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Old 2008-12-09, 00:36   Link #101
aoi2dags
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Ryuuji == another in the long line of wimps who get girls in cartoons (but never in real life). If I knew someone like that in actuality, I'd be ashamed to be in the same room. Do guys in Japan really let women hit them like that in Japan? Aren't these the men that were Samurai only 150 years ago???

What Taiga needs is someone like Chiaki in Nodame. A quick trip into a telephone pole would improve her attitude 1000%. I thought that Ryuuji would be a tougher male lead and not just a Keitarou clone with a mean look....disappointing.
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Old 2008-12-09, 00:46   Link #102
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At least he has a personality, and unique quirks.

Sure he's a wuss, but he's a COOL wuss.
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Old 2008-12-09, 00:58   Link #103
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Originally Posted by aoi2dags View Post
Ryuuji == another in the long line of wimps who get girls in cartoons (but never in real life). If I knew someone like that in actuality, I'd be ashamed to be in the same room. Do guys in Japan really let women hit them like that in Japan? Aren't these the men that were Samurai only 150 years ago???

What Taiga needs is someone like Chiaki in Nodame. A quick trip into a telephone pole would improve her attitude 1000%. I thought that Ryuuji would be a tougher male lead and not just a Keitarou clone with a mean look....disappointing.
You must be new here

I'm not clear how he's a "wuss" .... more like someone intrigued by a challenge since he's obsessed with cleaning things up. I'll also direct you to the "Three Stooges" for lessons in slapstick, but slapstick has been exceptionally rare in this series compared with Love Hina.

Exactly how would getting the tar knocked out of Taiga "improve her attitude"? She's in the condition she's in to some extent because people/parents have mistreated her. She's psychologically really quite brittle and easily breakable.

It might be useful to browse the threads here on the series - perhaps that will clear things up a bit.
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Old 2008-12-09, 03:33   Link #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aoi2dags View Post
Ryuuji == another in the long line of wimps who get girls in cartoons (but never in real life). If I knew someone like that in actuality, I'd be ashamed to be in the same room. Do guys in Japan really let women hit them like that in Japan? Aren't these the men that were Samurai only 150 years ago???

What Taiga needs is someone like Chiaki in Nodame. A quick trip into a telephone pole would improve her attitude 1000%. I thought that Ryuuji would be a tougher male lead and not just a Keitarou clone with a mean look....disappointing.
Not at all. Ryuuji is nowhere near the fail of Keitaro, Kouta or Rito. He's more along the lines of a Kyon. Someone who's deep and interesting who deals with all of problems around him at a relaxed pace. He does have a few quirks with his love his odd-parrot and how he transform when it comes to cleaning, but he is hardly a wimp. He is however under of the control of Taiga because he's too nice and he does want to help her out while getting close to Minori at the same time. (He speaks back to Taiga rather than begs for forgiveness)

Taiga is kind of delicate though since if she gets defeated mentally or physically, she can't handle it well. The key with looking at this relationship is that they need each other. Just maybe not in a conventional sense...
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Old 2008-12-09, 05:45   Link #105
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Aye, that's something not pointed out enough... Taiga is actually quite fragile - her bluster easily punctured by someone (like Ami) who knows where to push.

Kyon and Yuichi both come to mind as the sort Ryuuji can be sorted with, basically a lot of common sense and fairly sharp wit.
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Old 2008-12-09, 21:43   Link #106
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The more mature one from the very beginning... Is that what you wish to say?

Well, I can't find myself disagreeing. He cooks... He cleans... He even wash her mother's laundry... What else can you expect from a man... wait!!! Correction, a boy... like that?
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Old 2008-12-09, 23:44   Link #107
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Originally Posted by Nukerjsr View Post
Not at all. Ryuuji is nowhere near the fail of Keitaro, Kouta or Rito. He's more along the lines of a Kyon. Someone who's deep and interesting who deals with all of problems around him at a relaxed pace. He does have a few quirks with his love his odd-parrot and how he transform when it comes to cleaning, but he is hardly a wimp. He is however under of the control of Taiga because he's too nice and he does want to help her out while getting close to Minori at the same time. (He speaks back to Taiga rather than begs for forgiveness)

Taiga is kind of delicate though since if she gets defeated mentally or physically, she can't handle it well. The key with looking at this relationship is that they need each other. Just maybe not in a conventional sense...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Aye, that's something not pointed out enough... Taiga is actually quite fragile - her bluster easily punctured by someone (like Ami) who knows where to push.

Kyon and Yuichi both come to mind as the sort Ryuuji can be sorted with, basically a lot of common sense and fairly sharp wit.

Yeah.....my dad used to say that all the time when he beat my mum up...."I just don't handle it well if I'm criticized...." it was a BS excuse when he used it and it's BS now. LOL....people who hit others are "fragile"? That's a good one....I guess prisons must be full of sensitive guys.
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Old 2008-12-09, 23:50   Link #108
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Okay.. you're either a twit or just trolling if you're comparing an imaginary 85 pound little girl in a slapstick comedy to a misogynistic adult male in real life. Want to try making more sense? At the least I'd say that you might want to avoid slapstick comedy and much of anime if you can't discern the difference from "real life". Taiga doesn't even resort to violence that often compared to many other animated "angry female" characters. The animated violence is metaphorical for their frustration and anger.
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Old 2008-12-10, 00:14   Link #109
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Slapstick hasn't been that prevalent in American works for a while, probably due to increased cultural awareness of violence in the home.

Of course people are going to take it more seriously than they should.
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Old 2008-12-10, 00:22   Link #110
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His brain may explode if he ever encounters a "Three Stooges" festival or watches an american cartoon.

Saturday Night Live still does live slapstick and pratfalls..... but the Simpsons, Family Guy, Futurama, and other animations all do slapstick.

... none of which has anything to do with Ryuuji. I just view Taiga's small number of physical shenanigans on Ryuujij as the hyperbolic equivalent of my 95 pound wife thumping me or punching me in the arm.
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Old 2008-12-10, 01:39   Link #111
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
His brain may explode if he ever encounters a "Three Stooges" festival or watches an american cartoon.

Saturday Night Live still does live slapstick and pratfalls..... but the Simpsons, Family Guy, Futurama, and other animations all do slapstick.

... none of which has anything to do with Ryuuji. I just view Taiga's small number of physical shenanigans on Ryuujij as the hyperbolic equivalent of my 95 pound wife thumping me or punching me in the arm.
If it's wrong for men to hit women under any circumstance, then it's also wrong for women. If not, fine...then let's start having male characters defend themselves. That's all I want to see.

BTW anime violence is, by and large, systematic...not slapstick. It's all in one direction. The only example I can think of where it goes both ways is Nodame Cantabile, and it works amazingly well, it comes across as slapstick. It most series (like TD or Love Hina), the systematic concentration of violence in one direction only makes me upset....I constantly ask myself why no one does anything. It's odd, considering the socially didactic character of Japanese entertainment, that in this one case they don't promote the "right thing to do".

And finally, sure I'm trolling...I just love to argue and play devil's advocate. Doesn't mean that I'm not serious in my arguments or not having fun!
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Old 2008-12-10, 02:01   Link #112
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You picked an odd series to jump on then.... this series has far less "comedic violence" than many many others out there. Yeah, it'd be great if they'd have dropped it completely (because the physical violence doesn't exist in the novels outside of her one-time uncoordinated wooden sword attack) but in general - japanese anime seems to live in an "american 1950s/1960s" sort of comedic sensibility.

In real life, Japan has yet to really have the discussion of sexual equality that European and American societies have been having since the 1960s. They're *starting* though...
In the mean time, comedic representations of women thrashing men represent something completely absurd and fantastic versus real life.

In most series, the thrashing is so absurd (knocking someone into the sky or impossible flying kicks) that it is more metaphorical than real; somewhat like the hyperdeformation and surreal facial expressions and sweatdrops/nosebleeds are metaphorical.
It does get a bit old and I wish they'd grow out of it -- some series come pretty close (Honey&Clover, Hataraki Man, Lov*Com) but they all have instances of comedic or violent fantasy simply because its a animated visual expression of an emotion. Their version of an ACME anvil.

From Ryuuji's point of view (just to keep this on topic) - Taiga is someone who needs his help like a battered puppy that bites because it can't tell when a hand is approaching to pet or to strike. The series is about people learning to be their true selves and growing out of the defensive shields they've constructed (e.g. Taiga's verbal/physical violence, Ami's maze of personalities, Minorin's wacky shield, etc).
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Old 2008-12-10, 03:02   Link #113
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Originally Posted by Vx View Post
but they all have instances of comedic or violent fantasy simply because its a animated visual expression of an emotion. Their version of an ACME anvil.
lol, that is TOO funny . What a way to generalize all of japanese anime physical comedy with a random prop from an old American cartoon . Sorry, I not making fun of you, I just think that's hilarious .
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Old 2008-12-10, 04:05   Link #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aoi2dags View Post
Ryuuji == another in the long line of wimps who get girls in cartoons (but never in real life). If I knew someone like that in actuality, I'd be ashamed to be in the same room. Do guys in Japan really let women hit them like that in Japan? Aren't these the men that were Samurai only 150 years ago???

What Taiga needs is someone like Chiaki in Nodame. A quick trip into a telephone pole would improve her attitude 1000%. I thought that Ryuuji would be a tougher male lead and not just a Keitarou clone with a mean look....disappointing.
First of all, Ryuuji isnt a wimp at all, he is one of the most well-rounded leading males that came out in a long time. Sure, he is always be treated like a dog and kick around but unlike the other lead male characters, he does stand up against her and still helps her. Now I know that you are asking "Why" because Taiga has a very rough life already (with parents seems like they dont care about her too much, everybody doesnt want to be around her because of her personality and other stuff). If Ryuuji wasn't there to be that protective shield physicality and mentality for her, she will never had the courage to open herself up and did the things that she will never do, plus she will be lonely for rest of the time in High School and will have regrets in the future that she didnt muster up the courage to do those things.

Ryuuji has been Taiga's saving grace right now and she is more comfortable and willing to do anything as long he around(like trying to cook, or even swimming even know that she cant swim) but then a big problem will begin. If you get too comfortable with something or even somebody then it will be harder to let it go even that time comes. It is already showing up right at end of eps 10, when Taiga was getting really sad that Ryuugi and Minorin was together. That is going to be the theme now.

Sorry about the long rant but here is my point, if my g/f has problem, stress at work or things aint going her way. Would I let her hit on me, Sure because as her partner I am there to be that protective barrier, if things are wrong, she can hit on me and vent to me because i dont want to crumble under that pressure(Vexx and other people that is married, a serious relationship or even friendship) can understand that and Ryuugi is doing the same thing for Taiga.
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Old 2008-12-10, 08:58   Link #115
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Neki Ecko. the problem is taht Ryuuji doenst really let her... well or more it doesnt matter if he let or not. His opinion doesnt amtter, his talks back are ignored because Taiga will just do what she wants to do and Ryuuji has no saying in that - he can complain and will still do it. he may be willing to do that, but the fact that he would do it even if he were not willing decreasing such acts value quite a bit.
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Old 2008-12-10, 20:56   Link #116
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I'd say take a look at episode 11 in regard to Ryuuji.
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Old 2008-12-11, 05:50   Link #117
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And I'd say look at episodes 1-10. One episode doesnt make it better. Shinji (from NGE) also had his own moments but one a whole he was still a coward. Ryuuji is still a doormat as well.
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Old 2008-12-11, 07:02   Link #118
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And I'd say look at episodes 1-10. One episode doesnt make it better. Shinji (from NGE) also had his own moments but one a whole he was still a coward. Ryuuji is still a doormat as well.
What's the similarity between Shinji and Ryuuji? I don't understand.
What I know is Shinji is the really useless, but Ryuuji is way way way more reliable so can you tell me why you relate him to Shinji?

Well I can't say Ryuuji's a doormat. He did promise Taiga that he will be a Dragon to stay with her. So he always try to understand her even though he complains.
Well since you're a Znt fan, I can say he's more of a Saito than Shinji without the Gandalf powers.
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Old 2008-12-11, 08:24   Link #119
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Saito actually can have fights with Louise and not on one occasion. Ryuuji just seem to not have an ego that put Taiga's ego under pressure thus create such possibility. You can push him around , he will complain but he will do it, you can push Saito around he will complain and he will not do it. Thats the basic difference. Saito actually has the ego to stand up against Louise, though Louise, is more suppressive than Taiga, while Ryuuji has not.

I think this difference is generated by not having an ego. Thats why you can push Ryuuji around and clean your feet on his head - he won't complain. The only chances that he mights stood up is when the situation involves someone else but him.

Saito on the other hand, has a rather big ego, which allows him to stand his ground against Louise, disobey her or even start fights with her. On the other hand Ryuuji has more brains than Saito will ever do. The problem is that he doesn't have an ego.

As comparing Shinji with Ryuuji... Do you think Shinji was really that useless? Who cleaned and cooked in Misato's apartment again? Hint - not Asuka, not Misato and not Pen-pen.

He did what Ryuuji is doing with Taiga and his mother. Shinji looked over them both as well. Shinji too complained, like Ryuuji did, but Asuka and Misato always ignored that (though Misato did that more fashionably, while Asuka juts plainly forced him, like Taiga does). Shinji did like doing those chores like Ryuuji as well.

I see both Shinji and Ryuuji as instances of lacking an ego, which allows them to live on rather good terms with girls who would normally considered to be bitches, simply because they do not make a presence to their big egos to create an friction.

It's just that Shinji was more shy than Ryuuji is, and his whole situation was more surpressing than the one of Ryuuji.

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Old 2008-12-11, 09:37   Link #120
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Saito actually can have fights with Louise and not on one occasion. Ryuuji just seem to not have an ego that put Taiga's ego under pressure thus create such possibility. You can push him around , he will complain but he will do it, you can push Saito around he will complain and he will not do it. Thats the basic difference. Saito actually has the ego to stand up against Louise, though Louise, is more suppressive than Taiga, while Ryuuji has not.

I think this difference is generated by not having an ego. Thats why you can push Ryuuji around and clean your feet on his head - he won't complain. The only chances that he mights stood up is when the situation involves someone else but him.

Saito on the other hand, has a rather big ego, which allows him to stand his ground against Louise, disobey her or even start fights with her. On the other hand Ryuuji has more brains than Saito will ever do. The problem is that he doesn't have an ego.

As comparing Shinji with Ryuuji... Do you think Shinji was really that useless? Who cleaned and cooked in Misato's apartment again? Hint - not Asuka, not Misato and not Pen-pen.

He did what Ryuuji is doing with Taiga and his mother. Shinji looked over them both as well. Shinji too complained, like Ryuuji did, but Asuka and Misato always ignored that (though Misato did that more fashionably, while Asuka juts plainly forced him, like Taiga does). Shinji did like doing those chores like Ryuuji as well.

I see both Shinji and Ryuuji as instances of lacking an ego, which allows them to live on rather good terms with girls who would normally considered to be bitches, simply because they do not make a presence to their big egos to create an friction.

It's just that Shinji was more shy than Ryuuji is, and his whole situation was more surpressing than the one of Ryuuji.
Sounds like you actually pity Ryuuji. But you can't hope for him to self-destruct like Shinji. And I think Ryuuji is doing these things like others already said:
1.Because he's always misunderstood as delinquent so he wants to live in values.
2. He wants to have a good relationship with Taiga because she's helpless and she's Minori's best friend.

From your stand point, I suppose you really like characters with big egos.
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