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Old 2008-11-06, 00:55   Link #41
getfresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
As far as I can tell it is used in two (2) instances on the entire site, namely in the descriptions for two typefaces, Beorcana and ITC Syndor. The site does not use it as a classification and a google search for "serifless" gives around 3100 hits (this thread being #6, and the official description PDF for Beorcana being #4) compared to several hundred thousand for "grotesque font" or "grotesk font".

edit: oh wait I just found some history pdf on fonts.com that mentions it as well, but my point (that is is a quite unusual term) still stands
It is, I agree. I was mostly using it to stress the fact of what fonts like arial look like in comparison to most Sans fonts.
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Old 2008-11-06, 08:02   Link #42
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Serif is just noted by the decorative characteristics of the glyphs (the more well-known ones are Times and Grotesque typefaces). I also consider fonts like CT Mercurius and Maiandra GD both Serif's, as they possess some decorative properties at glyphs such as "I" and "T", and yet they are not as decorative as Times or Grotesque fonts.

And, all handwriting fonts (i.e. Dom Casual, Mead, etc) are considered to be Serif-less, because when you write, you don't make decorations at the end strokes (such as the "T" in Times New Roman), but they are not Sans-Serif either because they are not regular typefaces either. Fonts like Old English are considered to be Serif too, well, one gets the idea anyways.
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Old 2008-11-06, 08:40   Link #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pichu View Post
Serif is just noted by the decorative characteristics of the glyphs (the more well-known ones are Times and Grotesque typefaces). I also consider fonts like CT Mercurius and Maiandra GD both Serif's, as they possess some decorative properties at glyphs such as "I" and "T", and yet they are not as decorative as Times or Grotesque fonts.

And, all handwriting fonts (i.e. Dom Casual, Mead, etc) are considered to be Serif-less, because when you write, you don't make decorations at the end strokes (such as the "T" in Times New Roman), but they are not Sans-Serif either because they are not regular typefaces either. Fonts like Old English are considered to be Serif too, well, one gets the idea anyways.
basicly, Sticking to 2 groupings just doesn't work anymore. The way I generally divide fonts up is not so much by family anymore, but by use/application. I have certain fonts I use for onscreens, titles, and credits. Different ones for karaoke, another set for dialogue, and a final set that is just one big cluster fuck. In my personal style I tend to use hand, script, and brush fonts for karaoke, with a few very plain, boring, arial-ish fonts I keep around for English lyric translation when I feel they suit my purpose.

One font I am rather fond of using for English lyric translations where the karaoke is an insert or the anime is sci-fi/serious in nature, is NewsGot. I've found it to work well at small sizes and without borders. Also it is fairly condensed without feeling overly condensed. Condensed fonts come in very handy on karaokes quite often since you have onscreen Japanese credits becoming an issue at times, especially when they are scrolling up one side.

Last edited by getfresh; 2008-11-06 at 08:55.
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Old 2008-11-06, 09:14   Link #44
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For that reason, I'm fond of using Japanese/Chinese typefaces: Gothic (equivalent to Sans), Marugothic (equivalent to Round Sans), Mincho (equivalent to Serif), Kaisho (equivalent to Serif or none [i.e. brush strokes]), and Reisho (none).
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Old 2008-11-06, 09:17   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pichu View Post
For that reason, I'm fond of using Japanese/Chinese typefaces: Gothic (equivalent to Sans), Marugothic (equivalent to Round Sans), Mincho (equivalent to Serif), Kaisho (equivalent to Serif or none [i.e. brush strokes]), and Reisho (none).
I like quite a few of them as well. The only issue with a lot of the really cool looking ones is when they are monospaced... I really hate that.
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Old 2008-11-06, 09:20   Link #46
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I like quite a few of them as well. The only issue with a lot of the really cool looking ones is when they are monospaced... I really hate that.
\fsp or characters spacing. (like instead of pichu, try {\fsp-5}pi{\fsp}chu) And most TTCs have proportional spacing. If I really need to use them for longer subs, I just edit the fonts anyways.
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Old 2008-11-06, 09:34   Link #47
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Originally Posted by pichu View Post
\fsp or characters spacing. (like instead of pichu, try {\fsp-5}pi{\fsp}chu) And most TTCs have proportional spacing. If I really need to use them for longer subs, I just edit the fonts anyways.
heh, most I run into don't work that hot using \fsp. If it is credits, or scene/location onscreens, yeah sure I'll sit there and \fsp into looking right. But not for dialogue. Heres a recent example of one of those monospaced fonts that just did not want to be friendly...

G{\fsp-2.7}e{\fsp-4}n{\fsp-1.3}e{\fsp-2.7}on{\fsp-5.3} {\fsp-2.7}E{\fsp-4}n{\fsp-6.7}t{\fsp-4}ert{\fsp-6.7}a{\fsp-8}i{\fsp-2.7}n{\fsp0}m{\fsp-2.7}e{\fsp-4}nt

Pretty much the whole credits file looks like this.
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Old 2008-11-06, 09:48   Link #48
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Heh I'm too lazy to play around with \fsp floats just to look good, so I just adjust chars with i, l, and I with \fsp or whatever. Plus that, if that's the case, it will be a lot faster to import that font into Fontlab 4.6, and edit from there. (4.6 is one of the older versions that can read Kanji and TTC fonts unlike the newer versions since they are forcing people to use their other products heh)
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Old 2008-11-06, 10:18   Link #49
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Originally Posted by pichu View Post
Heh I'm too lazy to play around with \fsp floats just to look good, so I just adjust chars with i, l, and I with \fsp or whatever. Plus that, if that's the case, it will be a lot faster to import that font into Fontlab 4.6, and edit from there. (4.6 is one of the older versions that can read Kanji and TTC fonts unlike the newer versions since they are forcing people to use their other products heh)
yeah, but it's even easier to just use a normal font for dialogue. There are plenty. My days of search a drive of fonts for that "one" are over. I don't care that much anymore. not to say I just slap anything on, just that it isn't high on my priority list anymore to find some insane font for a 0.5sec onscreen.
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Old 2008-11-06, 11:41   Link #50
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Originally Posted by pichu View Post
Heh I'm too lazy to play around with \fsp floats just to look good, so I just adjust chars with i, l, and I with \fsp or whatever. Plus that, if that's the case, it will be a lot faster to import that font into Fontlab 4.6, and edit from there. (4.6 is one of the older versions that can read Kanji and TTC fonts unlike the newer versions since they are forcing people to use their other products heh)
w0t? I have fontlab studio 5 and that doesnt want to export when i have more than.. ehmm.. a lot of glyphs (instead they want me to use asiafont). No limit on amount of characters in fontlab 4.6?
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Old 2008-11-06, 11:50   Link #51
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Originally Posted by dj_tjerk View Post
w0t? I have fontlab studio 5 and that doesnt want to export when i have more than.. ehmm.. a lot of glyphs (instead they want me to use asiafont). No limit on amount of characters in fontlab 4.6?
6400 glyphs, but 5.x doesn't allow you to import TTC (True Type Compilations) fonts unless you break them apart into TTF.

Quote:
yeah, but it's even easier to just use a normal font for dialogue. There are plenty. My days of search a drive of fonts for that "one" are over. I don't care that much anymore. not to say I just slap anything on, just that it isn't high on my priority list anymore to find some insane font for a 0.5sec onscreen.
Indeed, nowadays when I typeset, I don't really care about matching the typefaces anymore, but I look at the characters (Japanese Kanji) and then decide immediately which font will match them (matched thicknesses [i hate more about unequal thicknesses than sizes: most typesetters failed to realize this basic] + similar style) -- I only have memory of about 500 JP fonts (around 50-100 different styles), which I tend to choose from my stash.
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Old 2008-11-06, 12:04   Link #52
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Originally Posted by pichu View Post
Indeed, nowadays when I typeset, I don't really care about matching the typefaces anymore, but I look at the characters (Japanese Kanji) and then decide immediately which font will match them (matched thicknesses [i hate more about unequal thicknesses than sizes: most typesetters failed to realize this basic] + similar style) -- I only have memory of about 500 JP fonts (around 50-100 different styles), which I tend to choose from my stash.
aye. I focus on matching the scale/width + colors and fades more now than anything. The only ppl who can really tell if the font is a perfect match or not are a limit group of typesetters anyways. The vast majority of leechers don't really know one way or another if you have the right one as I have seen from the many inspired comments/feedbacks that I have read over the years. Pretty much most viewers decide a group sucks before even watching a release, and look at the release with the intention of posting about everything they "found" wrong with it.

Always made me kinda of curious as to how many experts there are on review/feed back pages, and how many people actually have they ability to produce work that shines with excellence in fansubbing.

That is one of the main reason I just don't have the motivation to waste an extra hr finding that font. The people who could actually appreciate it appreciate proper coloring, placement, scale, timing, etc... far more than a font that has that ONE extra character that the more common, and easier to find font does not.
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Old 2008-11-06, 12:16   Link #53
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Originally Posted by getfresh View Post
aye. I focus on matching the scale/width + colors and fades more now than anything. The only ppl who can really tell if the font is a perfect match or not are a limit group of typesetters anyways. The vast majority of leechers don't really know one way or another if you have the right one as I have seen from the many inspired comments/feedbacks that I have read over the years. Pretty much most viewers decide a group sucks before even watching a release, and look at the release with the intention of posting about everything they "found" wrong with it.

Always made me kinda of curious as to how many experts there are on review/feed back pages, and how many people actually have they ability to produce work that shines with excellence in fansubbing.

That is one of the main reason I just don't have the motivation to waste an extra hr finding that font. The people who could actually appreciate it appreciate proper coloring, placement, scale, timing, etc... far more than a font that has that ONE extra character that the more common, and easier to find font does not.
Actually, a note about colors: Colors are actually very hard to match to the point to be precise everywhere. The colors I tend to lean towards do involve translucent (both in AFX and .ass), and they aren't that easy -- took some time before I got pretty fast with it (set opacity of 50%, tune the HSL and match the color quickly). So why going through translucent when the colors are indeed opaque? The reason is that the video often contains noise, and that by using translucent on solid backgrounds, you can bring in the video noise into your text. That's a cheap way of doing it. And, when there are shadows casting over the area you typeset, you can just use translucent text to avoid masking/clipping the shadows since the shadows will darken the translucent text. In AFX, I tend to add in grains, glows, fractal noise to complete that process.

The fonts searching I would do is if the typesetting repeats everywhere, such as credits, logo, and episode titles. Then they do need very, very close matches. Credits sometimes have English letters, and you do not wish for your text to be way off from the English lettering; I will find it weird when that happens. Of course, this is on top of color, opacity, grains, blurs, weights, etc matches.
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Old 2008-11-06, 12:30   Link #54
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ok enough quoting each other, I think everyone knows we are having a private convo at this point.

Anyways, yeah, I do the same. I alpha my onscreens a bit to pick up nearby colors since the Kanji onscreen always has been a bit stained by the colors around it. I really hate when it gets the red/green washout yet the onscreen is on a bluish background.
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Old 2008-11-07, 01:23   Link #55
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So FontLab 4.6 supports fonts > 6400 glyphs? I wanted to change yen from PGothic just because it was pissing me off but cant save > 6400 glyphs ;___;

edit untrue! i just installed fontlab 4.6, tried to edit ms ui gothic (20000 glyphs) and it exploded

Last edited by fireshark; 2008-11-07 at 03:04.
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Old 2008-11-07, 06:59   Link #56
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No.. it allows TTC editing (as pichu said.. ), so you'd still need AsiaFont..
poke me if you find it somewhere
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Old 2008-11-07, 07:56   Link #57
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Originally Posted by fireshark View Post
So FontLab 4.6 supports fonts > 6400 glyphs? I wanted to change yen from PGothic just because it was pissing me off but cant save > 6400 glyphs ;___;

edit untrue! i just installed fontlab 4.6, tried to edit ms ui gothic (20000 glyphs) and it exploded
Umm...
  1. If you deleted all the unwanted characters (and keep the total number of glyphs under 6400), then you can still save it.
  2. Why would you want to edit that font? There are literally like thousands of Japanese fonts just like that. (Gothic typefaces) Pick the one you like. Or, do you mean '\' ==> '' like most JP fonts?
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Old 2008-11-12, 13:25   Link #58
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I sincerely hope Kristen reads this thread
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Old 2008-11-14, 18:19   Link #59
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I sincerely hope Kristen reads this thread
Who?

Anyways, I was watching a few subs recently since I'm sick and useless... Not that I'm useful when I'm not sick, but anyways. As I was saying, I have been watching diff subs recently and noticed some very bad trends in styling. One, people are setting their sub too close to the bottom of the screen. I know the whole thing about "omg I don't wanna cover up the animation", but in reality no matter what you are going to do this. It is better to place the subs high enough so that ppl are looking down then up, then down, then up over and over. They should be placed so that they do not get in the way of most things of course but also so that your eyes are near the action to start with. Another thing I've seen is really poor color selecting. Please, learn wth contrast is people. Also don't use confusing looking fonts. Just because the font is curvy or whatever does not make it a good choice. If you pick a font where the characters all look too similar it makes it much harder to read. As a styler you should WATCH YOU DAMN WORK IN REAL TIME, objectively. This means without thinking things like "omfg my font is so original!" Being original is fine, even good sometimes, but it is NOT needed.

My last pet pev of recent, one show I watched had color by character. This is extremely EXTREMELY annoying and distracting to watch. Don't do it. Two diff groups subbing it both did this. Watching the show is much less entertaining due to it.
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Old 2008-11-14, 18:43   Link #60
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Who?
Kristen = leader of Chihiro.

... which jaka WAS part of from what I get of the stupid fansubbing politics
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