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Old 2008-10-24, 12:53   Link #301
Tk3997
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*TK runs in and grabs the spotlight from Xena*
"Mine!"

Spoiler for The Other Girls Chapter 2:


I couldn't find anyone to beta this so it might not be great mechanically I tried to be more careful this time though, but since once more I sat down and wrote like 90% of it in a marathon it hard to say if it'll really be any better.
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Old 2008-10-24, 20:42   Link #302
Kha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*snort* I love it when people point at the bugs in WAR, even though WoW was no different. The decision to wait for a bit is a smart one though, and it wouldn't surprise me if many more people are doing so. There's a big patch coming in December that should iron out a lot of bugs, make it more playable on lower-end systems, and re-introduce two of the previously dropped classes.

As for me, I'm a WoW launch-vet, so WoW has long since lost most of its appeal to me, I played it, but I was playing it for my friends. When WAR came out, all of my friends living close by sat around the table and decided to jump ship. With all my close friends going for WAR, there was little reason for me to stay behind.

WAR was a fresh wind that came exactly at the time I needed it.
Ah... With most of my friends staying put, and no extra funds to make the leap (40K took up what's left. ), no reason for me to jump over seriously just yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Fangirl? Nah, Alexis is the token ever stubborn, cheerful hyperactive member of the Squadron.
Considering that she's biting at Momoko's heels, who is also that said token chara, because from day one the lieutenant shows up addressing Kirby by name and is practically stuck to him but not because of her personality, I guess Antoinette might accommodate Alexis' whims to some point before facepalming when it gets extreme?

Why am I answering this for you Anita... >.>

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Try making a group of engineers and go play a few scenarios.
No friends on Order...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I've been digging a bit deeper in Little Busters! Last night, and oh do I love Rin. <3 She's so similar to the Keroko template, cool, but cute at the same time.

I think a change in Avatar and Sig is coming soon. <3
I noticed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
She's still a battle maniac... just with a lot less Ork.
Good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
You think? The Bastion is lazy... it needs more work to look like a real fortress.
Look at mine; I was just recolored from something else. Your's is much more original than mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
The time you are using up for an overrated MMO could be used to widen your horizon and broaden your culture, something you could inject later in your own creations.
But- but- We need more alts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Like eagerly anticipating The Old Republic?

...

*cough* Or maybe watching more History Channel online, if you want to learn something relevant to Strike Witches. Heck, the history channel website itself hosts free episodes for anyone to watch!
...egads not another one.

Make a 40K MMO and I will drop everything and run.

Duly noted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kct View Post
Karlslander.

Spoiler for Leutnant Justine “Club” Schroeder:


Spoiler for Author's note:
Oooh, a 1972 ace trained by a war vet. Nice. And noticibly harsh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis View Post
Heh.

Alright, it's been a while, but I've finished cracking.

Hopefully it turns out fine, because I can't seem to remember that I wrote some of this stuff, which is bad

I don't what I'm getting into, doing two stories at one time, but here goes nothing anyway!

Spoiler for I, Witch - Sands of Afrika I:


And then the second....

Spoiler for Winter War - Road to Alamein I:


And Normal Life Resumes...
Kha, put this on my tab if you can, as "SWOC Version 1.0.1.1 Update"

Xena, out
Don't bite off more than you can chew.

That said, these 2 chaps turned out fine. I like the narration, and the way you handle dialogue is waaay beyond mine.

So this is the famous Commander AKA harem leader Rommel?

And more songs... Bleah I know none of the past. ><

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
*TK runs in and grabs the spotlight from Xena*
"Mine!"

Spoiler for The Other Girls Chapter 2:


I couldn't find anyone to beta this so it might not be great mechanically I tried to be more careful this time though, but since once more I sat down and wrote like 90% of it in a marathon it hard to say if it'll really be any better.
Nah its good enough.

...and Kha is really like O'Hare.
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Old 2008-10-24, 21:19   Link #303
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis View Post
Heh.

Alright, it's been a while, but I've finished cracking.

Hopefully it turns out fine, because I can't seem to remember that I wrote some of this stuff, which is bad

I don't what I'm getting into, doing two stories at one time, but here goes nothing anyway!
I had something like that in mind myself with one story set during the squadrons official formation (this one) and another sometime later roughly around the same time as the anime.

Quote:
Spoiler for I, Witch - Sands of Afrika I:


And then the second....

Spoiler for Winter War - Road to Alamein I:


And Normal Life Resumes...
Kha, put this on my tab if you can, as "SWOC Version 1.0.1.1 Update"

Xena, out
That was pretty good although frankly at some points the text was so purple I found it bordering on painful.

I mean really, do we NEED over a paragraph of flowery prose about how the desert is very sandy and this is irritating? I was seriously at some points was having some trouble telling what exactly was going on amidst the storm of verbiage, pretty adjectives, and overblown metaphors… I don’t think we really need to see that you own a totally bitchin’ thesaurus in every paragraph. This is of course to some extent a style preference though, so take it or leave it, but I personally felt it was overdone in some areas.

I also found quite a bit of the first conversation among the witches at the end of the second fic rather confusing as it was hard to tell who exactly was talking quite a bit of the time.

These are mostly quibbles though and more content is never bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Ah... With most of my friends staying put, and no extra funds to make the leap (40K took up what's left. ), no reason for me to jump over seriously just yet.
MMO have never done much for me myself, and I'm way to poor for them anyway.

Quote:
Look at mine; I was just recolored from something else. Your's is much more original than mine.
Look at mi... wait I don't HAVE any art.

Quote:
Don't bite off more than you can chew.
Nonsense doing so is a long and proud tradition among us.

Quote:
So this is the famous Commander AKA harem leader Rommel?
Rommel Harem, yup definitely one of my better ideas...

Quote:
Nah its good enough.

...and Kha is really like O'Hare.
It’s your own damn fault for comparing yourself to her in the chat. Although really there was no possible way a character based on you WASN'T going to end up as a good natured air head.
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Old 2008-10-25, 06:34   Link #304
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Now for ATX-4!

Spoiler for Tessa-chaaaaan~~~:
Hey she's based off an Ace too ya know.
Quick rundown of things I see:
Rank:
Captain is an OF-3 in the US Army and Air Force an OF-2 would be a Lieutenant First Class.

Romagna:

From canon it seems Romagna never actually fell, but I could see them evacuating some of there most valued people to a safer area, particularly scientist to allow them to work unmolested. Still given that this would be small scale thing it seems HIGHLY unlikely that a child would simply be lost during this process. A better option would seem to simply have her killed (or assumed so perhaps) in one of the early Neuroi raids, same effect with allot less silliness.

Arf:

Arf talking… I have issues with that despite some signs of noticeable intelligence familiars still appear to be animals and wolves do not have vocal cords. I’d consider Making it some kind of mental link that perhaps unusually many normal people can hear, still a stretch in my view, but more palatable. The transforming thing seems both totally unneeded and totally against the setting. Again ADAPT, don’t copy and paste. Using Arf as a base for a familiar is fine, but just trying to port her wholesale with almost no changes is not going to work. Much as we bemoan the shafting of Zaf in StrikerS I’d use how he acts there as a model, aside from the talking thing at least, well that and the crazy magic spells.

The Entire Neuroi Tech Nonsense:
I’d ditch the jacket. It has no canon support, and is you ask me is too far outside what seems possible in my view. Maybe in some future setting it might be more allowable (since “future” in many animes seems to involve skin tight cat suits for battledress), but in the current WWII setting it looks extremely out of place. It also seems to be based of something you just invented wholesale in most sources the Neuroi are simply made of metal, not some mysterious crap that seems vaguely based around what Necrons are made of… The scythe is the same deal and totally unneeded to boot as using magic witches can already slice up Neuroi with normal steel weapons, so good work wasting a million dollars to produce a mono-molecular butter knife, never mind that the OLD butter knife worked just fine.

They’re “Drive” also normally seems consists of propellers albeit rather too small to likely be able to support there weight, so some kind of mass lightening or such might be argued. Even so the humans just stealing and slapping this into a striker seems a big stretch to me. It also seems of questionable use as Witches are already faster and more maneuverable then most Neuroi indicating that there normal propulsion systems are of comparable or superior power. As such the logical avenue would be continue improving those not going off on a wild tangent trying to adapt an alien system that doesn’t produce noticeably superior results in most circumstances.

The Gauss rifle is just right out, Neuroi have never used ANYTHING vaguely like an EM gun. They used fairly normal cannons and machine guns, and then later in something of a jarring disconnect suddenly spammed beams, but no where in there did they have rail or gauss weapons.

I don’t like all this reverse engineering in general though for a simple reason: reverse engineering is fucking hard. WAY harder then most people seem to think, it’s one thing to build something when you have a guy sitting there telling you how it works, and what you’re doing wrong, but it’s another to just grab some alien shit you found in a ditch and suddenly produce a working copy in a matter of a few years AT MOST. Warlock was most jarring in that aspect and indeed quite a few people seem to wish it had never happened… I am to some extent one of them and would rather like to reduce the damage it did, not use it as an excuse to jam the knife in deeper and turn the tear in the universes tone and tech level into a gaping sucking chest wound, used to justify random crack that totally goes against the setting.

I also find this entire theory this stuff is based on rather suspect as frankly the evidence that the power DOES come from the core is rather great. For one what was clearly the Warlocks power source was rather blatantly either a salvaged core or a copy, and the rest of it looked to be more or less human built. If the core was merely the brain you’d also rather expect that when destroyed Neuroi units would simply crash, not EXPLODE.

So yeah I short I’m rather down on more or less everything to do with this reversed engineered shit. I have no problem with an experimental unit, but I’d rather that experimental unit being experimenting with stuff that would make sense liked advanced new model strikers and weapons. Not random alien shit, it’s not like there some shortage of things to test World War II is FULL of random experimental craft and systems that never quite got off the ground, and they’d almost all be much less objectionable then all this Neuroi tech. Or if you must make stuff up maybe consider some kinds of other slightly out there tech that at least somewhat fits the setting I'd be thinking steampunk more then sci-fi though.

The Singing:

The song thing I actually have no issues with I think you made it well balanced.
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Old 2008-10-25, 07:33   Link #305
Keroko
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On the subject of familiars, first of, familiars do have the ability to communicate. In the first chapter of the novel, Tomoko's familiar talks to her telepathically, though we don't know if they can communicate verbally but considering they are spirits rather then normal animals, its not at all outside of the realm of possibility.

Also, familiars are contracted rather then created according to the manga, which shows Yoshika's familiar escaping from a shrine, drawn to her by her magic. Familiars transforming I've seen no support of whatsoever.

On the subject of what makes a Striker fly, while selkirk has the booklets and can give a better answer on this, according to the older scans they 'use the ether in the atmosphere to power propeller style magic foci to produce thrust' which could explaining the size-to-weight issue (though it's really just another way of saying 'it's magic'), while it doesn't really step outside of regular aerodynamics either.

On Warlock, there's a simple way to negate Warlock. Considering it went berserk, you could easily say it was 'taken over by the Neuroi' now, if your most powerful weaponry was already taken over by the Neuroi once, do you really want to risk mass-producing them just so the Neuroi can do it again? After all, the next time they might take it over before it destroys an entire hive, rather then after.
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Old 2008-10-25, 08:05   Link #306
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
On the subject of familiars, first of, familiars do have the ability to communicate. In the first chapter of the novel, Tomoko's familiar talks to her telepathically, though we don't know if they can communicate verbally but considering they are spirits rather then normal animals, its not at all outside of the realm of possibility.
Actually I should have been a bit clearer I don't doubt that witches could talk to them; although I did forget that example. I'm just not sure other people can. Actually the reason you just mentioned is better then my own: If normal people might not even be able to see them judging by the manga how could they hear them? I always felt that the familiar's communications should be limited basically to witch it's attached too, but then again this aspect of the verse is poorly explained, among what us English fans can find, so there is wiggle room.

Still I don't like the idea of a Familiar that can just wander around holding casual conversations, that seems against the setting in some way. Then we have some parts of the verse that just seem to ignore the entire thing, which is more or less what I've been doing. Messing with the familiars seems like allot of work for minimal pay off, which I suspect is why they seem to fade away with time even in the works that start off including them. Really allot of the point of them just seems to be to give the girls cutesy little pets...

Quote:
Also, familiars are contracted rather then created according to the manga, which shows Yoshika's familiar escaping from a shrine, drawn to her by her magic. Familiars transforming I've seen no support of whatsoever.
Well her's was blundered upon like that, but I'm not sure if that's the ONLY way (I could be wrong). It seems seems somewhat improbable that there are thousands and thousands of random spirit animals running around for witches to blunder upon. So even if maybe they don't "create" them persay I'd say that most of them still probably summon and then bind the familiar to themselves.

Quote:
On the subject of what makes a Striker fly, while selkirk has the booklets and can give a better answer on this, according to the older scans they 'use the ether in the atmosphere to power propeller style magic foci to produce thrust' which could explaining the size-to-weight issue (though it's really just another way of saying 'it's magic'), while it doesn't really step outside of regular aerodynamics either.
Acutally if I'm recalling it right and as he's explained it to me and others in IRC (yes he shows up there now and again) the process is pretty simple the "magic engine" basically just burns the magic provided by the witch instead of gas and turns it into mechanical energy which is then transferred into the air via the little propeller things at which point normal rules apply.

Quote:
On Warlock, there's a simple way to negate Warlock. Considering it went berserk, you could easily say it was 'taken over by the Neuroi' now, if your most powerful weaponry was already taken over by the Neuroi once, do you really want to risk mass-producing them just so the Neuroi can do it again? After all, the next time they might take it over before it destroys an entire hive, rather then after.
That would be the most logical way, to just say it was judged too dangerous to keep tampering with such things; at least in a combat unit.
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Old 2008-10-25, 08:17   Link #307
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Actually I should have been a bit clearer I don't doubt that witches could talk to them; although I did forget that example. I'm just not sure other people can. Actually the reason you just mentioned is better then my own: If normal people might not even be able to see them judging by the manga how could they hear them? I always felt that the familiar's communications should be limited basically to witch it's attached too, but then again this aspect of the verse is poorly explained, among what us English fans can find, so there is wiggle room.

Still I don't like the idea of a Familiar that can just wander around holding casual conversations, that seems against the setting in some way. Then we have some parts of the verse that just seem to ignore the entire thing, which is more or less what I've been doing. Messing with the familiars seems like allot of work for minimal pay off, which I suspect is why they seem to fade away with time even in the works that start off including them. Really allot of the point of them just seems to be to give the girls cutesy little pets...
Well, naturally familiars will have a hard time conversation with people who can't even see them, but other powerful Witches could be possible. Takei was able to see Yoshika's familiar as well, after all.

Though I agree messing with the familiars is a lot of work, even the novels have only mentioned them as far as I've read, and don't really seem to do a lot of things with them.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Well her's was blundered upon like that, but I'm not sure if that's the ONLY way (I could be wrong). It seems seems somewhat improbable that there are thousands and thousands of random spirit animals running around for witches to blunder upon. So even if maybe they don't "create" them persay I'd say that most of them still probably summon and then bind the familiar to themselves.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing that familiars can't be summoned, however Kha puts the summoning of Arf as Fransesca creating Arf, and while I have no doubt the summoning of familiars is a norm rather then an exception, creating a spirit is something I can't see done in the Strike Witches scene.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Acutally if I'm recalling it right and as he's explained it to me and others in IRC (yes he shows up there now and again) the process is pretty simple the "magic engine" basically just burns the magic provided by the witch instead of gas and turns it into mechanical energy which is then transferred into the air via the little propeller things at which point normal rules apply.
That settles that then.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
That would be the most logical way, to just say it was judged too dangerous to keep tampering with such things; at least in a combat unit.
Pretty much anything would be risky using Neuroi technology.
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Old 2008-10-25, 09:18   Link #308
selkirk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
On the subject of familiars, first of, familiars do have the ability to communicate. In the first chapter of the novel, Tomoko's familiar talks to her telepathically, though we don't know if they can communicate verbally but considering they are spirits rather then normal animals, its not at all outside of the realm of possibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Actually I should have been a bit clearer I don't doubt that witches could talk to them; although I did forget that example. I'm just not sure other people can. Actually the reason you just mentioned is better then my own: If normal people might not even be able to see them judging by the manga how could they hear them? I always felt that the familiar's communications should be limited basically to witch it's attached too, but then again this aspect of the verse is poorly explained, among what us English fans can find, so there is wiggle room.

Still I don't like the idea of a Familiar that can just wander around holding casual conversations, that seems against the setting in some way. Then we have some parts of the verse that just seem to ignore the entire thing, which is more or less what I've been doing. Messing with the familiars seems like allot of work for minimal pay off, which I suspect is why they seem to fade away with time even in the works that start off including them. Really allot of the point of them just seems to be to give the girls cutesy little pets...
In the second manga, Yoshika's and Goshiki's familiars speak to the entire group, vocally. It should be noted that the second manga really departs from the tone of the project as a whole though, and all the other media has a huge de-emphasis on familiars. The second manga also got unbelievably stupid with the most recent chapter (yes, that's the only way I can think of to describe it <_<), though there's a new chapter coming out in a few days...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
On the subject of what makes a Striker fly, while selkirk has the booklets and can give a better answer on this, according to the older scans they 'use the ether in the atmosphere to power propeller style magic foci to produce thrust' which could explaining the size-to-weight issue (though it's really just another way of saying 'it's magic'), while it doesn't really step outside of regular aerodynamics either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Acutally if I'm recalling it right and as he's explained it to me and others in IRC (yes he shows up there now and again) the process is pretty simple the "magic engine" basically just burns the magic provided by the witch instead of gas and turns it into mechanical energy which is then transferred into the air via the little propeller things at which point normal rules apply.
A magic engine uses (supposedly) mechanical principles to amplify a witch's innate magical powers. Without a magic engine, a witch is generally reduced to things like moving objects slightly, or raising a protective field (temperature/miasma/physical are all mentioned in canon). Prior to the invention of the magic engine, witches were already used in armies to provide protection for VIPs, though their other abilities were of less practical use. However, with a magic engine, they can use magic to perform more complex mechanical work.

The magic engine amplifies magic mechanically, it doesn't do any work itself. A Striker unit consists of a magic engine, "spell activation machinery" (呪符発生機), some cooling equipment, and probably other things. The booklet for DVD2 has an article on the Striker Lift-off Unit, the thing the Strikers are stored on, and it mentions that the lift-off unit supplies the Striker with electricity and compressed air, which helps in starting up the magic engine, and reduces the magic expenditure of the witch as she takes off. Anyway, after amplification via the magic engine, the magic power is directed to the spell activators, which form and rotate (usually 3-4) propellers, which then push on ether in the atmosphere, providing lift and thrust. The magic arrays formed on a base or carrier also help during lift-off.
(Underlined line is from DVD booklet 1, which is the newest canon info provided.)

(Booklet 2 also has very important and informative articles on Sanya's Pillow, Lucchini's Blanket, Teacup, Teapot, and Miyafuji's Photo Stand, among others. Such as many pages-long articles on the geo-politics and logistics in Britannia and Gallia, but what's that compared to knowing all about the teacups the Witches use? Right? Right?)
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Old 2008-10-25, 09:26   Link #309
Kha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Rank:
Captain is an OF-3 in the US Army and Air Force an OF-2 would be a Lieutenant First Class.
Wiki has it otherwise. Major being OF-3, Captain OF-2, and 1st, 2nd LTs are both OF-1. Is that correct? or am I looking at it wrong again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Romagna:
From canon it seems Romagna never actually fell, but I could see them evacuating some of there most valued people to a safer area, particularly scientist to allow them to work unmolested. Still given that this would be small scale thing it seems HIGHLY unlikely that a child would simply be lost during this process. A better option would seem to simply have her killed (or assumed so perhaps) in one of the early Neuroi raids, same effect with allot less silliness.
Changed to assumed missing after a raid, since I thot Romagna fell. Also, the Testarossas have been living in Liberion ever since the raid killed her husband as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Arf: Arf talking… I have issues with that despite some signs of noticeable intelligence familiars still appear to be animals and wolves do not have vocal cords. I’d consider Making it some kind of mental link that perhaps unusually many normal people can hear, still a stretch in my view, but more palatable. The transforming thing seems both totally unneeded and totally against the setting. Again ADAPT, don’t copy and paste. Using Arf as a base for a familiar is fine, but just trying to port her wholesale with almost no changes is not going to work. Much as we bemoan the shafting of Zaf in StrikerS I’d use how he acts there as a model, aside from the talking thing at least, well that and the crazy magic spells.
There goes my attempt to pull a Zero no Tsukaima 3 ref. I thot familiars were like Nanoha in that aspect. Removed transformation, nerfed speech to only mental link with Fran, and when near Fran can use her ability to communicate via radio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
The Entire Neuroi Tech Nonsense:
I’d ditch the jacket. It has no canon support, and is you ask me is too far outside what seems possible in my view. Maybe in some future setting it might be more allowable (since “future” in many animes seems to involve skin tight cat suits for battledress), but in the current WWII setting it looks extremely out of place. It also seems to be based of something you just invented wholesale in most sources the Neuroi are simply made of metal, not some mysterious crap that seems vaguely based around what Necrons are made of… The scythe is the same deal and totally unneeded to boot as using magic witches can already slice up Neuroi with normal steel weapons, so good work wasting a million dollars to produce a mono-molecular butter knife, never mind that the OLD butter knife worked just fine.
I had a mental image of Neuroi flapping, then realized it was a misfiled memory. Barrier Jacket filed away for future use, in its stead is a "shark skin" fabric to reduce drag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
They’re “Drive” also normally seems consists of propellers albeit rather too small to likely be able to support there weight, so some kind of mass lightening or such might be argued. Even so the humans just stealing and slapping this into a striker seems a big stretch to me. It also seems of questionable use as Witches are already faster and more maneuverable then most Neuroi indicating that there normal propulsion systems are of comparable or superior power. As such the logical avenue would be continue improving those not going off on a wild tangent trying to adapt an alien system that doesn’t produce noticeably superior results in most circumstances.
It's not so much a propulsion issue; it's a power plant to power the Neuroi beam weapons. I assumed this from the fact that Neuroi can regenerate anything outside their Core meaning a extra-crystallic power plant would be cellular in organization, and max power output is dependent on the number of cells. There's a lot of power in humanoid Neuroi, and that itself proves the power able to be derived by a cellular power plant supplementing the magic engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
The Gauss rifle is just right out, Neuroi have never used ANYTHING vaguely like an EM gun. They used fairly normal cannons and machine guns, and then later in something of a jarring disconnect suddenly spammed beams, but no where in there did they have rail or gauss weapons.
I simply chose the word Gauss as the final nail of the Necron refs I've been pulling. A more accurate description would be again Neuroi beam weapons, and it has been changed to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I don’t like all this reverse engineering shit in general though for a simple reason: reverse engineering is fucking hard. WAY harder then most people seem to think, it’s one thing to build something when you have a guy sitting there telling you how it works, and what you’re doing wrong, but it’s another to just grab some alien shit you found in a ditch and suddenly produce a working copy in a matter of a few years AT MOST. Warlock was most jarring in that aspect and indeed quite a few people seem to wish it had never happened… I am to some extent one of them and would rather like to reduce the damage it did, not use it as an excuse to jam the knife in deeper and turn the tear in the universes tone and tech level in a gapping sucking chest wound, used to justify random crack that totally goes against the setting.
In that case, objection denied. The Warlock exists as far as I can tell, and I am going to use it. Furthermore, that commander went and blew so many safeguards. Whoever built the Warlock would've been shaking his head in disbelief. Anyway, I've removed all possible means of losing control on the Neuroi machines, just whether you agree it works or not.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I also find this entire theory this stuff is based on rather suspect as frankly the evidence that the power DOES come from the core is rather great. For one what was clearly the Warlocks power source was rather blatantly either a salvaged core or a copy, and the rest of it looked to be more or less human built. If the core was merely the brain you’d also rather expect that when destroyed Neuroi units would simply crash, not EXPLODE.
If you think that way, of core being brain and power, then you'll understand why Britainnia built the Warlock that way. But Rakshata turned that notion on its head with this theory, and after some analysis, was vindicated.

The core functions as the Neuroi's mid-brain. Like in humans. destruction is lethal even though it only has a control role.

She also discovered that the core regulates the high energies flowing through the being like a heart, and destroying that removes all limits on energy flow. This energy escapes rapidly into the parallel dimension of magic (same one as where the Witches' leg go) and it rips the Neuroi to pieces. As the energy leaves, the neuroichondrosis depower and lose color, creating the illusion of flying shards of glass.

With this, all they needed then was the replicate that stabilization system and insert it into the WARLOCK, then have the Witch as the brain, suddenly, it works without any possibility of control loss.

And that's for a full WARLOCK suit. Smaller caliber weapons can use that Neuroi energy plus mana supplied by a Witch, making beam weaponry possible under a Witch's hands.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
So yeah I short I’m rather down on more or less everything to do with this reversed engineered shit. I have no problem with an experimental unit, but I’d rather that experimental unit being experimenting with stuff that would make sense liked advanced new model strikers and weapons. Not random alien shit, it’s not like there some shortage of things to test World War II is FULL of random experimental craft and systems that never quite got off the ground, and they’d almost all be much less objectionable then all this Neuroi shit.
They do never run out of things to test. The N-pak power plant, the WARLOCK-derived technology are just a small part of the giant pletora of tests that the ATX, SRX, and other still-classified teams are working on.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post

The Singing:

The song thing I actually have no issues with I think you made it well balanced.
At least something passed on first try.
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Old 2008-10-25, 11:17   Link #310
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
At least she won't get hit on the head with thrown stuff whenever she barges into the locker room.
Even thou she acts like a guy, she will still be more accepted in all-girl environments then a real guy.
Yes, but whether being accepted as a girl is a good thing is up for debate, as it means they'll treat her like a girl as well, thus increasing the awkwardness.

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Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
You may want to add battlements and give it a more gray stoneish look.

At the moment it reminds me of... cake
Cake, I didn't think of that yet...

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Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
I sooo hope this won't be another Galaxies.
Well... It sounds pretty cool so far. And playing a Sith is always a big bonus!
They're planning to follow the KotoR style: Even as a Sith you can do good things, and even as a Jedi you can do bad things. I hope this means they'll give us something MMO's rarely give us: Choice.

Do I let this guy live, or do I kill him? Do I pay for this man, or do I butcher the one demanding payment? Do I side with A or with B?

Choices like that are too rare in MMO's.

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Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis View Post
Heh.

Alright, it's been a while, but I've finished cracking.

Hopefully it turns out fine, because I can't seem to remember that I wrote some of this stuff, which is bad

I don't what I'm getting into, doing two stories at one time, but here goes nothing anyway!

Spoiler for I, Witch - Sands of Afrika I:


And Normal Life Resumes...
Kha, put this on my tab if you can, as "SWOC Version 1.0.1.1 Update"

Xena, out
Blar, too much text for busy me. >_<

Well, it looks like you have quite the battle-scarred OC there. Now I'm curious as to what has happened.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
*TK runs in and grabs the spotlight from Xena*
"Mine!"

Spoiler for The Other Girls Chapter 2:


I couldn't find anyone to beta this so it might not be great mechanically I tried to be more careful this time though, but since once more I sat down and wrote like 90% of it in a marathon it hard to say if it'll really be any better.
Brutal Thomasina is brutal. No remorse in that girl, is there?

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Originally Posted by selkirk View Post
In the second manga, Yoshika's and Goshiki's familiars speak to the entire group, vocally. It should be noted that the second manga really departs from the tone of the project as a whole though, and all the other media has a huge de-emphasis on familiars. The second manga also got unbelievably stupid with the most recent chapter (yes, that's the only way I can think of to describe it <_<), though there's a new chapter coming out in a few days...
Emotional tone or the setting itself? I mean, I can see how they depart on the emotional tone considering the setting up to chapter 4 is more like a high-school setting rather then a military one, but the setting itself (Neuroi design, Neuroi background, familiars) seems to be much closer to the novels then the anime, which basically altered the first, never did much with the second but altered what they did, and never mentioned the third. Not to mention the anime made it seem as if Brittania was the only front, and the 501st was the only Witch squadron.

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Originally Posted by selkirk View Post
A magic engine uses (supposedly) mechanical principles to amplify a witch's innate magical powers. Without a magic engine, a witch is generally reduced to things like moving objects slightly, or raising a protective field (temperature/miasma/physical are all mentioned in canon). Prior to the invention of the magic engine, witches were already used in armies to provide protection for VIPs, though their other abilities were of less practical use. However, with a magic engine, they can use magic to perform more complex mechanical work.

The magic engine amplifies magic mechanically, it doesn't do any work itself. A Striker unit consists of a magic engine, "spell activation machinery" (呪符発生機), some cooling equipment, and probably other things. The booklet for DVD2 has an article on the Striker Lift-off Unit, the thing the Strikers are stored on, and it mentions that the lift-off unit supplies the Striker with electricity and compressed air, which helps in starting up the magic engine, and reduces the magic expenditure of the witch as she takes off. Anyway, after amplification via the magic engine, the magic power is directed to the spell activators, which form and rotate (usually 3-4) propellers, which then push on ether in the atmosphere, providing lift and thrust. The magic arrays formed on a base or carrier also help during lift-off.
(Underlined line is from DVD booklet 1, which is the newest canon info provided.)
Ah, so those standards do serve a purpose other then ease of access, that's good to know.

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Originally Posted by selkirk View Post
(Booklet 2 also has very important and informative articles on Sanya's Pillow, Lucchini's Blanket, Teacup, Teapot, and Miyafuji's Photo Stand, among others. Such as many pages-long articles on the geo-politics and logistics in Britannia and Gallia, but what's that compared to knowing all about the teacups the Witches use? Right? Right?)
Yes, we must know about those teacups! Even though the chances of many of us actually using the 501st Witches are low, and the political and logistical information on Brittania and Gallia would be much more useful, we must know about those teacups!

... Okay, maybe that was a bit too much sarcasm. <_<

Thanks for the translations, Selkirk.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
It's not so much a propulsion issue; it's a power plant to power the Neuroi beam weapons. I assumed this from the fact that Neuroi can regenerate anything outside their Core meaning a extra-crystallic power plant would be cellular in organization, and max power output is dependent on the number of cells. There's a lot of power in humanoid Neuroi, and that itself proves the power able to be derived by a cellular power plant supplementing the magic engine.
Considering Neuroi are made out of metal, a human powering a Neuroi core seems really unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
In that case, objection denied. The Warlock exists as far as I can tell, and I am going to use it. Furthermore, that commander went and blew so many safeguards. Whoever built the Warlock would've been shaking his head in disbelief. Anyway, I've removed all possible means of losing control on the Neuroi machines, just whether you agree it works or not.
You're missing the point, we've already seen that using the Neuroi's own technology against them doesn't work just like that, as they'll just take over whatever technology you create. What would happen if Neuroi took over your beam weapon, or even the entire suit, and made you fire at your own comrades?

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
With this, all they needed then was the replicate that stabilization system and insert it into the WARLOCK, then have the Witch as the brain, suddenly, it works without any possibility of control loss.
Doubtful. Assuming the hive-mind theory, it's still Neuroi in origin, so a Neuroi mind would override the human mind in the hierarchy, allowing the Neuroi to take control.
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Old 2008-10-25, 13:19   Link #311
Tk3997
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Wiki has it otherwise. Major being OF-3, Captain OF-2, and 1st, 2nd LTs are both OF-1. Is that correct? or am I looking at it wrong again?
Many NATO nations have a different standards so Captain is Standardized among them as O-2, but for the US armed forces a Captain is O-3.

Quote:
There goes my attempt to pull a Zero no Tsukaima 3 ref. I thot familiars were like Nanoha in that aspect. Removed transformation, nerfed speech to only mental link with Fran, and when near Fran can use her ability to communicate via radio.
Acutally the speech was canon it turns out; although in an as yet unreleased source.

Most of the rest of this has been thoroughly trashed in IRC so I'm not going to repeat it all. Though on that note I would like to say sorry for maybe coming down a little hard some of the ideas purposed where pretty awful, but some of them might be able to work with some modification… some of them at least. Can talk about it later though...

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Yes, but whether being accepted as a girl is a good thing is up for debate, as it means they'll treat her like a girl as well, thus increasing the awkwardness.
To turn all this on its ear think about it this, gender roles are learned. They're learned from many sources but your peers and the culture you're in are very big ones, and your early teens are a key time in developing many of those roles. Now consider who the peers are and what the culture would be like among the witches of that age in WWII. It would likely be a culture about violence, a definite social hierarchy, and that values physical prowess and toughness as well aggression. Now given that what sort of behavior do you think would predominate? I think you'd quickly find most of the "girls" are suddenly starting to act very much like teenage boys, and it seems quite unlikely many of them would fit into our current definitions of “girly” at all.

There would also probably be a very large disconnect from the female population at large again due to culture. The witches would likely act very different then there more normal peers, due to there experience (even excluding combat). They would likely be noticeably more assertive, belligerent, and less willing to assent to men’s wishes then average girls of there age at that time. They might well be regarded by many as rather bitchy and impudent by there elders, and intimidating by male peers. This could likewise go along way to explaining why they chose mainly to associate with each other by the looks of it, and have minimal contact with outsiders for the most part.

But this is just me showing off that I've taken sociology classes so ignore my ramblings.

Quote:
They're planning to follow the KotoR style: Even as a Sith you can do good things, and even as a Jedi you can do bad things. I hope this means they'll give us something MMO's rarely give us: Choice.

Do I let this guy live, or do I kill him? Do I pay for this man, or do I butcher the one demanding payment? Do I side with A or with B?

Choices like that are too rare in MMO's.
"I'm sick of games that claim to have choice, but that only come down to Mother Teresa or baby eating, all I'm saying is that a little middle ground is nice now and then."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...ion/4-BioShock

Quote:
Brutal Thomasina is brutal. No remorse in that girl, is there?
You know who she's based on right... Side’s she’s just Tsundere only without the dere and the Tsun replaced with vitriolic hate.

Quote:
Emotional tone or the setting itself? I mean, I can see how they depart on the emotional tone considering the setting up to chapter 4 is more like a high-school setting rather then a military one, but the setting itself (Neuroi design, Neuroi background, familiars) seems to be much closer to the novels then the anime, which basically altered the first, never did much with the second but altered what they did, and never mentioned the third. Not to mention the anime made it seem as if Brittania was the only front, and the 501st was the only Witch squadron.
Sel is a huge tease he drops all these hints and tidbits and then leaves us hanging and bumbling around in the dark like a bunch of blind mentally handicapped two year old's...

Quote:
Yes, we must know about those teacups! Even though the chances of many of us actually using the 501st Witches are low, and the political and logistical information on Brittania and Gallia would be much more useful, we must know about those teacups!
I have some ideas for them myself some less cracky then others, but none of them really hinge upon intimate knowledge of there table settings...

Quote:
... Okay, maybe that was a bit too much sarcasm. <_<
Na! There is after all, as we all full well know, no way there couldn't possibly ever be such a thing as too much sarcasm!

Quote:
Thanks for the translations, Selkirk.
Yes thanks... now work faster slave!
No seriously please don't stop if you do we'll all go emo and dress in dark wigs, put on lots of eye liner, and mope around all day composing bad poetry and trust me you don't want THAT.
Quote:
Considering Neuroi are made out of metal, a human powering a Neuroi core seems really unlikely.
Hey metal is good for you we could all use more iron in our diet! (and magnesium, and zinc, but not so much lead though that stuffs not so good, and it's particularity bad for you if administered hot and at several hundred meters per second...)
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Old 2008-10-25, 20:58   Link #312
Kha
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Considering Neuroi are made out of metal, a human powering a Neuroi core seems really unlikely.
The core is powering the system, the human is controlling the systems powered by the core, and the Liberian core itself has been altered such that it is akin to a retarded child-- It's not going to respond to hive signals. However, this comes at a price, the power output is less than a fully formed core and hence no stacking of beams from 1 panel, but firing large single shots or rapidfiring several smaller ones.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
You're missing the point, we've already seen that using the Neuroi's own technology against them doesn't work just like that, as they'll just take over whatever technology you create. What would happen if Neuroi took over your beam weapon, or even the entire suit, and made you fire at your own comrades?
I do believe you are missing it. 2 safeguards were in place before the Warlock was lost:

- Remote control with HQ.
- 5 Warlock to form a self-conscious network.

All points to lost of control instead of being taken over. Also, if Miyafugi's words were to be taken seriously (we all know that it was wrong to not do so), "the Warlock was different from Neuroi." It had become something more sinister. That to me looks like the Lock itself turned on the world like a spoiled brat and threw one heck of a tantrum probably in revenge of the suffering it endured from birth. Retard that child, use it for power alone, and you're safe.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Doubtful. Assuming the hive-mind theory, it's still Neuroi in origin, so a Neuroi mind would override the human mind in the hierarchy, allowing the Neuroi to take control.
If everything is centered on the core, know how to change the core and you have a pet Neuroi. How? Rakshata is not telling... yet.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Many NATO nations have a different standards so Captain is Standardized among them as O-2, but for the US armed forces a Captain is O-3.
So Col, LtC, Mjr ranks are OF- what?

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Acutally the speech was canon it turns out; although in an as yet unreleased source.
Yeah, gave Arf back her speech.




All said though, I am working on a new theory, and it covers how a South Liberion ancient civilization dealt with Neuroi that also hints at the neuroi's origins. Less mental stretching, and... had a bit of WALL-E in it, so I'm not quite sure what is this new idea trying to tell me. Gimme some more time.
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Old 2008-10-26, 04:26   Link #313
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
To turn all this on its ear think about it this, gender roles are learned. They're learned from many sources but your peers and the culture you're in are very big ones, and your early teens are a key time in developing many of those roles. Now consider who the peers are and what the culture would be like among the witches of that age in WWII. It would likely be a culture about violence, a definite social hierarchy, and that values physical prowess and toughness as well aggression. Now given that what sort of behavior do you think would predominate? I think you'd quickly find most of the "girls" are suddenly starting to act very much like teenage boys, and it seems quite unlikely many of them would fit into our current definitions of “girly” at all.

There would also probably be a very large disconnect from the female population at large again due to culture. The witches would likely act very different then there more normal peers, due to there experience (even excluding combat). They would likely be noticeably more assertive, belligerent, and less willing to assent to men’s wishes then average girls of there age at that time. They might well be regarded by many as rather bitchy and impudent by there elders, and intimidating by male peers. This could likewise go along way to explaining why they chose mainly to associate with each other by the looks of it, and have minimal contact with outsiders for the most part.

But this is just me showing off that I've taken sociology classes so ignore my ramblings.
Noted, filed away, and ignored as requested.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/4-BioShock"I'm sick of games that claim to have choice, but that only come down to Mother Teresa or baby eating, all I'm saying is that a little middle ground is nice now and then."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...ion/4-BioShock
KotoR 2 managed to do that, where in the first part it was just 'here, have some money' or 'rawr! I kill you!' the second part manages to blur the lines between good and evil. Yes, you can still play the holy saint or the evil overlord, but there are also tons of middle ground options that really aren't as good as they are evil. The plot also progresses to the point where even as a good guy there are times when you do 'evil' stuff and are entirely justified.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
The core is powering the system, the human is controlling the systems powered by the core, and the Liberian core itself has been altered such that it is akin to a retarded child-- It's not going to respond to hive signals. However, this comes at a price, the power output is less than a fully formed core and hence no stacking of beams from 1 panel, but firing large single shots or rapidfiring several smaller ones.
This assumes that a human mind is even able to power and control Neuroi technology at all. It's a complete alien body, and even if you are able to do what you described, having the core act like a retarded child would hardly make it more difficult for a Neuroi mind to re-take control. It's far more familiar with its own body-type then a human, so its far easier for a Neuroi to override the human mind controlling a Neuroi body.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I do believe you are missing it. 2 safeguards were in place before the Warlock was lost:

- Remote control with HQ.
- 5 Warlock to form a self-conscious network.

All points to lost of control instead of being taken over. Also, if Miyafugi's words were to be taken seriously (we all know that it was wrong to not do so), "the Warlock was different from Neuroi." It had become something more sinister. That to me looks like the Lock itself turned on the world like a spoiled brat and threw one heck of a tantrum probably in revenge of the suffering it endured from birth.Retard that child, use it for power alone, and you're safe.
Loss of control, and there you hammer the crux of the issue.

You see, the Warlock is pictured as an advanced and highly mobile fighter platform, but did you see anyone in the control room behind a joystick controlling the thing? All we saw was some guys staring at a few computer screens.

Where does this lead? Well, this means that the Warlock was flying on its own, with the control center only sending basic commands. This means that the Warlock would have had a very advanced AI that not only could target, aim and fire at enemy Neuroi, but also move and maneuver at the same time! The former 3 were far from available with technology of that era, and the later 2 are only beginning to be touched upon with todays AI technology.

So the Neuroi has an AI that is decades ahead of itself? Hardly, considering Strike Witches follows that era's technology, that would be a forward assumption, especially when we have a second option: The Warlock's core.

The Warlock's core was derived from a Neuroi, and by all accounts it looks as if that core was what was responsible for the Warlock's motions, rather then base control. The fact that the Warlock ditched base control and made choices of its prove that the base was hardly in control of this core.

In other words: The Warlock was still Neuroi in origin.

Then there is the final straw: The fact that when Warlock died, so did the hive. This blatantly shows that the Warlock was linked to the Neuroi when it went berserk. Amusing to note is that it went berserk after it turned into a Neuroi.

Conclusion: Yes, the good General lost control of the Warlock, it lost control to the Neuroi.

Now, if one were to 'dumb down' the core, so that any Neuroi probing it finds zero resistance from the cores own mind, what is stopping them from simply taking it over? It would be like having to enter a password, only to find that no matter what you'd enter, you'll always get in. What would stop them? The human mind controlling it? The Neuroi will be far more familiar with he workings of the core then the human is.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
If everything is centered on the core, know how to change the core and you have a pet Neuroi. How? Rakshata is not telling... yet.
Ah, but while Rakshata won't be telling yet, you will. Using Neuroi technology has already been shown to be a bad move by canon, if you want to use it, you need a very good explanation. You haven't even begun explaining just how they 'dumbed down' the core to begin with.
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Old 2008-10-26, 05:31   Link #314
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
This assumes that a human mind is even able to power and control Neuroi technology at all. It's a complete alien body, and even if you are able to do what you described, having the core act like a retarded child would hardly make it more difficult for a Neuroi mind to re-take control. It's far more familiar with its own body-type then a human, so its far easier for a Neuroi to override the human mind controlling a Neuroi body.
I'm looking at it biologically. An ancephalic child has no possible intelligence or conscious, and might not even survive, but those who have a developed midbrain often can survive indefinitely as long as the feeding tube remains in place. This is what I am proposing, a still-born Neuroi core.

As for control of the body, the Warlock's body was man-made, only the core was Neuroi, and possibly, from Miyafuji's words, man made as well. It won't be too hard to wire all that into controls, and I would like to point out that the SU does support post-synaptic skin-to-machine control with regards to throttle.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Loss of control, and there you hammer the crux of the issue.

You see, the Warlock is pictured as an advanced and highly mobile fighter platform, but did you see anyone in the control room behind a joystick controlling the thing? All we saw was some guys staring at a few computer screens.

Where does this lead? Well, this means that the Warlock was flying on its own, with the control center only sending basic commands. This means that the Warlock would have had a very advanced AI that not only could target, aim and fire at enemy Neuroi, but also move and maneuver at the same time! The former 3 were far from available with technology of that era, and the later 2 are only beginning to be touched upon with todays AI technology.

So the Neuroi has an AI that is decades ahead of itself? Hardly, considering Strike Witches follows that era's technology, that would be a forward assumption, especially when we have a second option: The Warlock's core.

The Warlock's core was derived from a Neuroi, and by all accounts it looks as if that core was what was responsible for the Warlock's motions, rather then base control. The fact that the Warlock ditched base control and made choices of its prove that the base was hardly in control of this core.

In other words: The Warlock was still Neuroi in origin.

Then there is the final straw: The fact that when Warlock died, so did the hive. This blatantly shows that the Warlock was linked to the Neuroi when it went berserk. Amusing to note is that it went berserk after it turned into a Neuroi.

Conclusion: Yes, the good General lost control of the Warlock, it lost control to the Neuroi.

Now, if one were to 'dumb down' the core, so that any Neuroi probing it finds zero resistance from the cores own mind, what is stopping them from simply taking it over? It would be like having to enter a password, only to find that no matter what you'd enter, you'll always get in. What would stop them? The human mind controlling it? The Neuroi will be far more familiar with he workings of the core then the human is.
I agree on all points, and so with an ancephalic core, there would be no influence exerted by the core. As I said, the core is only able to produce power, every other system has been knocked out and removed. They can send signals to the unit, but there's no receiver circuit, and the core will not respond. It's like sending radio signals to a nuclear power plant not connected to a remote signal integration system to blow up. Nothing will happen.

The only way to take over the Warlock would be to directly grab the lock and interface on contact IS infiltrate the nuclear plant and screw the coolant pump controls. By then, the Lock or weapon is meant to be jettisoned and destroyed, or the pilot killed outright from the collision.

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Ah, but while Rakshata won't be telling yet, you will. Using Neuroi technology has already been shown to be a bad move by canon, if you want to use it, you need a very good explanation. You haven't even begun explaining just how they 'dumbed down' the core to begin with.
Yes I will, but it ties in with my theories regarding the Neuroi's origins, hence why I can't mention it now.





But given all this resistance, it's rather discouraging, since I am no match for Tk's analytical mind. Choosing to save the Warlock, I knew was going to run into a tremendous headwind, but with all my RL commitments, I can't afford to spend time to make it work flawlessly. You know how conspiracy theories all die in the face of a good cynic, so it's gonna take a lot of effort, but I have no time for that.

Even my attempts to turn the Power Core trope around has only been met with non-plussed attitudes, jeers and taunts like in NanOC, frustrating myself without gain.

I couldn't sleep last night trying to work an alternative, and today has been really dreadful trying to focus on revision while my brain is just buzzing with thoughts...

As I said in the IRC, I do not share the same love for planes as everyone here. I'm here because everyone's here. My interest in SW only perked up later when I was beginning to see patterns, and the conspiracy theory enthusiast took over. But since the theory's so alienating, I might as well forget it. I give up; I cannot afford the time to make it work and it's just not what I'm here for.
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Old 2008-10-26, 07:14   Link #315
Keroko
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I'm looking at it biologically. An ancephalic child has no possible intelligence or conscious, and might not even survive, but those who have a developed midbrain often can survive indefinitely as long as the feeding tube remains in place. This is what I am proposing, a still-born Neuroi core.
The problem here is that Neuroi hardly follow regular biology. They're more mechanical, if anything.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
As for control of the body, the Warlock's body was man-made, only the core was Neuroi, and possibly, from Miyafuji's words, man made as well. It won't be too hard to wire all that into controls, and I would like to point out that the SU does support post-synaptic skin-to-machine control with regards to throttle.
I'm not arguing skin-to-machine controls, I'm arguing Witches controling Neuroi technollogy. This is an alien technollogy we're talking about, how does a Witch go about controlling it?

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I agree on all points, and so with an ancephalic core, there would be no influence exerted by the core. As I said, the core is only able to produce power, every other system has been knocked out and removed. They can send signals to the unit, but there's no receiver circuit, and the core will not respond. It's like sending radio signals to a nuclear power plant not connected to a remote signal integration system to blow up. Nothing will happen.

The only way to take over the Warlock would be to directly grab the lock and interface on contact IS infiltrate the nuclear plant and screw the coolant pump controls. By then, the Lock or weapon is meant to be jettisoned and destroyed, or the pilot killed outright from the collision.
This is throwing in a lot of assumptions on the workings of the Neuroi core, most glaringly the one that you can just 'take out' several functions and still expect it to operate. You can't just trash certain parts of an OS and expect it to function.

Second, the Akagi already showed that Neuroi can take over technollogy that isn't even Neuroi, what's to say the Neuroi can't just re-activate the dumbed down parts of the core?

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Yes I will, but it ties in with my theories regarding the Neuroi's origins, hence why I can't mention it now.

But given all this resistance, it's rather discouraging, since I am no match for Tk's analytical mind. Choosing to save the Warlock, I knew was going to run into a tremendous headwind, but with all my RL commitments, I can't afford to spend time to make it work flawlessly. You know how conspiracy theories all die in the face of a good cynic, so it's gonna take a lot of effort, but I have no time for that.

Even my attempts to turn the Power Core trope around has only been met with non-plussed attitudes, jeers and taunts like in NanOC, frustrating myself without gain.

I couldn't sleep last night trying to work an alternative, and today has been really dreadful trying to focus on revision while my brain is just buzzing with thoughts...

As I said in the IRC, I do not share the same love for planes as everyone here. I'm here because everyone's here. My interest in SW only perked up later when I was beginning to see patterns, and the conspiracy theory enthusiast took over. But since the theory's so alienating, I might as well forget it. I give up; I cannot afford the time to make it work and it's just not what I'm here for.
It's not the planes, at least not in my case. It's the setting. The setting of Strike Witches is WWII era, and even with the magic engines, the technollogy still appears WWII era. Implementing Neuroi technology is already bordering on the sci-fi, and will give many people an excuse to go full sci-fi and turn Strike Witches into a war fought with beamswords and beamguns. There's a reason why the Warlock was the bad guy, and why he was shot down.

It's like mecha's in Nanoha, it just doesn't fit into the setting.
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Old 2008-10-26, 07:32   Link #316
Kha
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But the Warlock exists, and is my favorite part of the universe! In fact, it was the only part that I found familiar; everything else, including the setting, was borderline alien!

*cries in the corner*

Revamping the ATX's gear with lessons from Liberion Red Indians, the Aztecs and Inca, the so called "mysterious tech" when it's right under their noses. Liberion's Warlock is now just a defanged (core-removed, replaced with giant magic engines and a witch pilot) scientific curiosity pressed into service since SRX couldn't bear to let it go to waste after Brit's mishap with their's.

All that's left is that I need to explain why Fran's SU has an unrecognizable paint job and form, and an unrecognizable CC weapon, which I have no fucking idea. ><
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Old 2008-10-26, 07:43   Link #317
Keroko
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Oh, that's simple, custom paint job solves the problem, you could go with a 'matches my uniform' explanation, and just pick an aircraft it resembles as its origin, and the close combat weapon is a Bardiche, and if Fuso witches can use their home weapons, why can't a half-romangan witch use a medieval European weapon?
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Old 2008-10-26, 08:00   Link #318
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Oh, that's simple, custom paint job solves the problem, you could go with a 'matches my uniform' explanation, and just pick an aircraft it resembles as its origin, and the close combat weapon is a Bardiche, and if Fuso witches can use their home weapons, why can't a half-romangan witch use a medieval European weapon?
Not saying they can't, but a bardiche isn't exactly a convenient weapon to lug around. Nor were bardiches or other medieval European weapons issued to any troops in WW2 for actual use as far as I know... Japan on the other hand did issue their troops with swords. Most other armies issued utility knives, shovels, or bayonets afaik (Beurling has a khukuri, Perrine supposedly has a rapier, Charlotte has a knife, but other than that, no melee weapons on non-Fuso witches that I can recall).
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Old 2008-10-26, 08:08   Link #319
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K going custom paint, but that unit is... Japanese is it?

Na not using Bardiche. But still, from that picture... Battle axe? Is there such a thing?
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Old 2008-10-26, 08:33   Link #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
K going custom paint, but that unit is... Japanese is it?

Na not using Bardiche. But still, from that picture... Battle axe? Is there such a thing?
Slightly impractical, but a lot better than using an actual bardiche, which weighs something fearsome to a smaller hand-held axe.
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