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Old 2004-04-03, 03:27   Link #1
Quarkboy
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Revolutionary Girl Utena

So I finally rewatched Utena, after a long time. I had watched it on afs VHS rips 4 years ago, and now rewatched it on DVD. I had forgotten how great it was.

Anyway, I wondered back then, and am still wondering: What's the deal with the Black Rose saga in the middle of the series? Not that I didn't like it, in fact, some of the best episodes are in it, but it could be completely cut out of the series without changing anything (One exception: Saiyonji's un-expulsion). Also, 39 episodes is a weird number, normally its 13 or 26 or 52, not 39; almost like 13 episodes had been added to it. Was this saga part of the original planning for the show, or was it added later on to extend the run for some reason?

I miss anime like this... there will never be another Utena.
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Old 2004-04-03, 22:36   Link #2
tenjouutena
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hmmm, utena is certainly a great series ;D I haven't seen it in awhile, maybe I should acquire those dvds some time soon.

Seasons are usually 13 episodes long, so it's not entirely odd that there are 39. At least it's not as odd as the number of bishoujo senshi sailormoon episodes out there =P hahaha.

I believe he black rose saga was part of the original plan for the show; it just draws out the side story about Mikage that was featured in the last book of the manga. Ruka's return to the academy was also from a side story, although the anime took a slightly different turn, concerning Juri's sexual orientation.

I'm not sure if you've read the manga, so sorry if I regurgitated old news =P

Ah, utena. Although I greatly enjoyed this series, I personally found the duel sequences in the black rose saga quite annoying, considering the amount of reused footage. What'd you think of the movie?
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Old 2004-04-03, 23:30   Link #3
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I haven't read the manga myself, though I found an interesting web page with a pretty good comparison between the two here .
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Old 2004-12-04, 19:09   Link #4
ohtori_akio
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Revolutionary Girl Utena

I'm just creating this thread because I couldn't find any specifically on the masterpiece that is Revolutionary Girl Utena. I would like to know if like me there are people who are huge fans of the series. I would just like your opinion on a few things and know what you thought of the series or the movie yourself. Here in Australia, it never reached cult status though it deserves to. The series was never officially released though the movie was, go figure!!!! Anyway for starters, does anyone like Ohtori Akio or is he really the most hated character?
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Old 2004-12-05, 08:31   Link #5
donna8157
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I think it's a great anime series, one that usually is overlooked nowadays because the animation may not be as eye-catching. But the storyline for this series is absolutely brilliant. In the beginning, the story was a bit awkward .. a girl who strove to become a prince?

But as the series went on, it became darker and much much more twisted. The characters had multi-faceted goals and personalities. And this series also had a lot of symbolism -- especially in the Black Rose Arc.

If you liked this series, I recommend "Princess Tutu". It has a similar structure to Utena and I thought it was beautiful, angst-ridden. Don't let the childish name disallude you into thinking that this is a kiddy anime.
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Old 2004-12-05, 13:08   Link #6
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I have read the entire manga, it was pretty good, my friend has one of the dvds, it's funny. I'm not a huge fan of that kind of shojo stuff though.
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Old 2004-12-06, 03:09   Link #7
ohtori_akio
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I'm so happy to see that there are others out there who like this series as much as I do. I recently showed the movie to my anime club and their love for it was purely based on the animation. When I previewed some of the series for them, they felt it was a bit of a let down, which is I think ridiculous because as far as series go, Utena is one that remains consistent in the way the characters and the backdrops are drawn. I have also recently acquired one of the artbooks and the drawings are just amazing!!!! Anyone who has read the manga would also realise that the artwork from this series is one of the best out there. Go Be-Papas!!!!

P.S: Does anyone know why there is so little of us discussing this great anime?
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Old 2004-12-06, 04:28   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohtori_akio
I'm so happy to see that there are others out there who like this series as much as I do. I recently showed the movie to my anime club and their love for it was purely based on the animation. When I previewed some of the series for them, they felt it was a bit of a let down, which is I think ridiculous because as far as series go, Utena is one that remains consistent in the way the characters and the backdrops are drawn. I have also recently acquired one of the artbooks and the drawings are just amazing!!!! Anyone who has read the manga would also realise that the artwork from this series is one of the best out there. Go Be-Papas!!!!

P.S: Does anyone know why there is so little of us discussing this great anime?
What first drew me to Utena was the OP song. Somebody sent me an mp3 and based solely on that, I went out and bought the 1st volume on VHS. It's actually only one of the few series that I've felt ranked highly enough for me to give it a Masterpiece rating on the ANN Encyclopedia. The music, art, and story really do put it in a level that few other anime can really achieve.

I knew a lot of rabid Utena fanboys and fangirls a few years ago when I was a regular poster and reader of the newsgroup aft.fan.utena. I haven't been back there in several years, but it looks like a fairly active discussion group. That's probably the best place to go if you want to meet other Utena fans. These boards seem to mostly discuss newer series than ones that aired 7 years ago in Japan.
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Old 2004-12-06, 04:55   Link #9
ohtori_akio
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I agree, the music does a good job in establishing the happenings of the series. I tried to do a search for both ANN Encyclopedia and aft.fan.utena. both couldn't find anything. Could you tell me where I should be looking. Thanks.
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Old 2004-12-06, 05:22   Link #10
NoSanninWa
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ANN Encyclopedia

As for alt.fan.utena, that is a little harder to explain since it is a newsgroup, not a website. If you want to know more I'd suggest that you start looking at Forte Agent. Newsgroups are what we had on the internet before the WWW was invented. Yes, they still exist.
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Old 2004-12-06, 05:39   Link #11
ohtori_akio
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Thanks for that. I'll make sure to check them out. Don't know if you know this but the manga based on the Utena movie was recently released if you wanna get it since you mentioned being a fan too. It's really good!!!
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Old 2004-12-06, 06:47   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohtori_akio
Thanks for that. I'll make sure to check them out. Don't know if you know this but the manga based on the Utena movie was recently released if you wanna get it since you mentioned being a fan too. It's really good!!!
Already got it a couple years ago from Japan.
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Old 2004-12-07, 20:09   Link #13
ohtori_akio
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Just something I was wondering since I have been rewatching the Utena series: Does anyone know what Miki's stop watch symbolises? He uses it each time he says something. Do you think he's just timing how long it takes him to make a comment (that's not too far fetched since he is so shy and that might be his shell)? Anyway tell me what you guys think.
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Old 2004-12-07, 21:03   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohtori_akio
Just something I was wondering since I have been rewatching the Utena series: Does anyone know what Miki's stop watch symbolises? He uses it each time he says something. Do you think he's just timing how long it takes him to make a comment (that's not too far fetched since he is so shy and that might be his shell)? Anyway tell me what you guys think.
In the director's commentary of either the movie or the final TV disc, Ikuhara mentioned that Miki was timing how long the person who spoke directly before him was speaking, or something to that effect. I can't remember exactly what he said.
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Old 2004-12-08, 17:52   Link #15
ohtori_akio
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Thanks for that Magus IX, that does make a bit of sense although you have to wonder why he would bother..makes him more interesting I guess. By the way, does anyone here know where on the Internet or within Australia is a good place to get Utena items, such as plushies, posters, wall scrolls etc and especially artbooks? If so could you please let me know, i'd love to know of the Art from it. Thanks
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Old 2004-12-08, 21:29   Link #16
Quarkboy
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I think there's more meaning to it then just the timing... Timing people's lines with a stopwatch is exactly a step during production of the anime itself (you've seen this if you've watched "Animation Runne Kuromi"). It's a crucial job that makes sure that each cut fits the dialogue, and allows the voice actors to act the lines naturally.
In my opinion, it fixes the timing of the show, and makes a big difference depending on the style.
So I interpret Mickey's timing as another symbolism of the student council as representing "order" and "structure". Or another way of interpretation is a self referential one: Mickey knows that each character's lines are fixed to a certain length, and the stopwatch emphasizes that. It's like each one of them is functioning in lockstep with someone watching over them's desires. They have no choice but to structure their own speach inside these limited time constraints. As is the very lives of the student council member's themselves, struggling to overcome the boundaries that outside forces have placed upon them, ultimately fruitlessly. In this anime, only Utena has this power (and she is never timed).

Just my opinion, though.
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Old 2004-12-09, 00:59   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy
I think there's more meaning to it then just the timing... Timing people's lines with a stopwatch is exactly a step during production of the anime itself (you've seen this if you've watched "Animation Runne Kuromi"). It's a crucial job that makes sure that each cut fits the dialogue, and allows the voice actors to act the lines naturally.
In my opinion, it fixes the timing of the show, and makes a big difference depending on the style.
So I interpret Mickey's timing as another symbolism of the student council as representing "order" and "structure". Or another way of interpretation is a self referential one: Mickey knows that each character's lines are fixed to a certain length, and the stopwatch emphasizes that. It's like each one of them is functioning in lockstep with someone watching over them's desires. They have no choice but to structure their own speach inside these limited time constraints. As is the very lives of the student council member's themselves, struggling to overcome the boundaries that outside forces have placed upon them, ultimately fruitlessly. In this anime, only Utena has this power (and she is never timed).

Just my opinion, though.
Thanks. I always wonder why he keeps doing that but never really go around to find out. Whether it's true or not, good analysis.
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Old 2004-12-12, 14:25   Link #18
ohtori_akio
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Hey thanks for that Quarkboy. I never thought of that but it's quite logical. Good thinking!!!

Now for some Utena trivia (hope this is the right thread todo this) name five duelists from the Order of the Black Rose.
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Old 2006-02-18, 13:11   Link #19
sugarducky
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Adolescence of Utena and Utena TV

I just got a boxed set of the first 13 episodes of the Utena TV series, and the Adolescence of Utena movie. I watched the TV episodes and liked them. I liked the movie too, untill
Spoiler:

That just seemed way too ridiculous to me.
Does that happen in the TV series? I hope not.
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Old 2006-02-18, 16:17   Link #20
Bracken33
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No, it doesn´t happen as far as I can remember.
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