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Old 2012-07-26, 10:17   Link #1201
leukrota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Then who is it? Is he related to Touma? Is it Touya?
Perhaps my answer was a little misleading. As Jalvin said, we don't know yet who it was, just that there was someone before. This person appears at the end of NT4 and has a couple lines, but there's no clue about who it is or even if it's a man or woman. I am hoping there will be at least a hint in NT5... Though what I really want to read is a conversation between this person and Touma.

EDIT: Ahem... just disregard this post.

Last edited by leukrota; 2012-07-26 at 15:56.
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Old 2012-07-26, 10:40   Link #1202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota View Post
Perhaps my answer was a little misleading. As Jalvin said, we don't know yet who it was, just that there was someone before. This person appears at the end of NT4 and has a couple lines, but there's no clue about who it is or even if it's a man or woman. I am hoping there will be at least a hint in NT5... Though what I really want to read is a conversation between this person and Touma.
again, what are you talking about
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Old 2012-07-26, 12:20   Link #1203
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Originally Posted by Mr.Kyon View Post
again, what are you talking about
Oh shoot... I just re-read that part on the novel and seems like it's me who had it wrong all along... I apologize... Their speech was kinda misleading though... Damn, I thought there was a new person in that scene when there wasn't. Now I know it was Fiamma all along. I do wonder why was he not named during that conversation.

OK, correcting myself, it's been implied at the end of NT4 that there have been other generations wielding the Imagine Breaker... and that's it, who the hell knows what happened to the previous ones.

Last edited by leukrota; 2012-07-26 at 12:35.
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Old 2012-07-27, 00:25   Link #1204
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To be precise, it was implied that the Imagine Breaker itself has a feature that allows it to migrate from one person to another once its previous holder is no more. Because of that, many people started conjecturing that someone else possessed it before Kamijou.

Incidentally, it was also said that the Imagine Breaker is now strangely "attached" to Kamijou and it will always come back to him given the chance.
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Old 2012-07-27, 02:53   Link #1205
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Originally Posted by faiz blaster View Post
To be precise, it was implied that the Imagine Breaker itself has a feature that allows it to migrate from one person to another once its previous holder is no more. Because of that, many people started conjecturing that someone else possessed it before Kamijou.
Well, I can't see how would anyone know about that feature if Touma was the only one to have had it.
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Old 2012-08-22, 01:25   Link #1206
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This is something that I read while going through a few fan reviews of New Testament 4 in Chinese (Yeah, you know you're bored when you're reading impressions in other languages =_=)

How would you guys compare Kamijou Touma with Emiya Shiro? The Chinese posters came up with some interesting points, but I wonder what you guys think?
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Old 2012-08-22, 01:29   Link #1207
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^Well, contrary to Shiro's beliefs, Touma doesn't die when he gets killed.
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Old 2012-08-22, 01:30   Link #1208
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Right, now that we got that out of the way...
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Old 2012-08-22, 01:37   Link #1209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
This is something that I read while going through a few fan reviews of New Testament 4 in Chinese (Yeah, you know you're bored when you're reading impressions in other languages =_=)

How would you guys compare Kamijou Touma with Emiya Shiro? The Chinese posters came up with some interesting points, but I wonder what you guys think?
I think I made a comparison/reference between the two way back when I was still writing MMM... can't exactly remember what I wrote though

One of the posters there raised a good point, Shirou saves people because it's his ideal, because he wants to be a hero. Touma doesn't want to be a hero, he just does what he thinks is right. Less a ideal, more like Touma's resolve/nature (which Shirou also have shades of, his distortion and all). The two of them are similar, and not just because of the 'harem' genre protag commonality either.
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Old 2012-08-22, 01:47   Link #1210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
I think I made a comparison/reference between the two way back when I was still writing MMM... can't exactly remember what I wrote though

One of the posters there raised a good point, Shirou saves people because it's his ideal, because he wants to be a hero. Touma doesn't want to be a hero, he just does what he thinks is right. Less a ideal, more like Touma's resolve/nature (which Shirou also have shades of, his distortion and all). The two of them are similar, and not just because of the 'harem' genre protag commonality either.


Even though I had seen both Fate/Stay Night and Unlimited Blade Works, I can't really say I have a firm understanding of Shiro's character- I only remember how incredibly annoyed I was at the first 10 episodes of FSN. There's why just to be safe I'm asking around if there's more to his character (in the other media) and how different he is to Touma.
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Old 2012-08-22, 01:51   Link #1211
Kenju of the Right
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They have some really cool sets.....

Well yeah they are similar, in fact they both are my top favorite characters.

There are plenty of differences though
like with Shirou it was about whether his ideal was right or wrong(forgot which routes)
while with Touma it's about the resolve of his ideal

I remember Shirou getting owned in his arguments
Touma of course does the owning in the arguments

oh and then there's Shirou not wanting to let woman fight in fate route
while Touma of course punches lolis. Heck the guy even hit his own mother even though it was comedic
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He did not have the fortune needed to run a nation.
He did not have the deductive ability to resolve any incident from his easy chair.
He did not have the beauty to ruin a country with a smile.
He did not have the political power to change history with a snap of his fingers.
He did not have the unbelievable power of a Level 5.
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Last edited by Kenju of the Right; 2012-08-22 at 02:09.
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Old 2012-08-22, 02:08   Link #1212
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenju of the Right View Post
There are plenty of differences though
like with Shirou it was about whether his ideal was right or wrong(forgot which routes)
while with Touma it's about the resolve of his ideal

I remember Shirou getting owned in his arguments
Touma of course does the owning in the arguments

Elaborate ?
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Old 2012-08-22, 02:28   Link #1213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenju of the Right View Post
They have some really cool sets.....

Well yeah they are similar, in fact they both are my top favorite characters.

There are plenty of differences though
like with Shirou it was about whether his ideal was right or wrong(forgot which routes)
while with Touma it's about the resolve of his ideal

I remember Shirou getting owned in his arguments
Touma of course does the owning in the arguments

oh and then there's Shirou not wanting to let woman fight in fate route
while Touma of course punches lolis. Heck the guy even hit his own mother even though it was comedic
In Fate, he pretty much reinforces his ideals and became Archer.
In UBW, he realizes what his ideals will become, but gains a new resolve in wanting to achieve it.
In HA, he relinquishes it in favor for someone he wants to save.

Just my two cents.

Both Shirou and Touma have gotten their arguments owned. In Touma's case it comes with a severe beatdown (Acqua). But that's not to say of Shirou's too, but in my opinion he came out better than Touma did. (I blame that on Avalon and his ability to trace weapons, which pretty much gives him an edge for defense against Heroic spirits. Touma had to do far much better in order to gain a slight advantage against what would be equivalent to them in this series I suppose)

Though, when talking about their character...

Touma: Eh, wouldn't it be fine that way?
Shirou: What should I do? What would be good in this situation?

is how I would summarize them.
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Old 2012-08-22, 02:35   Link #1214
Kenju of the Right
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Assassin beat me to it,

although I wouldn't say Touma got owned in the argument against Acqua, it was just that in the terms of 'whose illusion got broken' it was a draw pretty much since neither side crumbled.
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He did not have extraordinary athletic ability.
He did not have the intellect or skill of a superhuman genius.
He did not have the fortune needed to run a nation.
He did not have the deductive ability to resolve any incident from his easy chair.
He did not have the beauty to ruin a country with a smile.
He did not have the political power to change history with a snap of his fingers.
He did not have the unbelievable power of a Level 5.
But…
Nevertheless… -

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Old 2012-08-22, 03:13   Link #1215
Kenju of the Right
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Speaking of the Illusion battles I like how most of them have some sort of twist

-Izzard didn't Touma a chance to talk

-Touma breaking his dad's illusion was a misunderstanding

-Ouma simply got beat by having his illusion broken

-Sherry had multiple ideals (one of my favs)

-Agnese pretty much self destructed

-Oriana's was pretty grey

-Biaggio was a lost cause so Touma didn't bother

-Vento's illusion was fake

Spoiler:


Not sure about some of the others..

Also yes, this means Touma can stop suicide bombers
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He did not have extraordinary athletic ability.
He did not have the intellect or skill of a superhuman genius.
He did not have the fortune needed to run a nation.
He did not have the deductive ability to resolve any incident from his easy chair.
He did not have the beauty to ruin a country with a smile.
He did not have the political power to change history with a snap of his fingers.
He did not have the unbelievable power of a Level 5.
But…
Nevertheless… -


Last edited by Kenju of the Right; 2012-08-22 at 03:25.
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Old 2012-08-22, 03:15   Link #1216
Chaos2Frozen
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Yeah technically Touma didn't lose to Aqua because technically they never argued Touma instinctively knew that Aqua isn't shaken by anything and didn't bother talking.

One of the Chinese posters mentioned something about because of his ideals, Shirou took a long time to realize that he can't save everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenju of the Right View Post
Not sure about some of the others..
Accelerator was the biggest one wasn't it? So big he had to break it TWICE.
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Old 2012-08-22, 03:30   Link #1217
Kenju of the Right
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Hm yeah and it certainly was the darkest

Quote:
Shirou took a long time to realize that he can't save everyone.
"Saving the world or protecting all life forms on the Earth…all that stuff is just on too great a scale. "(Touma from Vol SP)

jeesh he's either realistic(even tho I don't like that word) or idealistic
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He did not have extraordinary athletic ability.
He did not have the intellect or skill of a superhuman genius.
He did not have the fortune needed to run a nation.
He did not have the deductive ability to resolve any incident from his easy chair.
He did not have the beauty to ruin a country with a smile.
He did not have the political power to change history with a snap of his fingers.
He did not have the unbelievable power of a Level 5.
But…
Nevertheless… -


Last edited by Kenju of the Right; 2012-08-22 at 03:43.
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Old 2012-08-22, 04:04   Link #1218
Flere821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Even though I had seen both Fate/Stay Night and Unlimited Blade Works, I can't really say I have a firm understanding of Shiro's character- I only remember how incredibly annoyed I was at the first 10 episodes of FSN. There's why just to be safe I'm asking around if there's more to his character (in the other media) and how different he is to Touma.
... You mean you haven't played the FSN VN? I'll send you a link to the 'Let's Play' of that via PM. As a general rule original medium > anime, and you're missing out by not knowing what happens in the FSN VN.
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Old 2012-08-22, 04:07   Link #1219
Kenju of the Right
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Yes this should happen to everyone that hasn't played the VN.

You're doing god's work Flere
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He did not have extraordinary athletic ability.
He did not have the intellect or skill of a superhuman genius.
He did not have the fortune needed to run a nation.
He did not have the deductive ability to resolve any incident from his easy chair.
He did not have the beauty to ruin a country with a smile.
He did not have the political power to change history with a snap of his fingers.
He did not have the unbelievable power of a Level 5.
But…
Nevertheless… -

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Old 2012-08-22, 04:22   Link #1220
Master Assassin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
... You mean you haven't played the FSN VN? I'll send you a link to the 'Let's Play' of that via PM. As a general rule original medium > anime, and you're missing out by not knowing what happens in the FSN VN.
I didn't really go through the VN myself, but I had a college mate who basically did all the dirty work of... "playing" it for me. All I do is just knock into his room, say hello, and he'll spoil me the story from start to finish. Sometimes showing the CGs. Well, the HCGs are off-limits for me he says, but I don't need to know that myself.

I think if Touma and Shirou were to meet, while they both can work together given one common enemy, their everyday life will be a constant

Touma: ... Meh, it's fine isn't it?
Shirou: ... You're too laidback, Kamijou.
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Since we are all so trigger happy about certain behaviors that we do when talking about his works.

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