AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-02-18, 02:24   Link #301
Demongod86
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
There *used* to be tools in place to discourage speculative investing that engages in rapid flipping. I'd like to see encouragement and return to well-planned long-term investing using whatever levers are necessary.
Clearly you are uninformed. The most successful investment fund ever is one that takes up 10% of the daily NASDAQ trading volume, among other things.

Rapid-fire speculating is excellent because it keeps liquidity in the market and aids in price discovery.
Demongod86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 03:10   Link #302
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Clearly you're too young to remember and/or don't know much about the market prior to the mid 90s as that last sentence is flat nonsense about "price discovery". You're just repeating casino-think about such things. I think we've seen the results of that little experiment .... so I won't waste my time with you.

Last edited by Vexx; 2009-02-18 at 14:35.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 21:16   Link #303
Demongod86
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Oy, ojiisan, get with the times. We didn't have live data streams in the mid 90s. Today, this most successful fund is not run by human beings. It is a set of computers, constantly kept updated with new strategies by some of the most brilliant minds in the world, and their president, James Simons, is the richest man on Long Island, on account of his mathematical ability.

Indeed, we *have* seen the results of this experiment. 40% annualized returns net of all management fees over the last 20 years.

The market has blown up because of idiots out of business school chasing dollars. Not because of intelligent minds with strategies.

Last edited by Demongod86; 2009-02-18 at 21:29.
Demongod86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 21:30   Link #304
ClockWorkAngel
Aspiring Aspirer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Somewhere Over The Rainbow, Canada
Age: 22
Send a message via MSN to ClockWorkAngel
He can do it for 7 points? That's quite amazing.

I believe what Vexx is referring to is the prospect of long term investments in a way not to make a huge profit quickly but fueling a company's ability to produce and expand (Hence the term investment). The amazing strategies that they think of to make their fast profits don't contribute to a company at all, which allows them to make their money (Where it comes from I don't know)
__________________

Credit To Risa-chan!
ClockWorkAngel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 22:55   Link #305
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Exactly... *investing* is a different animal than *speculation* -- the latter is basically casino play that in good times produces imaginary dollars (which is much of what has disappeared recently) that aren't reflected in a given company's basic fundamentals. The individual stocks I'm invested in have lost much less of their value than the majority of the market because they more accurately reflects their real value rather than speculative or "lust" value.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 23:02   Link #306
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
Why do you not support gun control? Wouldn't that make the United States a safer place? When everybody have a gun, fist fights will less occur because it becomes more chaotic. I don't think the idea of allowing everybody to own a gun would result as a deterrent that prevents violence. In fact, it would promote it. Although I don't think Obama will succeed in getting the world out of recession but his action towards gun control is good.
Obama and the Democrats are running the American economy off the cliff, or at best, keeping the recession around for years longer than need be. Same as FDR back in the 1930's. Don't even get me started on your gun control. Something that is entirely unconstitutional in my country, and anyone who tries to infringe on the 2nd amendment, should be tried for treason.

The Republicans added their own piece of the pie to this mess during the last 10 years and don't escape blame either, but they don't hold the lion's share of blame.
__________________
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 23:10   Link #307
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Obama and the Democrats are running the American economy off the cliff, or at best, keeping the recession around for years longer than need be. Same as FDR back in the 1930's.
...
The Republicans added their own piece of the pie to this mess during the last 10 years and don't escape blame either, but they don't hold the lion's share of blame.
Nice reinvention of history there.... but it doesn't really fly with even a cursory study of the 1925-1938 period. I also believe it was our lovely Wall Street, executives, and speculators that ran us over the cliff with the "no regulation" mantra between 1996-2006.

And do you plan on trying Bush and Co. for treason? After all, they infringed on over half of the Bill of Rights during their eight years.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 23:11   Link #308
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Nice reinvention of history there.... but it doesn't really fly.
Re-invention of history? Care to explain? I will provide links if you need them.

http://www.rooseveltmyth.com/book/fd...rgotten_De.htm

First one I found by google, but I can dig up a few from other sources.

FDR is viewed by many as one of the best presidents America's ever had. Truth be told, he's one of the worst.

I'd have all of the politicians in congress kicked out if I had the ability to do so. But alas, I do not, and I watch as they run rip apart a piece of the constitution piece by piece.

http://www.hoover.org/publications/p...w/3476271.html


http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/G/r/Great_Depression.htm
Another thread...
__________________
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 23:21   Link #309
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Oh please.... *thats* your link? I've seen a number of attempts by the far right wing to deconstruct and reinterpret the 20th Century to validate neocon theories. So no, there are much more thorough debunkings available - easily found. Frankly I see no reason to waste a lot of time on this anymore than I'd waste time debating creationism vs evolution.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 23:28   Link #310
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Oh please.... *thats* your link? I've seen a number of attempts by the far right wing to deconstruct and reinterpret the 20th Century to validate neocon theories. So no, there are much more thorough debunkings available - easily found. Frankly I see no reason to waste a lot of time on this anymore than I'd waste time debating creationism vs evolution.
Translation: You can't. Thanks for playing.

The New Deal was a direct attack on Capitalism, and a successful attempt to increase the size of government way beyond it's constitutional boundries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvnwOjDjnH4

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...erty.stimulus/

Pork Bill aka Stimulus bill is being ramrodded down our throats, and nobody's even bothered to read the whole thing. Care to see the huge increases in Government spending there? This "Stimulus Bill" does nothing to stimulate the economy here. Why don't you find out how much of the money is even going to be spent this year?

Tens of billions of dollars are going to save home-owners from losing their homes. Hello! 90% of them probably shouldn't have gotten those loans to begin with! They obviously couldn't afford them.

Why did they get the loans in the first place? A combination of them over-spending their means, Banks taking advantage of the housing boom, and Politicians forcing the lending institutions to lower their restrictions on loans, so that minorities and low-income people could get loans for homes they couldn't afford.

Reality finally hit, and if the Government would just get out of the way, the Economy will rebound on it's own.

The Politicians are attempting to Nationalize the bank system. That's Socialism. Something that goes against everything our Founding Fathers were for.

Notice how I don't point the blame at any one political party, as both parties had their fingers in the pie. The sheeple are too stupid to see what's going on here, and want to be spoon-fed everything while the Tax-payer, who pays their bills, get screwed.
__________________
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 23:31   Link #311
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Quote:
Translation: You can't. Thanks for playing.
Nice try ... but I just choose not to waste time with you (or anyone else who seems to have spent too much time listening to one particular strain of talking points).

Maybe you should read the wiki on John T. Flynn (hint: conspiracy obsessive and ardent McCarthyist) and do your own research from a variety of sources before you mouth off.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 23:39   Link #312
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
Read the article. Your point is still missing Vexx.
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 23:40   Link #313
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Translation: You can't. Thanks for playing.

The New Deal was a direct attack on Capitalism, and a successful attempt to increase the size of government way beyond it's constitutional boundries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvnwOjDjnH4

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...erty.stimulus/

Pork Bill aka Stimulus bill is being ramrodded down our throats, and nobody's even bothered to read the whole thing. Care to see the huge increases in Government spending there? This "Stimulus Bill" does nothing to stimulate the economy here. Why don't you find out how much of the money is even going to be spent this year?
Not to get too involved with your discussion, but I just wanted to point out that Boehner was and is lying during his little spat concerning how long the Congressmen had to study the Bill. Not only is the majority of the Bill unchanged from the original drafts from a month ago, but each Senator and Representative has a good size staff (of at least 10 people, sometimes more) that was used to explore the Bill thoroughly (even if the Bill was brand new, all it would take is a day to have 10 people go through the entire thing, looking for any problems or 'hidden agendas'. Now imagine if every GOP Senator/Representative had their staffs working n analysizing the Bill? There is no way thy couldn't get through the Bill in a day.). Added to that, whenever a Bill is amended or changed in any way, the reintroduced Bill must list the specific changes and where the changes can be found within the Bill.

So, everyone knew what was in the Bill.

The entire GOP response to the Recovery Bill was pure pomp and theatre with very little actual legitimate criticism (and legitimate criticism does exist, just not from the GOP).

Just to give a good idea of what is in the Bill, please (everyone) check out the official webpage (here), which lists all the parts of the Bill, and will list the specific dates that specific parts of the Bill will be implemented.

Last edited by james0246; 2009-02-18 at 23:50.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 23:50   Link #314
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Not to get too involved with your discussion, but I just wanted to point out that Boehner was and is lying during his little spat concerning how long the Congressmen had to study the Bill. Not only is the majority of the Bill unchanged from the original drafts from a month ago, but each Senator and Representative has a good size staff (of at least 10 people, sometimes more) that was used to explore the Bill thoroughly (even if the Bill was brand new, all it would take is a day to have 10 people go through the entire thing, looking for any problems or 'hidden agendas'). Added to that, whenever a Bill is amended, the reintroduced Bill must list the specific changes and where the changes can be found within the Bill.

So, everyone knew what was in the Bill.

The entire GOP response to the Recovery Bill was pure pomp and theatre with very little actual legitimate criticism (and legitimate criticism does exist, just not from the GOP).

Just to give a good idea of what is in the Bill, please (everyone) check out the official webpage (here), which lists all the parts of the Bill, and will list the specific dates that specific parts of the Bill will be implemented.
From your link... 81 billion dollars in 'protecting the vulnerable'. WTF does that mean?

288 billion dollars for 'tax relief', but it fails to mention that much of the money will be going to people who don't pay federal income tax. Free money whoo hoo!

59 billion for healthcare. There's already huge healthcare waste being drawn out from illegal immigration here. Not to mention healthcare isn't something the Federal Government should be getting itself involved with.

30 million dollars to protect marsh field mice in the Bay area(Nancy Pelosi's district), 2 million dollars for a dog park in Chula Vista(about 15 miles from me), etc.
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-18, 23:58   Link #315
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Today at the gym I had Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC to watch simultaneously. Fox was doing their imitation of news via the Murdoch-owned Wall St. Journal report, CNN was doing the Lou Dobbs "comedy hour" and MSNBC was using their stable of talking heads... the mischaracterizations, misinformation, and regurged GOP 'talking points' was relentless. Watching the "Machine" that has been in power the last eight years looting and incapacitating the system trying to recover its control is fascinating.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-19, 00:04   Link #316
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
Again, I love how you turn a blind eye to one party's actions, to criticize another's. In my world, we call a person like that a hypocrite Vexx. Have you not seen the blatant stealing of the Senatorial seat in Minnesota by Al Franken and his goons during the so called 'recounts'? Did you not hear about Acorn's corruption with voter registration(the entire Dallas Cowboys team was registered in Nevada?). Low and behold, Acorn will have access to up to 39 billion dollars of this stimulus bill. 3 of Obama's choices for his cabinet have tax fraud that would have landed anybody else fines or jail time?

Bush and the GOP did their own screwing the home while they had power, but it's about to get a whole lot worse now than it was then.
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-19, 00:08   Link #317
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
From your link... 81 billion dollars in 'protecting the vulnerable'. WTF does that mean?
Protecting the Vulnerable is where the main bulk of the immediate aid is found. For example:

Emergency Fund for TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) -- this is essentially the program that used to be known as AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) or "welfare."

Economic Recovery Payments to recipients of Social Security income, railroad retirement benefits, and veterans disability and pension benefits

Premium Assistance for COBRA benefits -- COBRA is the program that allows people to continue (at cost) their employer-provided health insurance after the employees have been terminated

etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
288 billion dollars for 'tax relief', but it fails to mention that much of the money will be going to people who don't pay federal income tax. Free money whoo hoo!
Everyone pays taxes in one form or another. Whether it be through their work or simply through the local taxes on their food and resources. There is no such thing as 'free money'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
59 billion for healthcare. There's already huge healthcare waste being drawn out from illegal immigration here. Not to mention healthcare isn't something the Federal Government should be getting itself involved with.
No matter how you look at it, the current state of the Health Care company in this country is fucked. Individuals cannot afford the care, and companies only wish to provide shitty care. So, something has to change.

That being said, much of the Healtcare section deals with the creation of a modernized Healthcare system, specifically, Health information technology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
30 million dollars to protect marsh field mice in the Bay area(Nancy Pelosi's district), 2 million dollars for a dog park in Chula Vista(about 15 miles from me), etc.
This is false. The Bill has nothing in it for San Francisco wetlands/marshs nor little mice that live there. This was a rumour created by the right that has become propganda against the Bill. (see Here.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Did you not hear about Acorn's corruption with voter registration(the entire Dallas Cowboys team was registered in Nevada?). Low and behold, Acorn will have access to up to 39 billion dollars of this stimulus bill. 3 of Obama's choices for his cabinet have tax fraud that would have landed anybody else fines or jail time?
Not only is your dollar amount off, but you are barely correct.

See here and here for what ACORN could potentially do with part of the Recovery Bill (I say potentially because the money is not set aside for ACORN).
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-19, 00:15   Link #318
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Protecting the Vulnerable is where the main bulk of the immediate aid is found. For example:

Emergency Fund for TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) -- this is essentially the program that used to be known as AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) or "welfare."

Everyone pays taxes in one form or another. Whether it be through their work or simply through the local taxes on their food and resources. There is no such thing as 'free money'.
Welfare, a Panzi scheme if there ever was one. And there is such a thing as free money, when you don't have to work for something. Whether you pay taxes or not, if you didn't earn it, it's free. I watched a good friend of mine raise his 4 siblings while we were in HS while his mom leeched off Welfare, did drugs, and stayed with her boyfriends getting drunk off her butt. All 5 kids were from different fathers, and she never had a job, yet she's drawing Welfare. Finally somebody took notice and the other 4 children were sent off to families that could care for them, years later.


Quote:
This is false. The Bill has nothing in it for San Francisco wetlands/marshs nor little mice that live there. This was a rumour created by the right that has become propganda against the Bill. (see Here.)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-mouse-cookie/

Wonder which one of us is more accurate...
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-19, 00:17   Link #319
sikvod00
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Homestead, FL
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Re-invention of history? Care to explain? I will provide links if you need them.

http://www.rooseveltmyth.com/book/fd...rgotten_De.htm

First one I found by google, but I can dig up a few from other sources.
You can also google sites that say the New Deal was fairly successful. I really don't think it's fair to post a link to an article and then expect someone read it all as if that's the only legitiimate view out there. It helps if you try to summarize their main point or use quotes that way it's easier on people. Otherwise a debate ends up being nothing more than a link dump...like this:

Conservative Fiction: The New Deal Sucked!

Even more myths and
falsehoods surrounding the economic recovery plan


Franklin Delano Obama?

Right-Washing the New Deal

Are you really going to read all this?
sikvod00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-19, 00:18   Link #320
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Welfare, a Panzi scheme if there ever was one. And there is such a thing as free money, when you don't have to work for something. Whether you pay taxes or not, if you didn't earn it, it's free. I watched a good friend of mine raise his 4 siblings while we were in HS while his mom leeched off Welfare, did drugs, and stayed with her boyfriends getting drunk off her butt. All 5 kids were from different fathers, and she never had a job, yet she's drawing Welfare. Finally somebody took notice and the other 4 children were sent off to families that could care for them, years later.
I don't eally feel like starting a discussion concerning the Welfare system and its placement in the United States. But, I will say that I do think that the descion to take out the welfare-to-work provisions that Bill Clinton signed in the 1990s could be very bad (in the short term at least, it will definetly be bad).

In the end, welfare is endlessly debatable, and there is no clear cut answer concerning the use of wwelfare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-mouse-cookie/

Wonder which one of us is more accurate...
My link is more accurate. There is no point is talking about a myth that was already debunked by the GOP Chairman Michael Steele himself (as you said earlier, please read the link I provided).
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
united_states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.