestly believe that the only reason Suzaku agreed to join him was because Lelouch promised to let him kill him. They had both gone way too far by that point to ever really forgive each other.

That's why they followed through on Zero Requiem --- they still needed to exact retribution from one another. But at the same time, they didn't hate one another --- they understood one another, and both knew that they needed to atone. So they went through with it.

I think Suzaku was crying because of everything they lost --- their friends, their happiness, their families, and their friendship --- not because he was killing Lelouch. That was just the clincher to the deal. :/

Um... I'm a sap, sorry. Forgive me. Those two make me teary-eyed. ;_;
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:54   Link #5453
azul120
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It was officially stated though that they were officially best friends again following the World of C incident where Lelouch killed his parents.
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Old 2009-04-15, 17:59   Link #5454
Nogitsune
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It was officially stated though that they were officially best friends again following the World of C incident where Lelouch killed his parents.
And they were teasing each other again like they did in their childhood in that one side material thingy. *-*
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Old 2009-04-15, 18:05   Link #5455
snowdevil_crow
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
It was officially stated though that they were officially best friends again following the World of C incident where Lelouch killed his parents.
What.

What.

Complete Best screws me over yet again! *cries*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
And they were teasing each other again like they did in their childhood in that one side material thingy. *-*
What --- when? I didn't see this! Which side material!
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Old 2009-04-15, 18:10   Link #5456
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow View Post
What.

What.

Complete Best screws me over yet again! *cries*
Aw. xD

Quote:
What --- when? I didn't see this! Which side material!
Hm... ah, there. *-*
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3024
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Old 2009-04-15, 18:13   Link #5457
snowdevil_crow
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*melts into SuzaLulu-fangirl mode*

Thank you. *_*
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Old 2009-04-15, 18:15   Link #5458
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow View Post
*melts into SuzaLulu-fangirl mode*

Thank you. *_*
Always eager to assist, even though we should really thank the awesome person who translated it. xD
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Old 2009-04-15, 18:19   Link #5459
Kid Ying
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Wow, i didn't knew about that side material. Thanks Nogi. Gonna dig in now.
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Old 2009-04-15, 21:09   Link #5460
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What's more official? Mutuality or Complete Best?
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