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Old 2008-11-05, 01:31   Link #1
einhorn303
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: United States of America
Statistical rise of lolicon popularity outside Japan

One way to compare the popularity of lolicon inside and outside Japan is to look at Google search trends for the Japanese spelling (ロリコン) and the English/Spanish spelling (lolicon).

http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?i...parisoneb1.png

Although Japanese searching seems to have dropped by almost half, searching outside Japan has risen dramatically over just 3 years, even surpassing Japan. This interest isn't just centered in America...it's led by Latin American countries, such as Mexico, Chile, and Peru.

Sankaku Complex also looked at something similar, comparing Google search trends for "loli" and "ロリ" since 2001. Both rose, but they've become almost equal (13,600,000 to 13,300,000).

(Warning: potential NSFW content) http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/1...in-full-swing/

This isn't the scientific study...a true scientific study probably won't happen anytime soon. But I think this data challenges people's conceptions that "Lolicon is a uniquely Japanese phenomenon," or that "Only the Japanese are lolicon." In coming years it's likely that the amount of lolicon fans outside Japan will equal, or even greatly surpass, those native to Japan. It makes one wonder if, without the current restrictive laws and Puritanical publics in Western countries, Western production of lolicon manga and products would be able to rival that of Japan.
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Old 2008-11-05, 01:34   Link #2
Evil Rick
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Ep, Ep!

I'm from Mexico, Lolicon is almost unknown among the Anime fans here, plus the ones who know about it, misslike it (at least majiority)
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Old 2008-11-05, 01:51   Link #3
mg1942
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all lolis must pass Miller Test before it gets here in the US.
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Old 2008-11-05, 01:55   Link #4
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
all lolis must pass Miller Test before it gets here in the US... This should be a breeze under the new administration/.
I don't know about that. Obama does have two young daughters.

(Little story: I was on a Japanese website, a while back, discussing the current US election. I brought up Obama, and several of the members (many having Loli avatars) commented on how 'cute' Obama's daughters are. While I assume these comments were meant to be good-natured, I have to admit that I was a little disturbed by the comments.)
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:01   Link #5
mg1942
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I'm just assuming if he picks 3 new SC judge.

3 *liberals* according to the Right. I also predict miller test will be broadly applied to future cases.
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:01   Link #6
Claies
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Well...Sankaku's comparison between 2001 and 2008 is not very significant. Between those 7 years is when all the authors jumped on the Internet to show off their work (in every genre), so naturally traffic on that is going to increase.

I see a possible cycle here between "on-backlash" right after the high-profile otaku incidents and "off-backlash" right now.
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:08   Link #7
einhorn303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
all lolis must pass Miller Test before it gets here in the US.

Well, that exact thing is being tested right now in the Handley case.

"The case started back in 2006 when Mr. Handley got some manga shipped from Japan and the Postal Inspector took a peek. Shortly afterwards, cops showed up at Handley’s home and searched his extensive collection of 1,200 manga, along with his computers.

Handley’s lawyers scored a major victory earlier this year when a judge found portions of the PROTECT Act unconstitutional. The legalese in question makes it a crime to knowingly produce, distribute, receive, or possess with intent to distribute, “a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting,” that “is, or appears to be” a minor engaged in sexual conduct.

So yes, it would seem we’re talking about loli/shota here.

But Handley isn’t out of hot water yet. He still faces charges for possessing “legally obscene” material. The material cannot be deemed obscene unless it meets all three of the criteria of the Miller test for obscenity: “(a) whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; (b) whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law; and (c) whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.” The jury must answer all three questions in the affirmative in order to convict."


Who knows if it'll actually end up going to the Supreme Court, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Rick View Post
Ep, Ep!

I'm from Mexico, Lolicon is almost unknown among the Anime fans here, plus the ones who know about it, misslike it (at least majiority)
Of course, the average lolicon fan might not go out in public and say "I LOVE LOLICON!!!" It's something people have a vested interest in keeping private. Also, lolicon tend to congregate in less mainstream communities (I can think of a number of them, both English and Spanish language), so people in more mainstream communities may be getting an inacccurate and sheltered view of what sort of demographics are really out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
(Little story: I was on a Japanese website, a while back, discussing the current US election. I brought up Obama, and several of the members (many having Loli avatars) commented on how 'cute' Obama's daughters are. While I assume these comments were meant to be good-natured, I have to admit that I was a little disturbed by the comments.)
The true cute Presidential descendant, though is Joe Biden's grand-daughter, Finnegan Biden: http://images-cdn01.associatedconten...300_182767.jpg

I doubt the Japanese know about her, but they'd love her. She's very Ana Coppola.
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:13   Link #8
mg1942
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Did Handley import doijin manga? Cause majority of the doujin work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:14   Link #9
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My, my, Biden has a really cute grand-daughter. She reminds me of a open-eyed Nunnally.
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:26   Link #10
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
My, my, Biden has a really cute grand-daughter. She reminds me of a open-eyed Nunnally.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....ha ha ha ha.....
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:31   Link #11
Claies
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I'm sorry, but some of you guys above me are doing exactly this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
(Little story: I was on a Japanese website, a while back, discussing the current US election. I brought up Obama, and several of the members (many having Loli avatars) commented on how 'cute' Obama's daughters are. While I assume these comments were meant to be good-natured, I have to admit that I was a little disturbed by the comments.)
Not cool. >_>;;
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:33   Link #12
yezhanquan
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Well, the little girl had a straight, smiling face. What am I supposed to call her, "ugly"?
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:34   Link #13
mg1942
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Also, there's a big push by UNICEF to ban loli (even in drawing). If they make enough noise, and if they get some backing in the US, it's all over...

Japan's reputation is forever tainted once this gets in the mainstream media.
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:38   Link #14
Urzu 7
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I don't like lolicon and shotacon. It seriously twists the minds of some and it turns from a 'fetish' to an attraction to kids in real life. Messed up shit. >_>

I know some people like lolicon and shotacon but are not pedophiles, but I'm sure these fetishes also make some people into pedophiles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Also, there's a big push by UNICEF to ban loli (even in drawing). If they make enough noise, and if they get some backing in the US, it's all over...

Japan's reputation is forever tainted once this gets in the mainstream media.
I hope such a thing doesn't happen. Even though I don't like lolicon, some of the stuff I look at might be deemed loli even though I'm cool with it (I didn't say, on the other hand, all the girls in my ecchi have to look 18 XD)...but yeah, it'd be bad for that, and also Japan's reputation. If people made a big enough stink about this (again, I really hope that never happens), it would tarnish Japan's reputation, and then anime would have an even worse image in America and if people found out I like anime, they'd be like "Oh my God, isn't that the stuff that has naked children" and me and all other anime fans are gonna be like "Oh Lord, they know nothing of it. -_-;".

I may not personally look at lolicon, but hey, that is it; I choose not to look at it. I'd rather it be allowed on the net then be banned and have the mass media damn anime and condemn the Japanese.
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2008-11-05 at 02:48.
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:41   Link #15
yezhanquan
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Well, to me, shotas and lolis are very useful for one trope: Break the Cutie.
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Old 2008-11-05, 02:45   Link #16
einhorn303
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Well again, this is a complicated matter. Earl Warren, possibly the most liberal Supreme Justice, chief justice from 1953-1969, he led to what's called the civil rights "Revolution"...he interpreted the Miller test in a very narrow way...that it had to COMPLETELY lack value, in a way that meant basically everything passed the Miller Test, even pornographic films like Deep Throat and such. This liberal interpretation got rolled back in the Nixon and Reagan years. Judicial law is a funny and fickle thing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Did Handley import doijin manga? Cause majority of the doujin work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
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Old 2008-11-05, 04:42   Link #17
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Cause majority of the doujin work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
Now define "serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value".
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Old 2008-11-05, 05:03   Link #18
mg1942
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(pulling a page from Obama playbook...)
Answering that question with specificity… is above my pay grade
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Old 2008-11-05, 05:07   Link #19
Vexx
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Quote:
...fetishes also make some people into pedophiles.
Please stick to provable assertions. Anyone can wave their arms and shout "think of the children!" We have plenty of witchburning mobs as it is.

I start getting cranky when any piece of literature or comic about a certain age group suddenly becomes darkly suspicious (like Ichigo Masimaro or Little Women for instance) to torch bearing mobs. I would sarcastically point at the newspaper adverts being dangerous when they put chidren's clothing on sale... but then there are moonbat loonies that get all righteous there as well. There's simply nothing wrong with calling a child cute or beautiful and I have to wonder about what is rattling around in people's brains who get horrified.

(does some backlink checks ....) oh yeah, Agnes Chan. Religious cult fanatic who managed to swing a head position at Japan UNICEF and sees monsters in every shadow..... great. She needs a spotlight turned on her as a moonbat loony...

Last edited by Vexx; 2008-11-05 at 05:26.
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Old 2008-11-05, 05:15   Link #20
mg1942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post

I hope such a thing doesn't happen. Even though I don't like lolicon, some of the stuff I look at might be deemed loli even though I'm cool with it (I didn't say, on the other hand, all the girls in my ecchi have to look 18 XD)...but yeah, it'd be bad for that, and also Japan's reputation. If people made a big enough stink about this (again, I really hope that never happens), it would tarnish Japan's reputation, and then anime would have an even worse image in America and if people found out I like anime, they'd be like "Oh my God, isn't that the stuff that has naked children" and me and all other anime fans are gonna be like "Oh Lord, they know nothing of it. -_-;".
(Very unlikely but...) if UNICEF gets someone like Karl Rove or Team Obama 2008 to organize anti-loli grassroots movement, with a lot of money, it's all over.. pool's closed. Japan will have to give in to demands of The G8, and soon The G33+ Industrialized/developing nations.
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