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Old 2008-11-20, 05:57   Link #201
Neku
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Originally Posted by Sander RX View Post
And Shinn.He proved to a tough nut for Kira more then once.
And do dead people count?If so,Rau is given.
Really?
..and I thought here we are, removing all plot devices, talking about an equal fight, where they're both equal in Strike Freedom and Destiny, without the stupid no-kill policy.

Rau definitely counts. Kira just got lucky back there.. that's imo anyway.
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Old 2008-11-20, 08:47   Link #202
Sander RX
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Really?
..and I thought here we are, removing all plot devices, talking about an equal fight, where they're both equal in Strike Freedom and Destiny, without the stupid no-kill policy.
Only time Shinn was affected by plot-devices against Kira was when he was standing there and acting like a moron at Dardanelless.
And I didnt mean defeat Kira,I meant not to get easily defeated by Kira.Everytime he is in SEED-mode Kira isnt having an easy time dealing with him...
And yes Rau was great...too bad they didnt make a good replacement for him.Well a replacement that doesnt loose all his fighting potential when he hears some enemy words and turns on the one regards as his father,because he listened to that said enemy words.
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Old 2008-11-21, 09:59   Link #203
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I didn't mean defeat Kira either.
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Old 2008-11-23, 08:00   Link #204
Sander RX
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Once again on GOUF Ignited vs Murasame...during the battle of Orb we some shots of GOUFs defeating Murasames...within stock footage.While its quite opposite in final battle where we see TSA-s Murasames raping GOUFs for the most part.
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Old 2008-11-24, 05:34   Link #205
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Originally Posted by Sander RX View Post
Once again on GOUF Ignited vs Murasame...during the battle of Orb we some shots of GOUFs defeating Murasames...within stock footage.While its quite opposite in final battle where we see TSA-s Murasames raping GOUFs for the most part.
So true. Sadly, the main supporter of the GOUF apparently did not see that scene..
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Old 2008-11-24, 20:33   Link #206
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sander RX
Once again on GOUF Ignited vs Murasame...during the battle of Orb we some shots of GOUFs defeating Murasames...within stock footage.While its quite opposite in final battle where we see TSA-s Murasames raping GOUFs for the most part.
So true. Sadly, the main supporter of the GOUF apparently did not see that scene..
Except that really doesn't support your arguement either. All it shows is that somestimes GOUFs win sometime Murasames win. The re-use of stock footage in DESTINY doesn't really help this at all.
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Old 2008-11-25, 07:24   Link #207
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I think we've finally moved a step forward: Grunts don't determine the victory of a battle. Pilots with names do.
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Old 2008-11-25, 08:14   Link #208
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I think we've finally moved a step forward: Grunts don't determine the victory of a battle. Pilots with names do.
Who can't agree. However, to be realistic, pilots with names without any grunts supporting them cannot determine the victory of a battle as well.
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Old 2008-11-25, 14:06   Link #209
Sander RX
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However, to be realistic, pilots with names without any grunts supporting them cannot determine the victory of a battle as well.
We are discussing something from Gundam SEED Destiny.
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Old 2008-11-25, 14:30   Link #210
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I think we've finally moved a step forward: Grunts don't determine the victory of a battle. Pilots with names do.
In the case of the Second Battle of Orb, it wasn't really the named pilots who made the biggest difference - it was mostly Archangel and other elements.

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We are discussing something from Gundam SEED Destiny.
Since line mobile suits, and more importantly, warships are constantly seen to be supporting the named characters, how is your point relevant?
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Old 2008-11-26, 02:54   Link #211
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We are discussing something from Gundam SEED Destiny.
Doesn't matter, grunts are still shown to play a big part there.

Even the Freedom had trouble with the massive amount of grunts in Operation Angel Down, Kira could not handle them alone.

Shinn's arrival was really just to emphasize the point.
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Old 2009-06-06, 05:30   Link #212
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Doesn't matter, grunts are still shown to play a big part there.

Even the Freedom had trouble with the massive amount of grunts in Operation Angel Down, Kira could not handle them alone.

Shinn's arrival was really just to emphasize the point.
I think the problem with Operation Angel down wasn't the numbers but was that Archangel and Kira weren't killing the grunts and therefore had a harder time. Archangel weapon crews were not allowed to make direct hits and to like shoot the snow and the area around the enemy mobile suits just to make the mobile suits trip and fall down, only to come back later.
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Old 2009-06-06, 22:50   Link #213
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I think the problem with Operation Angel down wasn't the numbers but was that Archangel and Kira weren't killing the grunts and therefore had a harder time. Archangel weapon crews were not allowed to make direct hits and to like shoot the snow and the area around the enemy mobile suits just to make the mobile suits trip and fall down, only to come back later.
Kira was disabling them fine. It's just that there were so many of em and the terrain made it hard for Kira to keep on going. The Archangel was never gonna be much help in such a terrain anyway. Prolly, it's not that they were not allowed to make direct hits, it would be much easier, if they just shot the glaciers, etc, etc, as battleship cannons are not that accurate, really.
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Old 2009-06-07, 01:02   Link #214
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Had AA launched all Murasame's in addition to Freedom and starting firing their positron guns they could have easily taken out the Zaft force and been gone long before Minerva and Shinn showed up. And even if that failed the Murasame's attacking Shinn would have given Kira an opening to either get a hit in or get away. The reason Kira lost was because Shinn kept relentlessly assaulting him and paying careful attention to where Kira was aiming. Granted Shinn can take out Murasame's easily but every Murasame he blows up is a second he has his back turned on Kira.
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Old 2009-06-09, 04:06   Link #215
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Had AA launched all Murasame's in addition to Freedom and starting firing their positron guns they could have easily taken out the Zaft force and been gone long before Minerva and Shinn showed up. And even if that failed the Murasame's attacking Shinn would have given Kira an opening to either get a hit in or get away. The reason Kira lost was because Shinn kept relentlessly assaulting him and paying careful attention to where Kira was aiming. Granted Shinn can take out Murasame's easily but every Murasame he blows up is a second he has his back turned on Kira.
Positron is too deadly, and takes too long to charge. Plus, if I am not mistaken, the AA were low on energy at the time, so they could not anyway.

And there was a solid reason why they did not launch the Murasames, Kira wanted to conserve them to use on ORB. And in the end, they were helpful, if only a little bit.
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Old 2009-06-11, 01:11   Link #216
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Actually Kira didn't want to use the Murasame's because he didn't want anymore bad blood between ORB and ZAFT(which was pointless because they wound up fighting again anyway). Likewise he told AA not to make direct attacks because he didn't want footage of them that Durandal could use to make them look worse(but Durandal managed to make them look bad anyway). AA never runs out of energy and the positrons being too deadly is irrelevant as the point I'm making is for them just going "screw it" and slaughtering all Zaft in their way.

They had legitimate reasons for going easy but it was all in vain as it wound up with them barely making it back to Orb with a damaged ship and no Freedom forcing them to lie low and watch as Yuna made yet another stupid decision that caused problems for them. On the other hand if they had killed all the Zaft in Operation Angel Down and gotten away from Minerva with a full powered AA and Freedom intact they could have made a move to put Cagalli back into power immediately and possibly been able to refuse Djibril from ever getting there and stopping the later battle.
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