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Old 2008-12-17, 02:15   Link #721
Anh_Minh
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If you go and stab the thingy's head, are you guilty of murder or assault?
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Old 2008-12-17, 02:32   Link #722
forumer147
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Its really wrong but everyone is entitled to its own opinion and also there are abortions which are needed especially if the life of the mother is at stake.
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Old 2008-12-17, 14:06   Link #723
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Its more useful if you discuss *why* you think its "wrong", provide some substantive reasoning.

As for opinions, everyone is entitled to their own opinion -- but the listeners are permitted to think its worthless if its not based on any knowledge, study, or research People with opinions should be able to provide some support for their conclusions.
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Old 2008-12-17, 17:19   Link #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
If you go and stab the thingy's head, are you guilty of murder or assault?
Like this ?
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Old 2008-12-17, 17:48   Link #725
Anh_Minh
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No... outside the womb, but while the cord's still attached.
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Old 2009-03-30, 21:04   Link #726
ria1414
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I'm pro-choice. It seems to me the people that are screaming "murder" aren't the ones that will be standing in line to take care of the children that they so desperately want to see born. Carelessness happens. Rape happens. Too many unwanted children in the world as it is. Abortion is fine in my eyes.
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Old 2009-03-30, 21:12   Link #727
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Whoa, necro. X_X

I really hope this doesn't start up again....
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Old 2009-03-30, 21:24   Link #728
LeoXiao
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If you like/support abortion it just means that you're supporting those who are careless. I can sort of understand rape, but people being careless is just stupid.
People now (maybe they always were like this but i dont care) don't see childbirth as the wonderful thing it is anymore. Nobody seems to care about the amazing process of life being created; all they care about is having less people on the planet so there's more room for them to make dumb mistakes.

I know this thread has been going on too long but seriously it's kinda sickening to constantly hear people rave about how lives (well the process) ought to be destroyed so that irresponsible people can feel comfortable.
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Last edited by White Manju Bun; 2009-03-30 at 21:53.
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Old 2009-03-30, 21:35   Link #729
james0246
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Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
I know this thread has been going on too long but seriously it's kinda sickening to constantly hear people rave about how lives (well the process) ought to be destroyed so that irresponsible people can feel comfortable.
As far as I am concerned, this thread is over, but I couldn't help but make one (silly) comment: I love the juxtaposition between your firm stance and support of life and the fact that both your signature image and avatar are of extreme killing machines. It's deliciously ironic .
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Old 2009-03-30, 22:03   Link #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
As far as I am concerned, this thread is over, but I couldn't help but make one (silly) comment: I love the juxtaposition between your firm stance and support of life and the fact that both your signature image and avatar are of extreme killing machines. It's deliciously ironic .
Extreme killing machines are awesome. I actually wonder sometimes if I should change the pictures since they contradict so much of what I say, but the awesomeness/badassery field is too powerful.
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Old 2009-03-30, 22:54   Link #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
I know this thread has been going on too long but seriously it's kinda sickening to constantly hear people rave about how lives (well the process) ought to be destroyed so that irresponsible people can feel comfortable.
Agreed. Honestly I really feel bad for the poor things, knowing that they were stripped off their chance to live because of the mistakes their parents made. Gosh it is annoying how some people don't have self control and are too afraid of facing the consequences of their actions which they so rightfully deserve.

An exception to what I just said are those rape victims.
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Old 2009-03-30, 23:09   Link #732
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Though some may find Abortion wrong, I don't feel it is.

Though I can understand all of your points and reason on its banning, I think it's irresponsible to have a child if you're clearly not ready for it. If there's teen pregnancy, do you expect the mother and the father to give up their futures because of a mistake (Though a really stupid one) so to give a baby a chance to live in poverty, hardship and increased chances of heath problems? Isn't that oddly unfair?

Why does the fetus have a name while the billions of male sperm does not? The woman disposes of eggs every month. Why don't they have names too? Is conception something that magical? If so, wouldn't the conceptions that fail before development count too?

Though I caa agree that usually the people who want abortions are irresponsible, but I find that the people forcing people not to because of one reason or another, are more irresponsible, especially since they will voice their great support and once the baby is born they couldn't care less.

Well hopefully this post doesn't get me banned, more wood into the necro fire.
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Old 2009-03-30, 23:23   Link #733
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
If you like/support abortion it just means that you're supporting those who are careless. I can sort of understand rape, but people being careless is just stupid.
People now (maybe they always were like this but i dont care) don't see childbirth as the wonderful thing it is anymore. Nobody seems to care about the amazing process of life being created; all they care about is having less people on the planet so there's more room for them to make dumb mistakes.

I know this thread has been going on too long but seriously it's kinda sickening to constantly hear people rave about how lives (well the process) ought to be destroyed so that irresponsible people can feel comfortable.
Bulverism. Attempting to wilfully misrepresent the reasons why people take a pro-choice stand, without giving any concrete argument on why the stand is wrong in the first place, constitutes a form of argumentum ad hominem circumstantial.

Just because having this thread pick up again is the last thing I want, doesn't mean I'll hold back from skewering your lack of logical processes if I see them.
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Old 2009-03-30, 23:27   Link #734
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The main reason why abortion is wrong - murder.
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Old 2009-03-30, 23:32   Link #735
Ascaloth
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Originally Posted by AmoreDoll View Post
The main reason why abortion is wrong - murder.
Proof by Assertion. Where is your reasoning behind the statement that abortion equals murder?

Gotta do a lot better than that before you even think of contradicting me, little lady. Take a look at the rest of the thread to have a better idea of what it's going to take to really join the debate.
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Old 2009-03-30, 23:35   Link #736
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Bulverism. Attempting to wilfully misrepresent the reasons why people take a pro-choice stand, without giving any concrete argument on why the stand is wrong in the first place, constitutes a form of argumentum ad hominem circumstantial.

Just because having this thread pick up again is the last thing I want, doesn't mean I'll hold back from skewering your lack of logical processes if I see them.
I've given reasons before, and even if I didn't, they have already been given by others. What I am doing now is stating unmentioned possible factors, which is by this point the closest this thread will ever get to having a meaning.

Quote:
The main reason why abortion is wrong - murder.
The whole issue of the argument is over when the life begins, not whether or not murder is okay. In my personal opinion, when the sperm and egg join successfully, then developing human life has been initiated; that's where the boundary is. However, it could be argued that any boundary is arbitrary, but we have to draw a line somewhere, right? To me it makes most sense that assembly (joining of sperm to egg) should be the starting point, not delivery.
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Old 2009-03-30, 23:36   Link #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Proof by Assertion. Where is your reasoning behind the statement that abortion equals murder?

Gotta do a lot better than that before you even think of contradicting me, little lady. Take a look at the rest of the thread to have a better idea of what it's going to take to really join the debate.
I'm not really here for a debate. Besides, I'm only a little lady. More big men and big women will speak for me.
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Old 2009-03-30, 23:38   Link #738
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Gotta do a lot better than that before you even think of contradicting me, little lady. Take a look at the rest of the thread to have a better idea of what it's going to take to really join the debate.
Always willing and waiting to point these fallacies out eh?

But people... Seriously take a look at previous pages to see arguments that did or did not work out... Poor Ascaloth keeps having to point out the fallacies in everyone's arguments.
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Old 2009-03-30, 23:43   Link #739
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
I've given reasons before, and even if I didn't, they have already been given by others. What I am doing now is stating unmentioned possible factors, which is by this point the closest this thread will ever get to having a meaning.
Yet the Bulverism still stands. It's still a matter of you making wilful misrepresentations against your opponents in the debate without addressing why the opposite position is wrong in the first place.

Quote:
The whole issue of the argument is over when the life begins, not whether or not murder is okay. In my personal opinion, when the sperm and egg join successfully, then developing human life has been initiated; that's where the boundary is. However, it could be argued that any boundary is arbitrary, but we have to draw a line somewhere, right? To me it makes most sense that assembly (joining of sperm to egg) should be the starting point, not delivery.
So your position is based on an Argument from Personal Conviction? Noted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmoreDoll View Post
I'm not really here for a debate. Besides, I'm only a little lady. More big men and big women will speak for me.
Indeed they have, and me and many others have shot them down one by one using logic. It would be a good idea for you to learn to stand on your own two feet where debate is concerned, instead of relying on others and never growing up because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Always willing and waiting to point these fallacies out eh?
What can I say....I'm a bit of a bastard that way.
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Old 2009-03-30, 23:47   Link #740
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
If you like/support abortion it just means that you're supporting those who are careless. I can sort of understand rape, but people being careless is just stupid.
People now (maybe they always were like this but i dont care) don't see childbirth as the wonderful thing it is anymore. Nobody seems to care about the amazing process of life being created; all they care about is having less people on the planet so there's more room for them to make dumb mistakes.

I know this thread has been going on too long but seriously it's kinda sickening to constantly hear people rave about how lives (well the process) ought to be destroyed so that irresponsible people can feel comfortable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmoreDoll View Post
Agreed. Honestly I really feel bad for the poor things, knowing that they were stripped off their chance to live because of the mistakes their parents made. Gosh it is annoying how some people don't have self control and are too afraid of facing the consequences of their actions which they so rightfully deserve.

An exception to what I just said are those rape victims.
According to wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth, in 2002 54% of women getting abortions in the US did report using some kind of contraceptive. Calling women who have abortions irresponsible is at the very least over generalizing. Further, how is having a child that they can't support being responsible? Though an extreme example and not 100% applicable, the recent case of the so called "Octo-mom" should show that having kids isn't always the responsable thing to to either.
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