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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 Series Rating
Perfect 10 365 44.95%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 199 24.51%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 92 11.33%
7 out of 10 : Good 76 9.36%
6 out of 10 : Average 31 3.82%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 20 2.46%
4 out of 10 : Poor 9 1.11%
3 out of 10 : Bad 4 0.49%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 0.25%
1 out of 10 : Painful 14 1.72%
Voters: 812. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-02-21, 17:11   Link #1041
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
...And showing the command structure of the Black Knights is perfectly analogous to the cast living on without Lelouch, which the ending showed. Mmhm.
The point is I don't think its believable, if Todoh and Ougi where competent leaders where was this in the series.
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Old 2009-02-21, 17:26   Link #1042
Dream_Traveller
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Well, you know, a series doesn't have to devote entire episodes to how competent or not some people are. Last I recall, Toudou, who, lest you forget, was the only person to ever score a victory against Britannia during the invasion- though official side materials say that such a win was the result of an errand by the Kyoto group and not a miracle- and who was shown to be a competent leader of both the BKs in S1 and of the Four Swords, was appointed a rather high position in the Black Knights in S2 befitting his prowess, and the BKs didn't fare all that bad. As for Ougi, okay, I'm puzzled about him, a man saved by luck and who rarely did anything except think about Villetta, becoming Prime Minister- but, who knows, he might have decent political knowledge in that brain of his.

And, you know, Code Geass isn't the anime to elaborate on military or political competence.

Last edited by Dream_Traveller; 2009-02-21 at 17:45.
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Old 2009-02-21, 17:53   Link #1043
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
Well, you know, a series doesn't have to devote entire episodes to how competent or not some people are. Last I recall, Toudou, who, lest you forget, was the only person to ever score a victory against Britannia during the invasion- though official side materials say that such a win was the result of an errand by the Kyoto group and not a miracle- and who was shown to be a competent leader of both the BKs in S1 and of the Four Swords, was appointed a rather high position in the Black Knights in S2 befitting his prowess, and the BKs didn't fare all that bad. As for Ougi, okay, I'm puzzled about him, a man saved by luck and who rarely did anything except about Villetta, becoming Prime Minister- but, who knows, he might have decent political knowledge in that brain of his.

And, you know, Code Geass isn't the anime to elaborate on military or political competence.
Here's the thing we are told that Todoh is a great military leader, we are told that Todoh is competent even as he leads his entire army to ruin. It's Yugioh all over again where we are told that Mai Valentine is a great duelist even as she loses every match she's in.

Here's the thing military and political competence should be the Code Geass' bread and butter, Code Geass is at its best when its showing people as competent and showing how they try to outsmart each other. The battle between Xingke and Lelouch was good because both sides where using their brains and not just "I HAVE BETTER MECHS THAN YOU!". If I wanted to see flashy explosions with flashy mechs I would watch Gundam Seed Destiny.
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Old 2009-02-21, 17:59   Link #1044
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Er, Toudou never 'led his army to ruin'. If you mean what he did in S1, Stage 25, it was a last stand. If you mean the Schneizel affair, well, that was Ougi's fault, yes?

Plus...the match between Xingke and Lelouch was barely a display of brainpower. The Akatsuki squadron hiding in crevasses was a standard tactic, moving into the tomb of the Empresses would obviously cause Xingke to falter, and, while I do admit the use of stagnant water to impede the BKs was good, it's hardly anything fantastic. Lelouch himself often constantly relied on the same terrain-based methods for his tactics.

But, again, we don't need whole segments devoted to how competent militaries and their leaders are, and politics was never an issue in CG, save for the China arc. That's it.

As a side-note, you've made me repeatedly wonder why the hell you watched this show in the first place...
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Old 2009-02-21, 19:16   Link #1045
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
\
As a side-note, you've made me repeatedly wonder why the hell you watched this show in the first place...
I have repeatly stated that I liked the first season.' Ashford was actually interesting, the comedy was usually good, the plots was largely unique, the characters where competent, and the mecha battles where unique. I loved the rollerblading mecha, and the use of wires.

I also loved the contrast between Lelouch's anti hero and Suzaku's anti-villain.

If you look very little of my complaints are of the first season and of the first half I only hated the Ball (bad writing), Million Zero (unbelievable and incompetent Britannia). and Episode 12(I already mentioned why I hate this. In fact its only after episode 20 of R2 did I really start hating everything with pretty much everything I liked about Code Geass gone and replaced by a slew of Wallbangers.

Last stand's are useless, its far better to retreat with most of your army, than to lose nearly all of your army in a last ditch effort to be heroic, once Lelouch and Kallen left the morale of the Black Knights plummeted and the battle was over. Todoh's inability to see that was the reason for nearly the complete destruction of the Black Knights.
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Old 2009-02-21, 19:38   Link #1046
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That's the first season. Not the second. Why the hell did you watch the second if all you did was complain about it?

Oh, and last stands are useless? Huh, well, if you could tell that to these examples here...
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Old 2009-02-21, 19:41   Link #1047
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Epic fail!

I just finished watching Code Geass season 1 and 2 over the course of three days. Yes.

Season one was amazing, no complaints whatsoever. What drew me in the most to this series was Lelouch/Zero. What an amazing character. When he gets the Geas power, instead of standing around thinking what exactly just happened to him, he looks up at the soldiers in front of him, and calmly and cooly says "Die." Beautiful. That's what won me over to the series without a doubt.

And then we have season 2. While the first half was OK (though not good compared to season1) the second half was most definitely NOT. The whole "lets brainwash Lelouch and watch him to make sure he doesn't start being Zero again, and also let's somehow brainwash an entire school to forget about Nannaly" was just ridiculous. And in order to cover up a mass brainwashing they decided to magically disappear a whole school full of students and teachers, but conveniently left behind the main 4 characters from the school committee. Why not just remove them all and let Lelouch think he was always with this new group of students (plus his fake brother).

Leaving aside all the unrealistic, illogical weirdness that began from the very first minute of season 2, the ending itself was appalling. Yes it's OK if Lelouch dies, since that is what he wants and he is more than happy to. However, I find it absurd that he (apparently) dies while all the utter morons in the rest of the cast lived.

Oughi (don't care about his last name). Now here is the definition of a dunce. He can't make up his mind whether to trust Zero or not, even after all the victroies and resources that Zero got for him and the rest of his useless band of terrorists. He then takes in an enemy combatant and makes her his partner while she has no memories, without telling anyone. He has just compromised the entire Black Knight organization but he has no problems with that at all. And later when she regains her memory, he is happy to be with her after all the crimes she has committed willingly and in cold blood against his fellow Elevens, whom he claims to represent, but at the same time he can't forgive Zero for not showing his face and for perhaps (he thinks) using Geass on him. He is unable to lead his organization, he can't make a single good military decision when Zero isn't around, and rather than appreciating everything that Zero has done for him and the others up to now he would rather join forces with his sworn enemy Schnizer. He owes his life countless times to Zero, but none of that matters as long as he can have a treacherous relationship with a ruthless murderer wife/girlfriend. Oughi would no doubt be the worst prime minister ever and dither with any and all decisions. Hmm should I build new homes here or over there. Hmmm. Hmmm. Oh Zero please answer your mobile!

Why someone with Zero's amazing strategic mind didn't put a spy on him or seem to notice his odder-and-slimier- than usual behaviour after the Shirley shooting incident I really don't get. Another plothole. I find Oughi one of the most irritating in this whole series, and I didn't like him even back in season 1. But at least then he was on Zero's side. But to revolt over nothing, and then be allowed to LIVE, and then to become prime minister is just too ugly, and too unrealistic in relation to the lore of Code Geass.

The Black Knights also are the most morally-questionnable bunch of idiots I have ever seen, and this is an anime we're talking about! They take all the weapons, resources and leadership they can from Zero but are ready to sell him out at the drop of a hat when their enemy plays some digital tape to them. What the hell is that about? That tape could easily be a fake as whats his name says, but no they have to believe him and then hand Zero over. I mean what kind of an organization is this? The man who built them from nothing, and saved all of their lives so many many times, is cast aside as soon as they have a battleship with Hadron cannons. Pathetic. I cannot blieve that not a single one of these ingrates stood up for Zero. They owe their existance to him. Who are they to judge him? They are terrorists for god's sake!

Then there's Toudou. He couldn't even lead the troops to victory in the Black Rebellion, even with vitory handed to him on a plate, but has the temerity to switch sides when he hears that Zero killed a load of monsters with supernatural powers in an underground city? Sigh. Epic Fail once again Sunrise. Related to this are his "crew" and that woman who likes him. Oh my god. If Zero was as ruthless as he is supposed to be, I'm sure he would have executed her as soon as he got back in the second season, simply because he shouldn't have to answer to someone like her. He was too kind.

Kallen. What a stupid woman. Again, the fact that she is alive to try and kill Zero is thanks to Zero. Your life being saved and your cause being given victory should mean you dont even THINK about fighting against the man that gave you all that. I don't really want to waste more words on this highly retarded individual.

Shirley. Now this was a really nice character, someone completely the opposite of Lelouch. While he was filled with vengence and calculated murder, she was full of unconditional love and compassion. And they just kill her off, not even in an explosion or in a battle or something, no no. Rather, she dies because she is shot by some weasel. And while a person so good, and a girl at that (something so rare these days in RL), dies needlessly, every other undesirable who should have died, does not: Cornelia, Schinzer, Oughi, Kallen, most of the Black Knights, Toudou, the Nobility, Anya, Gotfeld etc., Kallen, Oughi, Oughi's wife, Oughi, Oughi, Kallen. Her slaughter was completely unnecessary, not for any reason other than the fact that she was so good. If she had to die, then so should the rest of those side-switching terrorists and racial superiority complex Britannians.

Also of all the relationships that were proposed in this series, the one that resonated with me as a real love relationship was that between Shirley and Lelouch, especially after the whole incident with Light or whatever his name was (the one who could read minds). I don't think Lelouch x C.C. or Lelouch x Kallen were any more than fleeting physical desires. In any case C.C. does not seem to have any romantic interest in Lelouch whatsoever.

Nannaly has no Geass. And the humans in this time are not so evolved as to have telepathy. So how is she able to read minds by touching someone's hand? I can understand if she can see if someoneone is lying or not, but to get the whole Requiem story from a touch is silly. That said overall she didn't turn out to be a weird hypocritical traitor to Lelouch/Zero by the end so I'd say she was a good character right to the end. Then again, why is that Awful-oughi shaking her hand. What exactly does she represent? Britannia has fallen, Japan is independent so doesn't need a governor, so what exactly is this about? Looks like a cheap shot at showing some kind of political developments. FAIL.


CHARLES and MARIANNE
Oh so now the two of them are working together? I was with Lelouch 100% in this particular "sub-plot" as he explained why they were bad parents wanting only sanctuary for themselves while abandoning their own children. Although, how they managed to get the whole driving force behind Lelouch and his actions, and the emergence of Zero, to become a sub-plot I will never understand! And why is Marianne so fond of Charles, who has had so many wives. And why is Lelouch the heir to the throne when he has so many brothers and sisters older than him?

The whole point of V.V. killing Marianne and then somehow bringing the two kids to the stairs the next morning and placing Nannaly under her mother's already one day old corpse and somehow convincing her and Lelouch that she died just then in the terrorist attack is also ridiculous. Don't the most basic universal laws of probability apply here? Seems like Sunrise took a lot of liberties with the already established, plausible, background story so that they could justify some of the ridiculous fan service tech upgrades and fight scenes that they had planned/wanted to experiment with in their R2. Highly irresponsible, and ultimately weakens the whole series.

And since when does Marianne have a Geass which "she only realised she had just as she lay there dying" WTF? Did someone really get PAID to make up this drivel?


THEORIES
There are many theories around as to what happened in the end. I would love to see that Lelouch didn't die, because he really really didn't deserve to (as I have said, based on the other evil and wrong characters who were given life already). So here's my theory.

C.C. gave Lelouch her code. This means that she can finally end her "life" of not dying and Lelouch in return gets to live and watch the new world he created bring a peaceful life to his beloved Nannaly. The flashback does not NECESSARILY mean that he was dying, rather that he was remembering everything he had lived and everything he had lost (Shirley being number one of course ) as the moment arrived that he would have to go into immortal exile. C.C. may therefore have either been speaking to Lelouch through some kind of telepathy, or may have been talking to Lelouch below her (carriage driver). They were probably heading to the ORANGE farm to hang with Orange-kun and Anya .


OTHER COMMENTS
Plot twists were pretty regular, but I personally found them pretty entertaining (in the otherwise ruined Code Geass story that we got in season 2) and they didn't bother me that much. Nannaly's return from being nuked was however a bit silly. And Schneizel does what he does for what reason exactly? Just to see what will happen and to see if he can "check" his brother? Really stupid. The main boss should have been Charles as he was the one who was built up as being the Devil himself. The Knights of the Rounds were also just a poor add on to Seed-ize this story, and again is a major weakness. As someone said before, what's his name only ever did any damage to those in suits weaker than him, and in the end his major contribution was picking up Kallen's suit and retreating.

Speaking of which, there is no way on earth that the forever confused, moronic Kallen could have defeated Suzaku. He was driven and focussed, she was just a big ball of OMG-WTF-I-wanna-kill-Zero/Lelouch-cos-I-can't-decide-if-I-like-him-or-not-because-I'm-not-sure-if-he-likes-me-back-OMGOMG. And also he had the Geass Live On (Incidentally, he was using that to improve his fighting - how pathetic!). Also, whats up with the all singing all dancing ninja maid? Bit superfluous and improbable.


CONCLUSION

Code Geass had such great potential. I don't think you could create a better lead than Zero/Lelouch, with his contradictory but ultimately believable and compelling attributes of: student, egotistical megalomaniac, cold blooded murderer, devoted brother and son, calculating strategist, and charismatic leader.

But Sunrise had to go and spoil it all by doing something stupid like "R2." They have an obsession with creating stories and adding a cacophany of new characters that are weak overall (Oughi, already flawed, was ruined in season2) but so self-rigtheous as to demand from others (Zero) far more than what they demand of themselves in terms of behaviour. And then, finally, they let these flawed irrational and ultimately BAD, people live while killing off the good ones (Shirley, and Zero - who actually was made far more evil in season 2 by crazy Sunrise.).

Even in Gundam 00, a series that is infinitely better than CG season 2, you have two interesting characters, Lichty and Christina, being killed off for no good reason when it would have been possible for them not to have died (ie not being blown up. Come on, if Ali al Sarches can survive that beam, these two could easily have been made to survive). What is it with all these anime series. But it's Sunrise again here. Psychopaths!!!!

Most of the characters, I'd say 95%, have no sense of morals, or balance. In fact, who even tries to defend Lelouch? Who actually tries to help him and repay him for all that he has done, singlehandedly against the tyranny of HIS OWN family? In the end it's just Shirley, Orange, C.C. and later Suzaku, who I thought of as a slightly improved Shinn clone until he started to help Zero.

Some people here have some questionnable morals also. I read comments where someone says they are "sickened" that someone else would want Lelouch to have lived, after all the "crimes" he committed, and then they list "brainwashing Britannian soldiers to fight for him." Err last time I checked Britannia was the main enemy in this series. How is making them fight a "crime"? And anyway, why would such an opinion sicken you? So it's OK to subjugate and slaughter the people of a sovereign nation such as Japan, stripping it of its flag and even its name, but it's not OK to brainwash a few people using Geass in order to bring down the evil oppressors. That shows your morals clearly. Your reaction to simple opposing points of view sickens ME. In any case, any civilians that were killed by Zero's actions were far fewer in number than those killed by Britannia and its various governors. The Euphemia incident was accidental, and for someone like Zero the best option would be to use it to further the cause. Why sit around moping about it? Zero is pragmatic. Any normal person would stop the fight there. But Zero is not any normal person.

I'm not saying that Lelouch should have lived per se. He himself says the things he is doing in season 2 are too much for that (but as I said he was made more evil in R2). But as someone else said, if dubious and evil characters such as the rest of Black Knights can live, not to mention Schneizel, who as some seem to have forgotten nuked 50 million of his own Britannians just to make a petty point against his brother, and Cornelia who delights in killing any "Number" that she can find, then Lelouch should also be allowed to live. Although I don't need to explicitly say it, I shall: we are dealing with a whole cast of characters who have committed crimes. What riles, disgusts, apalls me the most is that the least evil of all, the one who had the best motivation and the purest intentions for his actions (Zero) as well as the nicest, most compassionate character (Shirley) both die. That is not justice. That is not fair, even by Anime standards.

The ambiguous ending shows very clearly that this was not well planned. I don't care what the director and/or staff have said in interviews. What we are judging is their final creation, and it was an epic fail. If they wanted Lelouch to be dead, they didn't need to have C.C. talking to him at the end. She could have been just talking to herself. No doubt they were creating space to be able to do a season 3 with Lelouch back again. All in all, this series was extremely entertaining and really fun to watch but only up to season 1 episode 25. After that it was a rushed, illogical, irrational piece of junk. There were a few funny/lulz moments in season 2 but these were almost always centered around Zero/Lelouch's "AHAHAHAA!!! yes you were all my pawns" and "Grant me, Zero, exile...[smoke puff]...Now we are all Zero!! HAHAHAHAA!!!" type comments, proclamations and speeches.

It should have ended at season 1. THAT would have been a GOOD viewer-to-decide ending, not like the pile of rubbish we were given. The mere fact that they had to come out and justify themselves and their actions in later magazine interviews shows just how useless season 2 and its ending was, even to the eyes of the creators. If the ending and future of the series had been decided, it would have clearly been shown that Lelouch died. Since we didn't have this: ALL HAIL LELOUCH!!! LONG LIVE LELOUCH!!!! Shirley lives on!!!

Score overall: 5/10.
Season 1: 9/10.
Season 2: 4/10. (includes +1 bonus point cos Zero/Lelouch is DA MAN) Wayda EPIC FAIL!, Sunrise.

P.S. Theres probably more but I'm too disgusted with the ruin Sunrise have infested this amazing story with to continue, for now. Just like my animated namesake, I shall return again! MUAHAHAA!

Last edited by LelouchZeroFTW; 2009-02-21 at 20:13.
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Old 2009-02-21, 20:01   Link #1048
Grey Dawn
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You seem like a pretty standard Lelouch fan. But no, he died, confirmed by the staff.
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Old 2009-02-21, 20:04   Link #1049
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I'm laughing in my seat at some of the comments you made there, but, you know, I won't say anything else...my, my...

Oh, uh, people dying in Gundam is inevitable.
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Old 2009-02-21, 20:22   Link #1050
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I agree with the "they didn't make the ending clear" part. Yes, Lelouch's death was confirmed, but they just can't tell me they didn't realize that many people would get it wrong.
Other than that, though, there are a lot of things I disagree with. For example, I really liked the way things turned out - simply because the ending doesn't hold some deep, meaningful morality.
Now people can say that Lelouch was the protagonist, and that his ultimate fate is what counts. But that's just not how it came across for me.
He himself called it a punishment, but he died happily. In my opinion, his life was far more of a "punishment" than his death, and the path he chose was an act of what I call awesome selfishness. So I guess I partly agree here, just that I put it in an other context.
Also, I actually like how so many people were allowed to move on without having to "pay for their crimes" first. Sure, Lelouch deserved a better life, but that's another story.
Code Geass got the fact that not everything is Black and White across quite well in my opinion, despite the undeniable flaws in R2. Lelouch and Suzaku made sure of that, and I always thought the ending was very fitting.
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Old 2009-02-21, 23:34   Link #1051
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Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller View Post
That's the first season. Not the second. Why the hell did you watch the second if all you did was complain about it?

Oh, and last stands are useless? Huh, well, if you could tell that to these examples here...
I was holding out hope that it would get better it didn't.

Also Britannia may be incompetent, but they sure as hell are better than Pakistani and Afhanistan.

I have no idea why the hell you put Operation Red Wing in there.
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Old 2009-02-21, 23:38   Link #1052
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Here's the thing we are told that Todoh is a great military leader, we are told that Todoh is competent even as he leads his entire army to ruin. It's Yugioh all over again where we are told that Mai Valentine is a great duelist even as she loses every match she's in.
Except that losing a match doesn't necessarily mean a duelist is bad. It could also mean that the duelist has had some decidedly unfair matchups. (Not to mention that in general there's more to a duelist's talent than their win record. Let alone the fact that that duelist may have several off-screen wins to offset their on-screen losses.)
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Old 2009-02-21, 23:53   Link #1053
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so they confirmed he was dead(i mean there was alot of arguing in the beginning when nunnally was "confirmed dead" i like to say the ending is open to interpretation
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Old 2009-02-22, 00:04   Link #1054
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It was confirmed as Lelouch being dead at least 5 times from almost every different possible source.
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Old 2009-02-22, 00:54   Link #1055
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Oh, Red Wing was an operational failure, yes. Four SEALS still made the Taliban forces retreat. That is why I put it there.
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Old 2009-02-22, 02:20   Link #1056
Charred Knight
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Oh, Red Wing was an operational failure, yes. Four SEALS still made the Taliban forces retreat. That is why I put it there.
Here's the thing

Britannia is not the Taliban

As bad as Britannia is they are not barely trained soldiers, they are more like half trained soldiers.

Also the Black Knights are not heavily trained soldiers, they are much like Britannia half trained.

With Lelouch gone, there best fighter gone, the Black Knights morale was at rock bottom, and Todoh failed to see that.
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Old 2009-02-22, 05:13   Link #1057
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Originally Posted by LelouchZeroFTW View Post

Blahblahblah
Congratulations on topping Charred Knight in the over the top Sunrise bashing rehash critique whilst proving absolutely nothing at all competition. I hope that wall of text was worth it, because you could have just said "I didn't like the story" and have made exactly the same point in the end instead of trying to blame it all on other people like your average hater of this show seems to love doing.

Anyway now you just have to stick around and rehash all of this a couple 1000 more times and you can take the undisputed title from Charred Knight too. Be warned, this guy is a compulsive complainer so you'll have your work cut out for you. I mean he managed to accomplish making it impossible for people to even have a discussion or to express any sort of appreciation for this show without him butting in and interrupting it with more rehashed complaints and uninvited observations so yeah.....we're always in need of more people to ruin this subforum even more than it's already been ruined so I hope you are up to it.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2009-02-22 at 05:26.
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Old 2009-02-22, 17:46   Link #1058
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Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
The mecha portion in S1 was amazing, specifically it was different from gundam, no flying bullshit, the interplay between the mechs was more tacital, where as flying mecha are great and all but the designs of s2 really mirrored those of the Gundam universe. Other than non unique mech designs in r2, from a technical stand point r2 was awesome
That was a definite negative, but for me that was just a minor issue since Geass was never really a show about the mecha either. Compared to your average Gundam, not much time was spent on them to begin with. I simply lament it and move on.

Quote:
The main problem I had with the story was that r2 lacks a lot of rewatchablitliy, this is because those once shocking plot twists are really not that shocking on a second watch through. Good story telling isn't created by plot twist after another, I just felt that R2 got into this notion that the only way to progress plot was to make a plot twist which isn't the best sense in writing. Some parts were great but the whole mechanism of development could have been worked out better.
I agree about the use ot twists not being a good storytelling technique, but the curious thing about this is I'm having a lot of fun watching the series again as it is airing on Adult Swim. I already know all the plot twists, sure, but I can still figure out how some events are connected in new ways. This also makes it clear that some parts of the plot weren't developed enough, but there are some nice bonuses in my opinion as well. It's still entertaining in that fashion.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong I really enjoyed the series, especially the high production values, character designs, and overall story was satisfying, its just that I judge how good an anime on its rewatch value too, so in r1 i've rewatched that many a times but with r2 I just don't feel the need to revisit every episode, though I have watched a couple of the episodes again r2 compared to r1 just lacks a little something.
Season one is much easier to rewatch, certainly, but right now my experience in rewatching R2 has been more positive than negative, even if I will always regret how certain things didn't turn out as expected.
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Old 2009-02-25, 18:09   Link #1059
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Post continued, Suzaku

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Originally Posted by Xander View Post
Season one is much easier to rewatch, certainly, but right now my experience in rewatching R2 has been more positive than negative, even if I will always regret how certain things didn't turn out as expected.
Following on from the impressions I have described above, it's gonna be a very long time before I watch Code Geass again. But I do agree with you that season 1 is far more palatable as a re-watch than season 2, for me anyway.

I want to add a bit about Suzaku. This is yet another disappointing character, although I can't make myself really hate him. As someone in the programme itself says (I think), he is determined to do the "right" thing, but he always ends up failing. I mean, who would kill their own father because he didn't want to give up? Killing your own father to surrender to a bunch of invaders is pretty evil.

Anyway, if we leave that in the past, what about his actions in this particular "present". Well, he says he is doing what is morally right. He doesn't want to fight like Zero and spill blood in order to bring about change. He says that instead, he will work within the system of oppression to get to a position of power, and then change the system.

Humans are weak, and he would easily have fallen prey to the very same corrupting system that he was trying to change. If, that is, the whole Zero and Black Knights insurgency hadn't started up. This gave him something to focus on and fight against, and allowed him to remember his main aim of trying to change the system. Otherwise, I'm sure someone like Suzaku would have been another Villeta by the time he rose through the ranks. Actually, I didn't factor in Euphemia. If there was no Zero, she would have brought about some real change and Suzaku would have been proven right. BUT if not for Lelouch becoming Zero, Euphemia would not have been appointed governor. So that balances out and I guess I was right the first time .

And what is the final result? He doesn't achieve anything. The only time he is able to bring real change is when Zero/Lelouch has taken over the Empire through force of arms! This forced change allowed him to in the end become Zero and destroy the old order. He wasn't able to do anything while he blindly followed the system. This just goes to show that if you are up against terror and oppression, you have to fight them with full force before you can bring about political change.

Just to add to what I said about Marianne. It was pretty stupid to turn her from loving mother to uncaring callous criminal accomplice. I really can't believe that they changed the whole story like this!!!
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Old 2009-02-26, 10:14   Link #1060
LelouchZeroFTW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Congratulations on topping Charred Knight in the over the top Sunrise bashing rehash critique whilst proving absolutely nothing at all competition. I hope that wall of text was worth it, because you could have just said "I didn't like the story" and have made exactly the same point in the end instead of trying to blame it all on other people like your average hater of this show seems to love doing.

Anyway now you just have to stick around and rehash all of this a couple 1000 more times and you can take the undisputed title from Charred Knight too. Be warned, this guy is a compulsive complainer so you'll have your work cut out for you. I mean he managed to accomplish making it impossible for people to even have a discussion or to express any sort of appreciation for this show without him butting in and interrupting it with more rehashed complaints and uninvited observations so yeah.....we're always in need of more people to ruin this subforum even more than it's already been ruined so I hope you are up to it.
You are guilty of what you accuse me of, not me. I voiced my opinion on the series. I don't have to love everything that Sunrise spews out just because you do. I have described quite clearly what I think about this series as a whole, which was mostly negative because of the ghastly and absurd second season.

You admit you didn't even read what I wrote, so you have no right to judge my contribution to this thread. I didn't realise the purpose of this sub forum was just to fanatically praise Sunrise in a five word sentence. lol. It's as if free speech actually hurts you!

Moving on...

The more I think about this series, the more it feels like this is just an improved rehash of Gundam Seed. If you think about it, all the characters in this series are just differently drawn versions of those characters. We even have a guy with a mask on who swaps sides from the "enemy" side to the protaganist side (ie. Neo). Suzaku is Asthlan, Zero/Lelouch is Kira, Nannaly is Lacus Klein, Kallen its Cagalli, Area 11 is Orb, etc. etc.

Gundam Seed was overwhelmingly weak, and this was just a slightly more mature version of that. Pity, as they had such a fun and interesting backstory and plot idea with the whole Geass and Britannia line. So sad, hence: Epic Fail!
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