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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 788 63.75%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 163 13.19%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 94 7.61%
7 out of 10 : Good 67 5.42%
6 out of 10 : Average 17 1.38%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 18 1.46%
4 out of 10 : Poor 7 0.57%
3 out of 10 : Bad 6 0.49%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 4 0.32%
1 out of 10 : Painful 72 5.83%
Voters: 1236. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-01-01, 03:05   Link #5681
Eirian
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I guess the flaws in my previous post are the reasons why I'm going to rewatch the series.
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Old 2011-01-01, 12:24   Link #5682
Xander
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Don't worry, there are many different ways to interpret almost everything in Code Geass. Coming to an universal agreement isn't necessary.

I don't think one point of view is automatically more "flawed" than the other as long as they are both based on the original source material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Actually Suzaku didn't want to kill Lelouch. He sensed he had been lying about doing what he did to Euphie on purpose.
I don't think this is something we can present as some sort of static state of mind though, particularly because the show itself clearly didn't.

There was actually a lot of internal tension within Suzaku. He had different attitudes and impulses at various points in the story, all the way from the Suzaku who justified killing his father to the Suzaku who thought he needed to make up for it by choosing the right path and the Suzaku who thought Lelouch should not exist in this world after the murder of Euphemia.

And that's without even going into what happened in R2. Suzaku doesn't just betray people, you could argue he also contradicts himself because of those personality changes and his various impulses. This is something that, I feel, must be taken into account instead of simply stating Suzaku didn't want to kill Lelouch.

Suzaku didn't want to kill Lelouch around the time of, say, Turn 17 because he did feel his friend was lying then and there. This is true.

However, taking into consideration what happened afterwards and Suzaku's own change in attitude after Turn 18...it cannot be said this was his stance by time they joined forces in Turn 21. In fact, that a part of Suzaku still held a grudge against Lelouch for the crime of killing Euphemia was made clear by the brief exchange they had after stopping the Ragnarok Connection. The issue was still on his mind.

After they came to an (off-screen) understanding, the situation turned out to be rather ironic: Suzaku and Lelouch became friends again, but he still agreed with the need to carry out the Zero Requiem...which is a plan that includes Lelouch's death as its central element. This is also why I consider it to be the result of a negative reconciliation between two broken individuals as opposed to a truly constructive outcome, at least from a certain perspective.

Therefore, concluding that in a way Zero Requiem did bring a sense of finality to Suzaku's own internal dilemma, including his conflicting feelings about killing Lelouch or not, is an entirely warranted interpretation. It's certainly not the only possible one, however, but that depends on how we choose to look at all of this.
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Old 2011-01-01, 17:16   Link #5683
azul120
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When it came to the Zero Requiem, Suzaku already objected to it on a fundamental level, and asked if there other ways, and Lelouch confirmed as much.
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Old 2011-01-01, 18:13   Link #5684
Xander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
When it came to the Zero Requiem, Suzaku already objected to it on a fundamental level, and asked if there other ways, and Lelouch confirmed as much.
I assume you're referring to the exchange from the Mutuality short story, not anything from the anime, but my point is a comprehensive context surrounds the issue that we should be taking account, instead of only debating isolated phrases in and of themselves. Nothing more, nothing less.

In the short story...Suzaku asks Lelouch if there isn't any other way and the reply is no, there is none. Lelouch admits that there were other options, as part of his own internal monologue, but he's not telling this to Suzaku. Such an inquiry doesn't mean Suzaku "objected" on a fundamental level, I believe, but simply that he had doubts. And yet, the short story also shows Suzaku accepting this and respecting Lelouch's resolve...which is reflected by what Suzaku actually says and does in the animation, including Turns 23 and 25.

I would say such doubts are part of the tensions and internal conflicts of both characters, in light of what has been previously described. However, in the end they all agreed to the plan in spite of any other concerns and didn't really look back after the decision had been made.
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Old 2011-01-02, 06:43   Link #5685
azul120
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Still though, Suzaku had doubts about it. Besides, he had already known Lelouch was lying about killing Euphie on purpose. (Not to mention his own major loss of credibility after the whole FLEIJA clusterfuck.)
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Old 2011-01-06, 07:12   Link #5686
Mio44
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i found a site the following code geass r2 the end and there is a picture Look
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Old 2011-01-06, 07:13   Link #5687
Mio44
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http://www.zerochan.net/390673
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Old 2011-01-08, 10:26   Link #5688
rinichan
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last question to everyone....

where can I get Code Geass 1 & 2 TV ratings from Japan. Just need to confirm something. (coz my friend said that r2 has low ratings???)

Thanks in advance...
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Old 2011-01-09, 17:26   Link #5689
KazePT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
When it came to the Zero Requiem, Suzaku already objected to it on a fundamental level, and asked if there other ways, and Lelouch confirmed as much.
When they found out that Nunnally was safe and sound, Suzaku kept pushing Lelouch, remembering him that they had to carry out their plan.
I think he was not doing that just for the sake of humanity.
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Old 2011-01-09, 18:50   Link #5690
azul120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KazePT View Post
When they found out that Nunnally was safe and sound, Suzaku kept pushing Lelouch, remembering him that they had to carry out their plan.
I think he was not doing that just for the sake of humanity.
It was because they were too far into the plan to go back. If they went back on it, it would backfire.

Suzaku wouldn't have any right to do it just out of spite anymore. Not after everything else that had happened, especially FLEIJA.
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Old 2011-01-09, 19:04   Link #5691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
It was because they were too far into the plan to go back. If they went back on it, it would backfire.

Suzaku wouldn't have any right to do it just out of spite anymore. Not after everything else that had happened, especially FLEIJA.
He knew what Lelouch felt when he thought that Nunnally had died.
(And Lelouch was in "bad" terms with his dearest sister)

About FLEIJA, Suzaku could feel bad about it, but it was the Geass that Lelouch casted on him that "made him" do it.

If they wanted, they could think of something or at least try to come with a solution where Lelouch didn't really die.
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Old 2011-01-09, 19:16   Link #5692
azul120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KazePT View Post
He knew what Lelouch felt when he thought that Nunnally had died.
(And Lelouch was in "bad" terms with his dearest sister)
When are you referring to? The "liar" part, from R2 15? She was upset Suzaku was holding off on the truth about where Lelouch was. If it's R2 22, Schneizel screwed with her, and of course, Lelouch had also entered his Demon Emperor act, so there was no way out.

Quote:
About FLEIJA, Suzaku could feel bad about it, but it was the Geass that Lelouch casted on him that "made him" do it.
Suzaku was being told to retreat when Kallen was tearing him a new one, but he chose to stay and let her kill him, which is what activated the "Live" command.

Quote:
If they wanted, they could think of something or at least try to come with a solution where Lelouch didn't really die.
There were other possibilities according to one of the side stories, but Lelouch saw there was no other way for him, since he felt he had no more reason to live. And of course, at the end of season 1, the writers decided the second season would end in Lelouch's death. Which I guess is why the path there is a complete asspull.
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Old 2011-01-21, 15:58   Link #5693
wagenman
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I have 2 questions. One, This means Lelouch never finished his contract with C-2 right? But that isn't a bad thing because at the end it seemed as if she was actually beginning to enjoy the "life" she had so i guess she did not need the contract any more? Second, What happened to V-2? I remember him being injured but he did not heal? He healed when the knife got thrown through his head? If so, who killed him and how?
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Old 2011-01-23, 20:03   Link #5694
Revolutionist
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Lelouch always had a way out. Get Schneizel to confess into a tape about his goal to nuke everything, and broadcast it to the entire world. Then execute him and the Black Knight leadership for siding with him, but not before setting up a "fair" trial for them. Recordings and documents would be forged implicating Oughi, Todou, Chiba, Xingke, Villetta etc in atrocities. It wouldn't be hard to do, all he needs to do is geass them into reading a scrip he prepares for them, and later in the trial, even if they deny it, their voices and signatures are on the tapes and orders in which massacres are ordered. Would people believe that they were coerced into doing this by a supernatural power, or that they are pathetic war criminals trying to avoid the firing squad?

He remains the Emperor for justice, who defeated Schneizel and the BLack Knights and brought them to justice, abolished the number system, reduced the monarchy's power and then ceded the throne to his sister Cornelia, who is the rightful heir.

Schneizel and the BKs are put against a wall and shot dead, their bodies thrown in a common unmarked mass grave in the woods.

humanity wins.
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Old 2011-01-23, 20:39   Link #5695
azul120
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Lol.

He was still too far into his plan to pull out, having practically declared war at that one meeting.

And Xing-ke was always more a part of the UFN, along with Kaguya and the Tianzi, and wasn't in on the betrayal. (He'd be too smart for Schneizel anyways.)

And Cornelia as empress? No. She's not the type, and isn't fit to be anyways with what she did and how.
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Old 2011-01-23, 21:07   Link #5696
Revolutionist
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That meeting wasn't broadcasted to the world, besides anything he said there would not be as damaging as Schneizel explaining his plans for the world...
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Old 2011-01-23, 21:37   Link #5697
wagenman
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please

can some one answer my 2 questions above please?
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Old 2011-01-23, 22:49   Link #5698
azul120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
That meeting wasn't broadcasted to the world, besides anything he said there would not be as damaging as Schneizel explaining his plans for the world...
Perhaps, but he and Suzaku had practically still declared war on the UFN.

@wagenman: C. C.'s contract remained unfulfilled. V. V. died, since Charles took his code.
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Old 2011-01-24, 00:38   Link #5699
wagenman
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awesome thank you very much! But why did he give him his code?
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Old 2011-01-24, 01:41   Link #5700
azul120
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He didn't. Charles took it.
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