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Old 2008-12-18, 00:09   Link #241
Shadow Kira01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou View Post
I wholeheartedly agree.

However, I also think it would be rather unfair to place disproportionate blame on China and India. On a per-capita basis, their emissions levels are far lower than those of developed countries. By all means, China and India should set stringent standards and sign up to the Kyoto Protocol, but they are no more and no less to blame than other countries with smaller populations and hence lower emissions.
I do realize that countries like the United States is not in the position to place blame on other countries when it comes to pollution-related issues. After all, many American companies decide to build factories in China and India due to its cheap labor and resources. Naturally, those two countries will be much more polluted than the United States. Then again, there seems to be no valid reason for all 3 countries to avoid signing the Kyoto Protocol and step up to protecting the environment, as well as preventing global warming. If it's an issue of fundings, all they got to do is reduce their military budget and placed the piece of fund into the environment division. Works out?
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Old 2008-12-18, 00:11   Link #242
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
I do realize that countries like the United States is not in the position to place blame on other countries when it comes to pollution-related issues. After all, many American companies decide to build factories in China and India due to its cheap labor and resources. Naturally, those two countries will be much more polluted than the United States. Then again, there seems to be no valid reason for all 3 countries to avoid signing the Kyoto Protocol and step up to protecting the environment, as well as preventing global warming. If it's an issue of fundings, all they got to do is reduce their military budget and placed the piece of fund into the environment division. Works out?
^^ Reducing the MILITARY budget? You are MAD.
China is worried about the Japan and Korean US forces.
India has Pakistan to worry about.
And the US has everyone to worry about.

Why not try cutting the pay of the political leaders?
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Old 2008-12-18, 00:47   Link #243
Yukinokesshou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya View Post
Why not try cutting the pay of the political leaders?
That would only be statistically significant in Singapore
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Old 2008-12-18, 00:55   Link #244
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
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Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou View Post
That would only be statistically significant in Singapore
^^ No, US and UK too.
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Old 2008-12-18, 00:57   Link #245
iLney
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Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya View Post
^^ Reducing the MILITARY budget? You are MAD.
China is worried about the Japan and Korean US forces.
India has Pakistan to worry about.
And the US has everyone to worry about.

Why not try cutting the pay of the political leaders?
Actually, he is quite sane. Since everyone else is mad, the sane becomes mad and the mad becomes sane

The US worries about everyone and everyone worries about the US. And everyone enters the arm-race in the name of "defense." And since everyone defends, by logic, there should be no war whatsoever. But there are wars. Thus, some of "everyone" must be the offender.

Japan: we're sure that we're innocent.
China: same here.
The US: not me
.....etc......

<all>: you @#$# liars.
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Old 2008-12-18, 05:15   Link #246
Kang Seung Jae
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It would be nice, but as long as there is a Big Dragon, I doubt it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimatheKat View Post
But the British didn't create a Holocaust.

The Germans and Japanese did.We all know the German one, but the Japanese had one too..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
Technically calling that a Holocaust is blowing things up.
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Old 2008-12-18, 06:26   Link #247
Shadow Kira01
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Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya View Post
^^ Reducing the MILITARY budget? You are MAD.
China is worried about the Japan and Korean US forces.
India has Pakistan to worry about.
And the US has everyone to worry about.

Why not try cutting the pay of the political leaders?
Very funny!! Your belief makes no sense. You have absolutely no clue as to what is going on in the world. China's non-transparent military budget and all those nukes are for "deterrence" and "self-defense". India is worried about Pakistan, when Pakistan got their nukes and military power right off of China. Shouldn't India be more worried in regards that the commander of the pawn attacks them head-on and they wouldn't be able to handle it?

Reducing the salary of political leaders is a good idea, but the long-term effect would be bribery and corruption, which causes more trouble. I do understand that war is unavoidable, as long as countries continue to hold a forever loop of hatred, as well as an active military agenda.
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Old 2008-12-18, 06:27   Link #248
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
It would be nice, but as long as there is a Big Dragon, I doubt it.




Technically calling that a Holocaust is blowing things up.
I disagree here. It was really huge.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...508070534.html
^^ Some reading.

Quote:
ery funny!! Your belief makes no sense. You have absolutely no clue as to what is going on in the world. China's non-transparent military budget and all those nukes are for "deterrence" and "self-defense". India is worried about Pakistan, when Pakistan got their nukes and military power right off of China. Shouldn't India be more worried in regards that the commander of the pawn attacks them head-on and they wouldn't be able to handle it?

Reducing the salary of political leaders is a good idea, but the long-term effect would be bribery and corruption, which causes more trouble. I do understand that war is unavoidable, as long as countries continue to hold a forever loop of hatred, as well as an active military agenda.
My point was, will you really think they'd agree to THAT? I think there's more of a chance of them just bombing each other.
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Old 2008-12-18, 06:51   Link #249
Tri-ring
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Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya View Post
My point was, will you really think they'd agree to THAT? I think there's more of a chance of them just bombing each other.
War is an instrument to obtain an "ECONOMICALLY" goal.
IF each and everyone is able to accept their own "PRESENT" life then war should not happen.
THE worst thing happening is when majority of a nation LOSES it's present quo.
Then the general populous starts searching for the elusive culprit.
It doesn't matter if the top is accountable or not the general populous now turned into a mob wants blood and most impotent figures will point a scapegoat not telling the mob that in actuality everyone is to blame which will in no doubt result in fueling the mob.

For example let's look at the present World wide economy crisis, who is it to blame?
To be honest I belieive every single person on this planet should be found accountable.
Do you really think a politician running for office is able to face his supporter in the eye telling them that we are all to blame and we should repent?
Of course not.
It's we the general populous that needs to wisen up and face our own mistakes and not ask who is to blame.
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Old 2008-12-18, 07:15   Link #250
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
War is an instrument to obtain an "ECONOMICALLY" goal.
IF each and everyone is able to accept their own "PRESENT" life then war should not happen.
THE worst thing happening is when majority of a nation LOSES it's present quo.
Then the general populous starts searching for the elusive culprit.
It doesn't matter if the top is accountable or not the general populous now turned into a mob wants blood and most impotent figures will point a scapegoat not telling the mob that in actuality everyone is to blame which will in no doubt result in fueling the mob.

For example let's look at the present World wide economy crisis, who is it to blame?
To be honest I belieive every single person on this planet should be found accountable.
Do you really think a politician running for office is able to face his supporter in the eye telling them that we are all to blame and we should repent?
Of course not.
It's we the general populous that needs to wisen up and face our own mistakes and not ask who is to blame.
^^ And you'd think people would listen to that. Most people wouldn't, trust me.
It's logical but many people rather not follow logic, they'd rather do things that are illogical to us, but logical to them. Esp. China.
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Old 2008-12-18, 08:32   Link #251
Tri-ring
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Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya View Post
^^ And you'd think people would listen to that. Most people wouldn't, trust me.
It's logical but many people rather not follow logic, they'd rather do things that are illogical to us, but logical to them. Esp. China.
Thus people will never change and war will always be part of human culture.
When I wrote everyone is accountable it includes you, the silent bystander, the ones who said "what did I do?", or "I didn't do anything".
That is right you didn't do anything, anything to prevent it from happening therefore you are equally accountable.

It's not the size you are able to move that counts, no matter how much it may seem helpless, resisting and fighting against it is always that counts.
Some will say it is a lost cause but that is not for the people of the present to decide.
Before criticizing other nations, if you think there is something wrong in YOUR HOMELAND then it is YOUR responsibility to say that it is wrong.

I heard alot of drum beating accusing another nation in this thread but can someone start by criticizing their own?

Japan's biggest problem is it's large bureaucracy trying to save it's skin and politician impotent not being able to do anything to fix it.
Japan's education problem is not able to teach their children to evaluate a problem on their own and think for themselves. They are taught to memorize and solve a problem through a fixed process but are not able to create their own. Therefore not able to deal with problems that predecessor have not met or solved.
Some call me brainwashed but I consider myself enlightened becuase I do evaluate through my own process and make draw my own conclusions through logic and common sense which I find it as a rare comodity these days.
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Old 2008-12-18, 08:35   Link #252
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
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Japan's education problem is not able to teach their children to evaluate a problem on their own and think for themselves. They are taught to memorize and solve a problem through a fixed process but are not able to create their own. Therefore not able to deal with problems that predecessor have not met or solved.
The absolute truth. AMEN!
[this from a social worker in Japan working in partnership with schools]
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Old 2008-12-18, 08:47   Link #253
Tri-ring
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Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya View Post
The absolute truth. AMEN!
[this from a social worker in Japan working in partnership with schools]
That is not what I was asking.
What is your nation's problem?
As I said before, before criticizing others let's hear of your own.
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Old 2008-12-18, 08:55   Link #254
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
That is not what I was asking.
What is your nation's problem?
As I said before, before criticizing others let's hear of your own.
^^ Same as yours. So I let you do it for me, I'm too lazy. OK Okinawa has its own problems, but it's still part of Japan, right??
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Old 2008-12-18, 08:59   Link #255
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya View Post
I disagree here. It was really huge.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...508070534.html
^^ Some reading.
I'm not saying it wasn't big, but rather, comparing it with the scale of the Holocaust is going to far.
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Old 2008-12-18, 09:15   Link #256
Tri-ring
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Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya View Post
^^ Same as yours. So I let you do it for me, I'm too lazy. OK Okinawa has its own problems, but it's still part of Japan, right??
So you're eager to criticizes other and yet you're inept to draw conclusions of your own.

Typical.
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Old 2008-12-18, 11:33   Link #257
Yukinokesshou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
I'm not saying it wasn't big, but rather, comparing it with the scale of the Holocaust is going to far.
So because it wasn't as "big" as the Holocaust, it should be overlooked and Japan is less at fault than Germany?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
I heard alot of drum beating accusing another nation in this thread but can someone start by criticizing their own?
Well, China is my nation and when have I ever been complimentary towards it? I criticise China as much as I criticise Japan, and have as little regard for hot-blooded Chinese nationalists as I do for Japanese nationalists.

You can argue that Hong Kong is my "nation" (even though it's not a nation) and it's only natural for a Hong Konger to have reservations about the Mainland. In that case, I have my criticisms of Hong Kong as well - namely, an overly materialistic, money-centric and selfish culture plus a general apathy towards politics - but because Hong Kong is not usually embroiled in "nationalistic" debates and gets along just fine with Japan and Korea, it is largely irrelevant in this discussion.

And yes, of course I'm to blame too, but there's really not much I can do about it apart from make noise (which I have done, on numerous occasions, by writing letters to the editor of the South China Morning Post).

Last edited by Yukinokesshou; 2008-12-18 at 11:47.
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Old 2008-12-18, 13:29   Link #258
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya View Post
^^ Reducing the MILITARY budget? You are MAD.
China is worried about the Japan and Korean US forces.
India has Pakistan to worry about.
And the US has everyone to worry about.
Very funny!! Your belief makes no sense. You have absolutely no clue as to what is going on in the world. China's non-transparent military budget and all those nukes are for "deterrence" and "self-defense". India is worried about Pakistan, when Pakistan got their nukes and military power right off of China. Shouldn't India be more worried in regards that the commander of the pawn attacks them head-on and they wouldn't be able to handle it?
While kyon.haruhi.suzumiya's remarks are stated farcically, they're actually not all that far from the truth as well. The PLA's modernization came as a direct result of the overwhelming success of Operation Desert Storm. The Chinese leaders realized that their forces were hopelessly outdated and unable to offer much resistance were such power directed at them. While Japan is a much lesser concern, China's strategic objective has always been to have enough capability to entertain a realistic chance of taking Taiwan. To this effect, the PLA-N is a very long way from being there.

Ever since becoming independent, India's most pressing security challenge has been Pakistan (both government and non-government groups), and it remains so to this day. That horrible situation in Mumbai and the almost-border clashes in Kashmir demonstrate this very well. While there's certainly a degree of rivalry with China (including a brief war), tensions have lessened significantly in the last decade. (That the two countries are probably each other's greatest rivals notwithstanding)

In terms of military capability, neither China nor India can do much offensively (both militaries being very much outdated with most of their troops being leg infantry). Moreover, their nuclear arsenals are modest enough that they can't realistically perform first strikes on another nuclear power (with the possible exception of Pakistan), so it can be argued that their main value is as a deterrent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
War is an instrument to obtain an "ECONOMICALLY" goal.
IF each and everyone is able to accept their own "PRESENT" life then war should not happen.
That's only partially true as there are a fair number of other reasons for waging war (although economic reasons do predominate). And for that matter, if everyone were satisfied with their present status, then we probably won't be human anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
For example let's look at the present World wide economy crisis, who is it to blame?
To be honest I belieive every single person on this planet should be found accountable.
Do you really think a politician running for office is able to face his supporter in the eye telling them that we are all to blame and we should repent?
Of course not.
It's we the general populous that needs to wisen up and face our own mistakes and not ask who is to blame.
That's a silly proposition. The operative question is to what degree should individuals be blamed for the economic crisis. And it's rather obvious that it's the ones who had the most power to affect the situation are also the ones who deserve the most blame.
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Last edited by 4Tran; 2008-12-18 at 14:13.
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Old 2008-12-18, 13:54   Link #259
Yukinokesshou
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
China's strategic objective has always been to have enough capability to entertain a realistic chance of taking Taiwan.
... Which irks me to no end since the CCP is always harping on about "China's peaceful rise". With the new KMT government controlling Taiwan, you'd think that both sides would begin to make compromises and scale down the bellicosity, but so far it's only been Ma's administration (which I supported during the elections) bowing down to the CCP's demands whilst hundreds of missiles continue to be pointed at Taiwan. Peaceful reunion on equal terms, my a***; it's clear the CCP is eyeing Taiwan with greedy, power-hungry eyes.

I've always considered Taiwan to be culturally and ethnically part of the "Chinese nation" (中華) though not the political entity that is the PRC... but even with such a standpoint, I am utterly disillusioned by the current situation. I think most 中華民國 supporters will agree with me.
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Old 2008-12-18, 14:26   Link #260
Shadow Kira01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou View Post
So because it wasn't as "big" as the Holocaust, it should be overlooked and Japan is less at fault than Germany?
Japan do not do any holocausts. During the East Asian conflict, the original objective was to repel foreign western powers from colonizing people, but things turned out somewhat differently. Perhaps, a little tragic..

Quote:
Well, China is my nation and when have I ever been complimentary towards it? I criticise China as much as I criticise Japan, and have as little regard for hot-blooded Chinese nationalists as I do for Japanese nationalists.

You can argue that Hong Kong is my "nation" (even though it's not a nation) and it's only natural for a Hong Konger to have reservations about the Mainland. In that case, I have my criticisms of Hong Kong as well - namely, an overly materialistic, money-centric and selfish culture plus a general apathy towards politics - but because Hong Kong is not usually embroiled in "nationalistic" debates and gets along just fine with Japan and Korea, it is largely irrelevant in this discussion.

And yes, of course I'm to blame too, but there's really not much I can do about it apart from make noise (which I have done, on numerous occasions, by writing letters to the editor of the South China Morning Post).
Hong Kong can be considered a political tool of China or perhaps, more of a minion. The place can be considered a representative when it comes to foreign exchanges, such as business trades. If things cannot be solved amicably, then China goes on with its military threats which hopefully will not be necessary in China's point of view, since they are more focused on the economy this era, not war.
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